Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXIX

[Blue_Fusion]

He wanted to win a flag, that’s the right kind of selfish

Def the right attitude (as you'd expect from most players)

But disagree with the way he wanted us to go about it.

We were in a ****en prelim where he admitted that his poor leadership impacted the result of that game.

We didn't chase a big name in 2023 off season, but we didn't need to.. we were clear 2nd on the ladder with Sydney fading by the time we met GWS in round 17.

The fade out from there on wasn't because we didn't chase a big name, it was because of a multitude of factors including:

• Selection integrity
• Injuries
• Players underperforming

His "leadership" lead to him inserting himself into an ef where it was obvious he had no business being there having missed the whole season. So what did he take from his poor 2023 leadership? Nothing.

2024 off season, had we "gone all in" and chased Houston, where would we be right now? I can tell you for a fact, it won't be in next week's gf...

He came on as sub in rd1 and contributed to costing us the game. He was a liability in the games he played this year too... Why blame that on not chasing a couple of big names?

Looks to me like he's got sour grapes that he couldn't finish his career the way he wanted to... it's sad because he did go through a lot and was inspirational how he would fight back, but the injuries had accumulated and in the end it is what it is. When you can no longer perform, you become a liability and have to call time.

 

[Kruezing]

After last night, **** no!

Would love to bring Elliot across that’s about it

 

[RPCB]

Would love to bring Elliot across that’s about it

I hope we can develop our own Elliot.

 

[Coops93]

Doc should never have made himself available for that final last year coming off that knee
And WE shouldn’t have selected him

Let’s hope all these dumb decisions are a thing of the past

It was a calculated call that didnt go the right way.

David Swallow could easily have gone the same way, but Dimma basically said openly he was picked solely to give the boys an emotional boost. I'd say the Doch selection was similar, but alas it didn't appear to give anyone a boost.

In hindsight it looks bad. If there was a lift and we win, it's being praised instead.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Would love to bring Elliot across that’s about it

You do realise he turns 34 next year?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

It was a calculated call that didnt go the right way.

David Swallow could easily have gone the same way, but Dimma basically said openly he was picked solely to give the boys an emotional boost. I'd say the Doch selection was similar, but alas it didn't appear to give anyone a boost.

In hindsight it looks bad. If there was a lift and we win, it's being praised instead.

Nothing like it. Swallow at least played 9 games this year, Suns had never played finals so an experienced head was needed.

Doc missed the entire season sans the first quarter and a bit v Lions in rd 0 and coming off a knee reconstruction...

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I’m pretty certain it was the club itself saying this, not sure if it was GW or Voss though.
But definitely came from the club

Ok yeah, I thought it was an ITK, but I was certain someone said it.

 

[macky99]

JSOS will be the most difficult to cover. We have a lot of forward options, and pitto is good enough to carry the load, especially if HOK is played forward.

Sorry l don't rate Pitto. Very one dimensional ruckman.
HOK is a long way off being a forward at afl level.
We are kidding ourselves replacing the loss of those 3.

 

[tarczonandjane]

The same sort cap Brisbane had when they lost the prelim to go out and get Dunkley, McKenna and Gunston, the same one they’ve got, that has them about to sign 2 free agents at $1M each.

The same salary cap that Collingwood had when they won the GF to go and get Schulz, then a season later go out and get 2 players at $1.7M between them.

The same salary cap that Geelong had when they lost the GF and went out and spent $1M on Cameron

The same salary cap that Hawthorn used at the end of last season, bringing in a FA and a big trade totalling about $1.8M

Most have slowly come to the realisation that we absolutely stuffed our cap, all these other clubs can improve the list year on year, yet we have no room, season after season.

Good clubs have salary cap space because they are good clubs. (Though I still think Geelong’s salary cap stinks to high heaven).

If you are a poorly run club:

- you fail to attract free agents of top quality (e.g. Bailey Smith, Jeremy Cameron)

- the free agents you attract are middling players and they demand higher salary because they’re not going to a club which can guarantee any sort of success (McGovern, Williams, Ben McKay)

- you have to pay more to keep the stars you’ve got (Mac Andrew, NWM, TDK on his final extension with us)

It is a really hard ship to turn around. To top it off, the one loophole which allowed you to do it was father sons (Daicos x 2 and Moore), but the AFL is about to turn off the tap (if we believe reports).

Anyway, the good clubs are able to attract star players because:

• they haven’t got middling players on inflated contracts
• the players they’ve developed haven’t had to have their contracts inflated to be able to keep them

 

[manang magoos]

Isaac Quaynor the only sign of IQ at Collingwood...

Your on a roll Ferris

 

[Crippa#9]

You do realise he turns 34 next year?

So. Dangerfield is 35.
Zorko is 37 in February.

These two shape up as the two most important players next week.

Age is overrated if they’re having an impact. I’d be ecstatic to bring in Elliott on a 2 yr deal.

 

[Kruezing]

You do realise he turns 34 next year?

Many happy returns … would be a great get for a couple of years

 

[Kruezing]

I hope we can develop our own Elliot.

Me too and I think Elliot could help us do that

 

[The Bighouse]

I think we’ve been a little bit a victim of circumstance with the big contracts we’ve had to offer.

We’ve had some young, prodigiously talented, key position players who’ve demonstrated an ability to be match winners as they’ve come out of contracts. The whole point of bottoming out was so we could draft these types of players so you don’t just let them go when they’re hitting their peak.

Other clubs have been willing to offer a king’s ransom so you can only low ball them so much in order to keep them.

Unfortunately we’ve gotten nowhere near the reliable, match winning standards you’d expect from players on these contracts for various reasons.

And then match committee are somewhat hamstrung at selection when you’ve got a player like Curnow putting in half hearted efforts but the next bloke in line is a kid that is nowhere near AFL standard. So you keep picking Curnow which erodes any pretence that adhering to team first standards is necessary to get picked every week.

It’s been a disaster to not capitalise on the prime Cripps years at all.

Reckon there was a bit of feeling that it was just going to happen as well.
Got to work harder than that boys, than just click your fingers because you’ve been in the system for so long.

 

[Coops93]

Nothing like it. Swallow at least played 9 games this year, Suns had never played finals so an experienced head was needed.

Doc missed the entire season sans the first quarter and a bit v Lions in rd 0 and coming off a knee reconstruction...

Being selected for an emotional lift is nothing alike? Swallow played with a knee injury, he wasn't 100% fit. On top of that, his form wasnt close to warranting selection, either.

He was picked not on form, and he was not close to fully fit. It was solely on feel good factor. Seems pretty similar to me.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I think Austin has been a mess on so many issues and I think he will be sacked by years end, the tough part is how much is Austin and how much is Agresta.

A previous poster said Doc was more critical of list management and so all the players should, if they se other clubs going all in for a flag and bringing in good players and then see us actually trading away depth players and bringing in not much, then of course they would be pissed.

We have gone backwards because after several years we still can’t get a healthy list and for several years we kept trading out depth and bringing in stuff all, whilst others around us did the opposite.

Nup. To me that would just be indicative of the "saviour/messiah" mentality pervading the playing group. Anyone can improve their kicking if they're willing to work at it. Anyone can improve their marking. Their running. Even decision-making, to an extent. These are all trainable skills. All well and good for the players to want the club to bring in more talent, but if they're expecting new recruits to come in and win them a flag then they're delusional. Our list is loaded with talent, that's never been the problem. The problem is the talent choosing when (and when not) to show up.

 

[The Bighouse]

Or maybe we should listen to what a senior leader that's just left the club is saying about the culture?

He's not a Kane a Cornes, soundbite a minute guy. He's smart and thoughtful, he wouldn't be throwing shit without reason.

Everyone and their dog can see something had been cooked in the club, why call someone discussing it bitter and selfish? Maybe we consider what he's trying to say instead.

Players (senior) showing dissent at not getting their way perhaps…?
Time to rid that and get back on course..

 

[ferrisb]

Re players wanting to go 'all in'

Was it a bit oblivious to the list build and salary cap? Yes

Was it an overreaction to losing a bunch of perpetually injured players? Yes

Was it a little selfish? Yes

Was it really disappointing that some players seemingly threw in the towel? Yes

Did we need to take a couple of steps backwards in order to reset the list for the future? Yes

BUT despite all of that, is it understandable that players might be disappointed that after years of being useless and finally making it to the edge of finals that the club seemingly decided we weren't really good enough? Absolutely yes

 

[The Bighouse]

Re players wanting to go 'all in'

Was it a bit oblivious to the list build and salary cap? Yes

Was it an overreaction to losing a bunch of perpetually injured players? Yes

Was it a little selfish? Yes

Was it really disappointing that some players seemingly threw in the towel? Yes

Did we need to take a couple of steps backwards in order to reset the list for the future? Yes

BUT despite all of that, is it understandable that players might be disappointed that after years of being useless and finally making it to the edge of finals that the club seemingly decided we weren't really good enough? Absolutely yes

Because the senior core weren’t good enough..the leaders of the pact ( in song) unable to lead.

 

[The Bighouse]

And yet GC are being assessed as needing to bolster their midfield outside Rowell and Anderson.

Much like us, a point of difference midfielder required. Flanders is seen as a plodder.
Steven King will likely tempt him for his preferred midfield time.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Being selected for an emotional lift is nothing alike? Swallow played with a knee injury, he wasn't 100% fit, either. On top of that, his form wasnt close to warranting selection, either.

He was picked not on form, and he was not close to fully fit. It was solely on feel good factor. Seems pretty similar to me.

There's a similarity on the emotional side, fair enough. But Doc wasn't just an emotional hit selection... if he was, he would've been subbed out when we were down 0-60 ...

Swallow, like I said, had at least played during the season and was an experienced head the Suns needed in their first finals game.

 

[FairKouta]

Merrett is a Zorko type I’d give him 5 years

 

[The Bighouse]

Merrett is a Zorko type I’d give him 5 years

Was looking at us a few years ago.
Same with Oliver.
**by some reports.

 

[Matty411]

Vossy or Charlie should have a coffee with the Daicos bros just to piss Fly and co off.

 

[CoachB]

Would love to bring Elliot across that’s about it

Would need to bring Lipinski with him, otherwise he will never see the ball!