Rules Non-footy state academy access

[randyzany]

You're missing the bigger picture though.

The primary objective of northern academies isn't equalisation, it's to grow the overall talent pool.

This is absolutely critical when you consider the taken pool in Melbourne Metro area is shrinking.

You're entitled to your opinion and you may well be right (most fans outside Qld and NSW don't think you are) but to most footy fans it is clear that it is to keep Qld and NSW clubs always competitive (Top 8 and making it to September consistently) to grow the game and gain more fans in states where footy isn't the number 1 sport, thereby increasing overall profit.

Makes sense as you can't grow the game anymore in Vic, WA, SA, etc.. so the AFL from purely a financial perspective sees Qld and NSW as top priority.

Not to mention how much bigger a population these states have than WA and SA (and NSW is even bigger than Vic) and it's understandable from a commercial standpoint why the AFL gives them as many concessions as they do.

 

[borrat]

Ty Gallop

end thread

 

[Cmarsh]

Will Tasmania have an academy?

 

[Cmarsh]

It will be Intetesting to see what happens with GCS academy product Jed Walter this off season. If he ends up at a Victorian club, it would be an example of an academy growing the talent pool for the overall league and a Victorian club's benefit.

 

[mpal6]

It will be Intetesting to see what happens with GCS academy product Jed Walter this off season. If he ends up at a Victorian club, it would be an example of an academy growing the talent pool for the overall league and a Victorian club's benefit.

Brisbane Lions academy has been doing it for a while, it doesn't get mentioned that's all.

Aliir Aliir
Samson Ryan
Corey Wagner
Ben Keays
Tom Fullarton
Mabior Chol

 

[philthy05]

You're missing the bigger picture though.

The primary objective of northern academies isn't equalisation, it's to grow the overall talent pool.

This is absolutely critical when you consider the taken pool in Melbourne Metro area is shrinking.

This is incorrect. It can not be factually true.

If the primary objective was to grow the talent pool, teams would not need to have access to players to do it. They would run academies without access because that fulfills your stated primary objective.

The primary objective must be to make those teams competitive, and the secondary objective to grow the talent pool.

Brisbane Lions academy has been doing it for a while, it doesn't get mentioned that's all.

Aliir Aliir
Samson Ryan
Corey Wagner
Ben Keays
Tom Fullarton
Mabior Chol

This comes across as entirely naive to how other clubs have a hand in developing draftees that are on other clubs lists.

You don’t think wanganeen Milera was at a Sa clubs nga and the same for hundreds of other afl footballers and other clubs around the league?

 

[mpal6]

This comes across as entirely naive to how other clubs have a hand in developing draftees that are on other clubs lists.

You don’t think wanganeen Milera was at a Sa clubs nga and the same for hundreds of other afl footballers and other clubs around the league?

I'm not making an argument for other clubs. I'm making my argument only to those people saying academy is talent hoarding for northern clubs and no one else could access them except these clubs - thanks to academy.

 

[WillHayward]

This is incorrect. It can not be factually true.

If the primary objective was to grow the talent pool, teams would not need to have access to players to do it. They would run academies without access because that fulfills your stated primary objective.

The primary objective must be to make those teams competitive, and the secondary objective to grow the talent pool.





This comes across as entirely naive to how other clubs have a hand in developing draftees that are on other clubs lists.

You don’t think wanganeen Milera was at a Sa clubs nga and the same for hundreds of other afl footballers and other clubs around the league?

The primary objective is to increase the talent pool of players overall by producing more players in Qld and NSW.

The reason they then give access to the teams is because they believe the "pathway" to a professional team in your area is the best way to increase the talent pool.

Now I'm not saying I agree with this but that's the fundamental underlying belief that drives the "pathway" model of academics AND access.

But I agree with you at some point they can probably remove the access part but we aren't there yet .

Maybe in ten years if Qld is providing 20% of draftees then they can reduce/remove the access at that stage.

NSW is still hardly producing any draftees at all.

The idea is that the northern academy players wouldn't have otherwise played the game at all without a pathway so they increase the overall pool of available players which helps the whole competition.

Without these "new" players then you would see more SA kids having to go and play in the Qld and NSW clubs to fill numbers.

By having Northern Academies more SA kids can stay at SA clubs.

Is that a good thing? Or you prefer SA kids head to Qld to play?

 

[Handsuper47]

I want to pose this question because we’re seeing these sides make finals and even grand finals now.

Before fans lose their minds I’m not saying we remove this access, but we have to look at the logic of the argument it’s based on.


GWS Sydney Gold Coast and Brisbane finals , grand final appearances , gf wins versus non-vic trad footy states like the Sa and wa teams. It looks like it will become even more uneven in the next 5+ years.


If we accept these teams need academy access in order to be competitive, at what point do we accept they’re now competitive and why should they still keep that same access, or be able to use it as a reason to keep that access?

At what point does the same logic (needing access to all homegrown talent like those non-trad state teams get) apply to the Sa and Wa teams.

The entire reason the academies are there is because they're in rugby heartland states and if the academies weren't there, all those players would not be playing AFL. This doesn't apply to SA and WA teams because they are AFL states - also, in 2017, 2020, 2023, 2024, 2025 there were SA teams in the top four and they couldn't even make a GF. Why on earth are you guys begging for handouts when really you're just mentally weak?

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Brisbane Lions academy has been doing it for a while, it doesn't get mentioned that's all.

Aliir Aliir
Samson Ryan
Corey Wagner
Ben Keays
Tom Fullarton
Mabior Chol

Don't think Allir was ever in the Lions academy. Was recruited from Mt Gravatt.

 

[Elixuh]

Don't think Allir was ever in the Lions academy. Was recruited from Mt Gravatt.

He’s listed as an academy graduate on the website

 

[philthy05]

The primary objective is to increase the talent pool of players overall by producing more players in Qld and NSW.

The reason they then give access to the teams is because they believe the "pathway" to a professional team in your area is the best way to increase the talent pool.

Now I'm not saying I agree with this but that's the fundamental underlying belief that drives the "pathway" model of academics AND access.

But I agree with you at some point they can probably remove the access part but we aren't there yet .

Maybe in ten years if Qld is providing 20% of draftees then they can reduce/remove the access at that stage.

NSW is still hardly producing any draftees at all.

The idea is that the northern academy players wouldn't have otherwise played the game at all without a pathway so they increase the overall pool of available players which helps the whole competition.

Without these "new" players then you would see more SA kids having to go and play in the Qld and NSW clubs to fill numbers.

By having Northern Academies more SA kids can stay at SA clubs.

Is that a good thing? Or you prefer SA kids head to Qld to play?

No. If the primary goal was to increase the talent pool clubs do not need access to do that. This is a fact the same as the sky is blue. They only need access to make themselves competitive, if the argument is they cannot be competitive without them, which had some basis in truth at the time.

Increasing the talent pool can only be a secondary goal.

As for your last point , it makes very little sense. Port and crows have no more access to local talent than they did before academies. Our homegrown to interstate player ratios would be the same.

Brisbane signing Ty Gallup or Marshall doesn’t mean port and crows are gonna have access to more local players.

The entire reason the academies are there is because they're in rugby heartland states and if the academies weren't there, all those players would not be playing AFL. This doesn't apply to SA and WA teams because they are AFL states - also, in 2017, 2020, 2023, 2024, 2025 there were SA teams in the top four and they couldn't even make a GF. Why on earth are you guys begging for handouts when really you're just mentally weak?

1. I’ve never said explicitly we should completely ditch academies. I’ve asked a question about where we draw the line at a clubs competitiveness and where other clubs should come under consideration if they’re struggling for the same reasons these clubs were given academies.

2. does it matter if wa and sa are “traditional footy states” if they’re not producing enough talent to be competitive?

The afl has had teams in nsw / qld for over 40 years now and won multiple gfs in both states. At what point does it not matter any more?

3. Who is begging for handouts ? Me? Where have I asked that ?

 

[WillHayward]

No. If the primary goal was to increase the talent pool clubs do not need access to do that. This is a fact the same as the sky is blue. They only need access to make themselves competitive, if the argument is they cannot be competitive without them, which had some basis in truth at the time.

Increasing the talent pool can only be a secondary goal.

As for your last point , it makes very little sense. Port and crows have no more access to local talent than they did before academies. Our homegrown to interstate player ratios would be the same.

Brisbane signing Ty Gallup or Marshall doesn’t mean port and crows are gonna have access to more local players.




1. I’ve never said explicitly we should completely ditch academies. I’ve asked a question about where we draw the line at a clubs competitiveness and where other clubs should come under consideration if they’re struggling for the same reasons these clubs were given academies.

2. does it matter if wa and sa are “traditional footy states” if they’re not producing enough talent to be competitive?

The afl has had teams in nsw / qld for over 40 years now and won multiple gfs in both states. At what point does it not matter any more?

3. Who is begging for handouts ? Me? Where have I asked that ?

But I've heard key AFL figures talk about the pathway multiple times. They talk about it all the time.

They talk about how kids in NSW and Qld need to need to see a clear pathway to playing professional football in their own state . You can't just deny this. It's a fact (and you keep saying you like facts).

I think you're dealing with some serious copium.

You are missing the major point. Australia has changed dramatically. Especially Melbourne metro. The AFL can't rely on Melbourne metro as the footy factory to fill 20 AFL teams going forward.

Melbourne has a fertility rate of just 1.49 and dramatically changing demographics. How many indian kids are being drafted? Then there is competition from other sports, lack of ovals in the inner city etc etc.

Unless we get more players drafted from Qld and NSW we won't be able to fill 20 teams with high end talent.

This is way more urgent than your imagined conspiracy that this is all about equalisation and favouritism.

Let's just respectfully agree to disagree.

You can keep believing the AFL is deliberately conspiring against WA and SA if you like.

 

[randyzany]

But I've heard key AFL figures talk about the pathway multiple times. They talk about it all the time.

They talk about how kids in NSW and Qld need to need to see a clear pathway to playing professional football in their own state . You can't just deny this. It's a fact (and you keep saying you like facts).

I think you're dealing with some serious copium.

You are missing the major point. Australia has changed dramatically. Especially Melbourne metro. The AFL can't rely on Melbourne metro as the footy factory to fill 20 AFL teams going forward.

Melbourne has a fertility rate of just 1.49 and dramatically changing demographics. How many indian kids are being drafted? Then there is competition from other sports, lack of ovals in the inner city etc etc.

Unless we get more players drafted from Qld and NSW we won't be able to fill 20 teams with high end talent.

This is way more urgent than your imagined conspiracy that this is all about equalisation and favouritism.

Let's just respectfully agree to disagree.

You can keep believing the AFL is deliberately conspiring against WA and SA if you like.

Is the Sydney and Brisbane demographics all that different to Melbourne along with aforementioned fertility rate? I mean I understand that given that both those cities are not traditional footy states that the potential to unearth new footy talent is far greater than Vic for obvious reasons. Vic, Tas, WA and SA have been already tapped for talent as much as it is possible.

But it's proven a tough nut to crack considering how many decades those clubs have been operating in Qld and NSW and footy is unfortunately still lagging way behind the thugbies.

Never-the-less I don't think those factors (demographics and fertility rates) are the real reason behind the heavy promotion of the game up there to detriment of every other club not in Qld and NSW. To me it just sounds like something you've concocted to try convince everyone not from Qld and NSW that the academies aren't there to benefit the 4 clubs residing in those states but because it is essential to the game overall. Sorry but I'm not buying it. lulz

 

[philthy05]

But I've heard key AFL figures talk about the pathway multiple times. They talk about it all the time.

They talk about how kids in NSW and Qld need to need to see a clear pathway to playing professional football in their own state . You can't just deny this. It's a fact (and you keep saying you like facts).

I think you're dealing with some serious copium.

You are missing the major point. Australia has changed dramatically. Especially Melbourne metro. The AFL can't rely on Melbourne metro as the footy factory to fill 20 AFL teams going forward.

Melbourne has a fertility rate of just 1.49 and dramatically changing demographics. How many indian kids are being drafted? Then there is competition from other sports, lack of ovals in the inner city etc etc.

Unless we get more players drafted from Qld and NSW we won't be able to fill 20 teams with high end talent.

This is way more urgent than your imagined conspiracy that this is all about equalisation and favouritism.

Let's just respectfully agree to disagree.

You can keep believing the AFL is deliberately conspiring against WA and SA if you like.

Not sure what that has to do with my points / questions.

The afl promoting their shit doesnt mean anything in the context of what I’m talking about.

That means they’re sprinkling their pathways , it doesn’t mean growing the talent pool is the clubs primary concern rather than a secondary concern.

 

[randyzany]

Not sure what that has to do with my points / questions.

The afl promoting their shit doesnt mean anything in the context of what I’m talking about.

That means they’re sprinkling their pathways , it doesn’t mean growing the talent pool is the clubs primary concern rather than a secondary concern.

Number 1 concern: MONEY



DAYLIGHT



Everything else

It's a good shifty sly way to try to justify the academies, I gotta give Willy that. lol

 

[The Educator]

You're entitled to your opinion and you may well be right (most fans outside Qld and NSW don't think you are) but to most footy fans it is clear that it is to keep Qld and NSW clubs always competitive (Top 8 and making it to September consistently) to grow the game and gain more fans in states where footy isn't the number 1 sport, thereby increasing overall profit.

Makes sense as you can't grow the game anymore in Vic, WA, SA, etc.. so the AFL from purely a financial perspective sees Qld and NSW as top priority.

Not to mention how much bigger a population these states have than WA and SA (and NSW is even bigger than Vic) and it's understandable from a commercial standpoint why the AFL gives them as many concessions as they do.

The academies are also a counter weight to free agency and the go home effect. I.e. having 2 clubs in each of those states when they barely have the talent for one means that they are always going to be at a disadvantage where players can more relatively freely.

The academies also create a deepening cultural link in non traditional regions for the game with hundreds of new families each year with a special connection to the club (and their friends and extended families etc)

 

[fnerd]

The academies are also a counter weight to freeency and the go home effect. I.e. having 2 clubs in each of those states when they barely have the talent for one means that they are always going to be at a disadvantage where players can more relatively freely.

****n lol

You mean how Brisbane enticed Lachie Neale from a “traditional “ football state team or picked up “big four “ Victorian club Essendon royalty in Joe Daniher?

What about highly sort after Victorian Josh Dunkley?

And just this year got another Essendon player in Draper and have gone one step further in enticing the captain of the richest football club in the game from wa (traditional football state thingy again!) to join them?

Or how about your own side with noble or Ben long ,Rioli and now apparently Charlie curnows happy to move to Queensland??

But hey yeah I get it…12/13 years ago Brisbane had the “go home 5” (lol- like it was some grand tragic event)
I mean we can’t possibly ever/like never ever ever have that happen to northern club again can we??.. oh the humanity and injustice!!
-of course despite numerous clubs ALL from football states having similar happen over the journey since- you know the usual ups and downs of being in a competition

Honestly tho, the biggest take for me on this issue is that you northern club supporters seem to genuinely believe the utter shit dribbling out of your mouths when it comes to this issue in the form of that you think if you say “but but but it’s for the good of the game!!!” Enough times people might actually believe you instead of obvious -you only want to keep the status quo because it currently benefits your club …

 

[Cleric]

It depends which way you look at what the academies are doing.
In reality they are producing extra talent for the competition, meaning they are additional over the traditional states.
Just because Gold Coast produces some excellent kids, doesnt mean the quality of kids from Vic, SA or WA goes down.
When the northern states take a local player, it means a kid from the traditional states is left on the draft board for a team from a traditional state to take.

We want to see a higher % of good talent from the academies in those interstate teams for a couple of reasons.
1. It helps reduce the loss of players due to homesickness.
2. If creates a NSW or Qld feel and culture in those teams.

Now the issue is this, how do you equal it up.
As a South Australian and a Crows supporter I want to see more talented SA kids playing for the Crows for exactly the same reason as I expressed for the Northern states.
One overlooked issue is that kids from SA and WA have to carry the most responsibility to move interstate.
The majority of talented NSW and Qld kids get to stay home due to the academies.
A kid from Victoria has a 55% chance of staying home and playing for a Vic club, while SA and WA kids only have an 11% chance of staying in their home state to play AFL.
Thats unfair for the kids from SA and WA. More of the quality ones should have an opportunity to stay home and play.

The other thing I think is that to even out the advantage the northern clubs get from getting the pick of the talent from their academies is that they should have to take more of them each year.
They cant expect to get the best kids out of their academy at a discount, and then when they dont have a great year with academy talent, then get to pick the eyes out of the kids from the rest of the country.
You even up their advantage by making them take more kids who arnt as highly regarded.

 

[Rail King]

Only 1 team has ever won a premiership with an academy and that was Brisbane last year.

Perhaps we should be more focused on why the same Victorian clubs keep winning the flag every year.

Whenever these threads come up I can't help but think of this quote

“If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.” - Lyndon B Johnson

The academy discussion is just a distraction from the real issue, a distraction used by the big Victorian clubs who don't want people thinking about how they continue to win every year.

Wow. Which piece of idiocy do you even look at first here.

 

[Bjo187]

Footy is more than Victoria and Northern states which is the point of this OP.

As a knee jerk to the go home four or whatever it was we have this system.

And the dearth of talent coming out of WA lends legitimacy to this question.

Dearth of talent outta w.a? They're producing practically nothing these days, it's disgraceful for what's meant to be the second biggest footy state, the lack of talent they have been producing lately. Whoever is in charge over there should be fired.