Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[Carringbush2010]

Right.

But my point is sometimes teams with soft draws finish higher than they should.

Then finals come around and you really see.

As for us and the Crows I can´t see either getting near Geelong or Pies and Crows are just lucky they have Hawthorn at home coming off Friday break going from Sydney, Melbourne to Adelaide.

This is a big call, me reckons that the crows and lions have arguably the better lists - certainly better than the Pies.

It's all about form, I wouldn't completely write off either team's ability to regather form enough to win the whole box and dice.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Home team staring at 0-4 in non-vic finals.
You get your chance and you **** it up.

 

[doppleganger]

An SA team losing another home final, surely nobody is surprised.

AFL gives the SA teams an arm chair ride in H&A, fun to watch them shit the bed in finals...despite being the "higher ranked" team.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

An SA team losing another home final, surely nobody is surprised.

AFL gives the SA teams an arm chair ride in H&A, fun to watch them shit the bed in finals...despite being the "higher ranked" team.

Hard to find any excuses for them. Yiu can excuse one bad night but to have two in a row is pretty average.

 

[doppleganger]

Hard to find any excuses for them. Yiu can excuse one bad night but to have two in a row is pretty average.

What about a quarter of a century of it?

SA teams benefit during H&A season from a large ground familiarity advantage. They don't choke, they just lose to stronger teams.

 

[sr36]

Hard to find any excuses for them. Yiu can excuse one bad night but to have two in a row is pretty average.

They're just not that good. Fixture flattered them.

If you have 11 games with a significant home ground advantage and there's 9 shit teams who you're going to beat away from home, you'll win more home and away game than equivalent teams who play a heap of neutral games. Then if you add in an easy draw you can finish top despite not being as good as several teams below you. Rankine out didn't help though.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

They're just not that good. Fixture flattered them.

If you have 11 games with a significant home ground advantage and there's 9 shit teams who you're going to beat away from home, you'll win more home and away game than equivalent teams who play a heap of neutral games. Then if you add in an easy draw you can finish top despite not being as good as several teams below you. Rankine out didn't help though.

They got a good draw as they should if as they were an average side last year. They get a tougher draw next year. Can’t argue in the end they have shown they were not that good. They are still young in their journey and I expect they will be better next year.
Can’t buy into this woe me the poor Victorian teams have such a tough lot in the AFL though. Because if that’s the case basically no non vic team ever is worthy of playing in finals.
Is that what you think?
May as well just have a VFL comp yes?

 

[doppleganger]

They got a good draw as they should if as they were an average side last year. They get a tougher draw next year. Can’t argue in the end they have shown they were not that good. They are still young in their journey and I expect they will be better next year.
Can’t buy into this woe me the poor Victorian teams have such a tough lot in the AFL though. Because if that’s the case basically no non vic team ever is worthy of playing in finals.
Is that what you think?

It again ain't Vic v Non-Vic.

A certain Vic team does still have a strong home ground.

Some Non-Vic teams, GC and GWS, play more games away from home than everyone else.

May as well just have a VFL comp yes?

Or how about the SA sooks give it a rest for a while.

 

[sr36]

They got a good draw as they should if as they were an average side last year. They get a tougher draw next year. Can’t argue in the end they have shown they were not that good. They are still young in their journey and I expect they will be better next year.
Can’t buy into this woe me the poor Victorian teams have such a tough lot in the AFL though. Because if that’s the case basically no non vic team ever is worthy of playing in finals.
Is that what you think?
May as well just have a VFL comp yes?

It's not woe me. All the teams in the 8 belonged there. It's just that the Vicbias stuff is bollocks. The ladder is an approximate ranking of who the best teams are - it's usually pretty decent. A year like this though where the top half teams were so even and so much better than the bottom half teams just emphasises that the home and away piffle that a lot of Non-Vic have bought into is a load of bollocks. Playing a lot of neutral games in your home state just isn't the big advantage that many seem so certain it is. It's just a bizarre concept to start with that a lot of neutral games adds up to a significant advantage - it's pretty obvious that a lot of neutral games adds up to a neutral result in terms of bias. How could it not?

Ultimately though, it's about being the best team. The advantages that get you the better players and off field staff are the advantages that matter. That's the Vicbias. Vic produces more of them and they disproportianately want to play/work at the better Vic teams.

 

[Grin]

There were only 3 Vic clubs in the top 8
Now there's 3 in the top 4

Just goes to prove, to make the finals as a Vic club, you've got to be so much better than our non Vic cousins. It's much harder to come 8th as a Vic club than it is for a non-Vic club to 'win'* the minor premier
If non-Vic clubs weren't so advantaged in the H&A season, you'd be more prepared for finals, but there's no way you pea hearted mob will ever give up your massive non-Vic bias in the H&A season, and there's no way you'll stop blaming Victorians for you being shit in the finals.

To give them the allusion that they have even more unsporting advantages in finals than they already get in the H&A season, we could give non-Vic club participation medals just for making finals, and tell them that they're much better than stupid cheat Vic-Bias premiership medallions. Perhaps then they'd stop loudly whinging all the time that Victorians aren't working hard enough to win them premierships that they don't deserve and haven't earned.

Useless pricks

 

[Grin]

I reckon a non-Vic club should be able to 'win' a final today

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Any argument for Vic bias was weakened last night. Umpires did everything they possibly could to get the Crows across the line.

 

[doppleganger]

The home and away piffle that a lot of Non-Vic have bought into is a load of bollocks. Playing a lot of neutral games in your home state just isn't the big advantage that many seem so certain it is. It's just a bizarre concept to start with that a lot of neutral games adds up to a significant advantage - it's pretty obvious that a lot of neutral games adds up to a neutral result in terms of bias. How could it not?

Because the SA muppets pretend a 1hr flight and what pillow you sleep on is important.

Home ground advantage was stronger in the VFL when it was suburban grounds and all players slept in their own bed for every game.

Travel is a red herring, ground familiarity advantage is King.

And during H&A, there are certain teams who enjoy the favourable ground familiarity advantage every season...would it surprise anyone that those teams dominate the H&A ladder.

Meanwhile Melbourne based clubs that don't travel much are usually down in the bottom 6, enjoying the "benefits" of neutral blockbusters.

Ultimately though, it's about being the best team. The advantages that get you the better players and off field staff are the advantages that matter.

Yep, the best teams find a way in September.

Hawks were the best team from 2011-15 - they travel more than the SA teams some years.

Tigers were the best team from 2017-20 - they won big finals in SA and QLD.

It would be great if the AFL addressed ground familiarity advantage that keeps giving certain teams inflated H&A ladder positions.

 

[sr36]

It would be great if the AFL addressed ground familiarity advantage that keeps giving certain teams inflated H&A ladder positions.

I don't think it matters.

Ideally, Gather Round should have a showdown between the Adelaide teams. Then every club would have an equal number of advantage and disadvantage games (skewed a bit by selling of home games). Then all you'd be left with is the vagaries of who you play twice. The attempt to give lower finishing teams an easier draw is also a load of bollocks. I don't know that doesn't cop more flack.

Crows we're a good team this year. However Rankine out left them with a bottom 4 midfield for the finals.And we all saw what that midfield delivered.

 

[joe444]

It would be great if the AFL addressed ground familiarity advantage that keeps giving certain teams inflated H&A ladder positions.

No it would be stupid. And unlike every other sporting competition in the known universe.

 

[joe444]

Crows we're a good team this year. However Rankine out left them with a bottom 4 midfield for the finals.And we all saw what that midfield delivered.

They literally have to be one of the most inflexible teams I've seen in a finals series. Watching last night I suddenly realised that there literally was nobody else they could run through the middle. Their Plan B seemed to consist of "Move Dawson".

Having Rankine in the team would have meant they could add "Move Rankine" to their arsenal of strategies. Not good.

I mean, I've loved the fact that about 10 Cats players cycle through CBAs. Could the Crows do that? Who with? Rachele? No way.

 

[HairyO]

I reckon a non-Vic club should be able to 'win' a final today

Bring on the draw !!

 

[doppleganger]

I don't think it matters.

Ideally, Gather Round should have a showdown between the Adelaide teams. Then every club would have an equal number of advantage and disadvantage games (skewed a bit by selling of home games). Then all you'd be left with is the vagaries of who you play twice.

The skewed a bit is the important bit.
Gather round skews it
Not having a strong unique home ground skews it
Not playing home games also skews it

SA teams have it all skewed in their favour

• Extra home game every year
• All home games at the one preferred ground
• It being a unique ground with a strong advantage
• away games at neutral grounds

The attempt to give lower finishing teams an easier draw is also a load of bollocks. I don't know that doesn't cop more flack.

Correct this is only a recent thing, no idea why people accept that the AFL decided to handicap the stronger teams.

Crows we're a good team this year. However Rankine out left them with a bottom 4 midfield for the finals.And we all saw what that midfield delivered.

Crows were a good team, their advantage in H&A enabled them to finish top2 again.

 

[STPer18]

The Big 3 Victorian teams Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood into prelim week, to be joined by one of the QLD Nepos.

 

[doppleganger]

No it would be stupid. And unlike every other sporting competition in the known universe.

?? Not many sporting competitions enter into stadium deals on behalf of the league and dictate where certain teams play games...that is what the AFL does.

Basic feature of most sporting competitions is that a team has 1 actual home ground / stadium and they play home games at that venue.

And the other feature is teams have equal number of home and away games.

IF there are multiple teams from the same city/state (like English Premier League where London has 8 teams some seasons, and NBA where California has 4 teams) nobody thinks Arsenal have an advantage over Newcastle because they play 26 games in London and Newcastle only get their 19 games in Newcastle or that the Clippers get an advantage over Denver due to more games in California.

But that is the VICBIAS victim position.

 

[Jables]

All the travel and "being used to the ground" stuff isn't a non-factor, but they are mainly used as excuses to paper over losing cultures.

Like we comfortably lost to Fremantle at Subiaco in 2010, we came beck better next year, and again the next year after that. 2015 Prelim, we beat them in Perth, similar margin as in 2010. Plenty of excuses along the way.

I don't understand why fans perpetuate such a soft culture, Vic Bias is embarrassing.

 

[doppleganger]

The Big 3 Victorian teams Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood into prelim week, to be joined by one of the QLD Nepos.

The big3 also are the 3 who have created the most advantageous ground familiarity position of the Victorian teams in 21st century post ground rationalisation era.

Hawks have played 12 games outside VIC in 2025, and only 10 at the MCG so far....they are the Melbourne team who chose travel to get a ground familiarity advantage. This is a smart move if you think ground familiarity is important, but moronic if you think a 1hr flight and what pillow you sleep on makes a difference.

Cats have their 10 games at Cat Park where they enjoy a ground familiarity advantage (lucked out being the only VIC team to keep a unique home ground) and will be there 7th game at the G in the PF, so very familiar at the neutral MCG.

Cats and Hawks are effectively non-Melbourne teams who are very familiar at the G.

Pies have the best H&A situation of all the Melbourne based teams, not selling games and playing the most at 1 venue.

 

[btdg]

?? Not many sporting competitions enter into stadium deals on behalf of the league and dictate where certain teams play games...that is what the AFL does.

Basic feature of most sporting competitions is that a team has 1 actual home ground / stadium and they play home games at that venue.

And the other feature is teams have equal number of home and away games.

IF there are multiple teams from the same city/state (like English Premier League where London has 8 teams some seasons, and NBA where California has 4 teams) nobody thinks Arsenal have an advantage over Newcastle because they play 26 games in London and Newcastle only get their 19 games in Newcastle or that the Clippers get an advantage over Denver due to more games in California.

But that is the VICBIAS victim position.

It's an incredible victim bias TBH.

Can you imagine if the Premier league came out next season and decided:

• Arsenal, Chelsea, and Fulham will now play all their home games at Wembley Stadium, but will still train at their own grounds
• Crystal Palace, Brentford, and any Championship teams based in London will move and play all their home games at a new, neutral 55,000 seat stadium located near the river in the city (Riverside stadium) that is owned and operated by the league (who give them a very unfavourable financial deal as a result). Most of these teams will sell 1-2 home games each year and instead play at a neutral site in Glasgow or Dublin just to stay profitable.
• West Ham and Tottenham will play 'home games' at Wembley for matches against the Wembley teams plus Man U/Man City and Liverpool, and will play 'home games' at Riverside for matches against the Riverside teams and any other non-London teams
• All the teams outside London keep their home grounds, but take a share of the increased profits and revenue that come from consolidating stadia in London.
• Each season will now be 18 home, 18 away games, and then each year there will be two 'magic rounds' where all games are played at Old Trafford/The Emirates (meaning Man City/Utd get 20 home and 18 away games).
• The FA Cup final will continue to be played at Wembley Stadium as it always has

It's pretty clear this system is biased AGAINST Man City/Utd, and in favour of West Ham and Tottenham, right? I mean, the two Manchester teams have to travel SO much further than everyone else, and it is just SO unfair that they have to play the FA cup final at Wembley once every 10 years or so.

In fact, we should probably let the two Manchester teams have some exemptions from the salary cap and payments rules, beacuase we all know it is so much harder to keep and retain players if they have to live in miserable Manchester, and everyone knows that the players all just want to move to London. Sure, Man City have won 4 of the last 5 titles, while Tottenham and West Ham have been mired in the bottom half of the ladder forever, but it is just SO much EASIER being a big London club...

 

[greatwhiteshark]

It's not woe me. All the teams in the 8 belonged there. It's just that the Vicbias stuff is bollocks. The ladder is an approximate ranking of who the best teams are - it's usually pretty decent. A year like this though where the top half teams were so even and so much better than the bottom half teams just emphasises that the home and away piffle that a lot of Non-Vic have bought into is a load of bollocks. Playing a lot of neutral games in your home state just isn't the big advantage that many seem so certain it is. It's just a bizarre concept to start with that a lot of neutral games adds up to a significant advantage - it's pretty obvious that a lot of neutral games adds up to a neutral result in terms of bias. How could it not?

Ultimately though, it's about being the best team. The advantages that get you the better players and off field staff are the advantages that matter. That's the Vicbias. Vic produces more of them and they disproportianately want to play/work at the better Vic teams.

Honestly mate I thought we stopped talking Vic bias about a year ago.

 

[sr36]

Honestly mate I thought we stopped talking Vic bias about a year ago.

You did. Most others not so much. And living in SA I'm always surrounded by it.

Apparently it was a Vicbias stitch up for Rankine to get a similar penalty to everyone else whose done the same thing recently.

Apparently it's a combination of Vicbias and coaching incompetence that a midfield of Riley OBrien, Berry. Peatling and Soligo didn't win a flag.

It won't be long before the details are forgotten and this will be about a Vic team beating the top team due to less travel throughout the year. . Despite it being the Hawks 12th interstate match comp whilst Adelaide played 10.