List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[BucketsandBanger]

Just saw him 5 minutes ago mate, he is insanely weak. Absolute beginner levels of strength.

If he has put on size I would hate to see what he looked like before.

Also, if he is allowed at the club maybe somebody should ask him why he is training at a crap commercial gym.

Maybe the club gym is closed today for some reason and he’s going there cause he’s really committed to his rehab program.

Maybe he looks a bit confused cause he’s not used to training in a commercial environment.

Maybe this is the most hysterical, bed wetting post of all time.

By the way for you to be able to tell exactly his strength from a quick once over, you are genius and should monetise that somehow.

 

[Train12]

Just saw him 5 minutes ago mate, he is insanely weak. Absolute beginner levels of strength.

If he has put on size I would hate to see what he looked like before.

Also, if he is allowed at the club maybe somebody should ask him why he is training at a crap commercial gym.

Not much positivity comes from you saintbill

 

[jwikked]

Was surprised to see Max King at a Bayside gym this morning. Must be in the mandatory 8 weeks away from the club period.

I’ve heard about this, and if I was a player I’d have it written into my contract that I would have access to the gym the whole year. I reckon it’s crazy that these guys have to go elsewhere if they want to do weights and gym stuff

 

[Yawkey way]

First year players get kept as a mark down. Guys who have been stars get kept as where they started. Move those around and it sorts itself out.

I'd have us grouped as

A grade- Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas, Macrae, Marshall, Higgins maybe, Hall definitely close to it.

B- King, Steele, Hill, Wood, Owens, Windy, Wilson, Garcia maybe, Sharman, Phillipou maybe, Butler maybe if fit, Webster.

C to D- Howard, Clark, Stocker, Henry, Hammer, Tauru, Keeler, maybe Dodson and Boxshall, Dow, Byrnes, Collard, LOC, Hastie, Trav, Jones etc.

I think you’re pretty generous with the rankings.

We have 3 A graders , Wilkie, Sinclair and Nas.

 

[BrutThough]

You would think with the money he has he would have his own gym at home .
Just on Max ,see his injury report has him back training before Christmas but also read he hasn’t run for 3-4 months .
It is proven there is a direct link in performance if you start Day 1 of pre season.
If he coming off the injury and low base ,not joining in until mid December ish ,I wouldnt be pinning any hopes on a big 50 plus goal year from Max.
Personally I think he is an injury away from finishing up.You can only go to the well so many times.
I would be developing a game plan around a tall forward ,but not necessarily Max.Just can’t see him getting his body right to do the job needed.
Trading Marshall, for anything less than an exceptional win is crazy talk.But if you can have both playing in tandem ,it’s a bloody hard match up,where they both compliment each other.

After shoulder-gate, the club wouldnt have Max doing anything significant pre-christmas anyway.

He'll be doing intense running like everyone else but be on his own seperate program given his history.

 

[Ricmel]

First year players get kept as a mark down. Guys who have been stars get kept as where they started. Move those around and it sorts itself out.

I'd have us grouped as

A grade- Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas, Macrae, Marshall, Higgins maybe, Hall definitely close to it.

B- King, Steele, Hill, Wood, Owens, Windy, Wilson, Garcia maybe, Sharman, Phillipou maybe, Butler maybe if fit, Webster.

C to D- Howard, Clark, Stocker, Henry, Hammer, Tauru, Keeler, maybe Dodson and Boxshall, Dow, Byrnes, Collard, LOC, Hastie, Trav, Jones etc.

I think you have the old Saints goggles on. Agree on Wilkie, Nas, probably Sinclair at his best. Unless there is another category above A grade, no way are Marshall, Higgins and Hall at that level. Similarly B grade. If you are going to put Sharman, Wilson, Butler and Webster in that category then really every player in the AFL is in that category.

I think if you have an A grade, it has to be for the elite of the AFL, the top 50 or so. Great teams will have 5 maybe 6. Most teams will have 1, 2 or 3.

I think we have 3 you could make an argument for being A grade. Don't think Higgins and Marshall (may have been previously) will get to that level - we have seen what they can do. Hall, not even close. He is a vey neat footballer but he would need to lift productivity to go to next level.

If at the end of 2026 we can add Pou, Windy and King to A grade category we will be travelling extremely well.

 

[CursingFijian]

His record is not the point, might as well see if Dusty is busy.

We would ideally use it for a guy like Mason Wood who has been fantastic off field for us and may have coaching ambitions. I suggested Sen Ross last year as a potential two’s captain. You’d need to combine it with a development role to bump up the money, vfl guys get paid peanuts and I don’t want to clog a rookie list spot.

I don’t see that role as something I’d be willing to offer out of house. Our coaching group and football department would be well aware of players who might fit the role.

I’m also not keen on a guy like mitchell taking midfield minutes from our kids, he could still get 40 possessions in the vfl. To me it’s like getting Goldstein, great player but what about Dodson’s development.

I don’t have any answers but getting our VFL team to a level where we can practice AFL level winning match play is absolutely crucial to our development program. I hope the club is focused on getting the team off to a proper start.

The VFL development squad, injury management and conditioning / fitness are vital to nail down for immediate and prolonged success now.

 

[Armoooo]

I have been hard on Max because I know he could be the difference maker. I genuinely would love nothing more than him making it.

Unfortunately, I am super disheartened by what I just saw. I understand he is coming back from injury, but he also has zero upper body strength. Perhaps the shoulder injury has hampered his ability to get stronger. Who knows.

I really struggle to see a world where he dominates at AFL level. He is that far off it physically, I dont see how he holds up to the rigors of AFL.

Many will laugh at me for this post, I don't care. If you have beginner levels of strength as a professional athlete in a contact sport at age 25 something is seriously off.

I don't see how anyone can have any faith in Max at all at this stage.

I would have rather we moved him on instead of giving him such a bad contract.

 

[saintbill]

Not much positivity comes from you saintbill

We have been super positive about our trade period actually.

Unlike some I just don't buy into the everything is amazing narrative all the time.

I want to win!

Concerns remain over our coaching and training standards. Let's do better. We have a list to contend move forward.

Seeing your 1m asset struggling to do his mickey mouse fluff exercises at a crap commercial gym does not feel me with confidence an appropriate level of professionalism is being met.

 

[Train12]

A 16 year old. What I’d pay to see Big Bad Bill line up on Max and be thrown around like a ragdoll

Sure it wasn’t Ben King ? thought max was overseas

 

[ronnysnodgrass]

Given the last few months and all the things that are going on and the people that have already said they are coming (the Free Agents) and the people who say they want to (the ones that will require trades) and the airtime we are getting for the first time in years I have a simple question....... Are we becoming "relevant"

 

[saintbill]

Maybe the club gym is closed today for some reason and he’s going there cause he’s really committed to his rehab program.

Maybe he looks a bit confused cause he’s not used to training in a commercial environment.

Maybe this is the most hysterical, bed wetting post of all time.

By the way for you to be able to tell exactly his strength from a quick once over, you are genius and should monetise that somehow.

That is a pretty strange take. Doesn't take a genius to make a pretty quick assessment as to how strong somebody is at the gym.

Observe what they are lifting, and the exertion that is required to lift said weight. It's not rocket science mate

 

[beside the seaside]

Need to keep Marshall no matter what.

Was surprised to see Max King at a Bayside gym this morning. Must be in the mandatory 8 weeks away from the club period.

Was even more surprised by his approach to the gym. Didn't seem to have a şet program, was walking around looking lost.

Strength standards were nothing short of diabolical. Has the strength of a 16 year old who has been lifting for 6 months max.

I know it is not a strong point but I was honestly shocked how weak he is. Skin and bones.

Furthermore, why is he training at a crap commercial gym that has a truckload of boomers clogging up the machines?

Could easily be at The Foundry which is built for athletes and has far less people.

Super unprofessional by the club IMO. I remain convinced the club is not taking strength and conditioning seriously whatsover.

If what I just witnessed is how blokes train away from the club, absolutely nothing will be achieved the next 8 weeks.

Start with going to a proper gym ffs. Absolute rookie stuff.

Taking the piss?

 

[jwikked]

Just saw him 5 minutes ago mate, he is insanely weak. Absolute beginner levels of strength.

If he has put on size I would hate to see what he looked like before.

Also, if he is allowed at the club maybe somebody should ask him why he is training at a crap commercial gym.

Is it possible he's been ordered to lift small weights to help with recovery?

I do wish he'd bulk up. Tom Hawkins would have been a dud full forward if he wasn't a big unit

 

[Yawkey way]

so dont bring in experience to help mould and teach kids? just get in VAFA and country league hacks like Sandy???

You haven’t answered my question, what do you want mitchell for ?.

If it’s to coach then what’s the role, throw it open and get the best person for the job. If it’s purely as a player I’m not happy with an ex afl star, ball hog taking minutes away from kids and a rookie spot from a potential player.

There are plenty of solid vfl level top ups we just haven’t recruited well with the sandy alliance. I’ve known quite a few who went elsewhere and some who were lousy and still managed the odd game. It’s always going to be a balancing act but first and foremost it’s to development players for our afl team.

The vfl team is also badly impacted by injuries to listed players as we were this year. You can’t plan for that, what are we going to do overspend on the vfl to try and match local league and country money ?.

This has also become more complex since the afl changed the comp and axed the development league.

 

[Joffaboy]

Need to keep Marshall no matter what.

Was surprised to see Max King at a Bayside gym this morning. Must be in the mandatory 8 weeks away from the club period.

Was even more surprised by his approach to the gym. Didn't seem to have a şet program, was walking around looking lost.

Strength standards were nothing short of diabolical. Has the strength of a 16 year old who has been lifting for 6 months max.

I know it is not a strong point but I was honestly shocked how weak he is. Skin and bones.

Furthermore, why is he training at a crap commercial gym that has a truckload of boomers clogging up the machines?

Could easily be at The Foundry which is built for athletes and has far less people.

Super unprofessional by the club IMO. I remain convinced the club is not taking strength and conditioning seriously whatsover.

If what I just witnessed is how blokes train away from the club, absolutely nothing will be achieved the next 8 weeks.

Start with going to a proper gym ffs. Absolute rookie stuff.

It was Ben King not Max

Saints players have 24/7 access to the gym via keypad entry, like any gym.

 

[Yawkey way]

I don’t have any answers but getting our VFL team to a level where we can practice AFL level winning match play is absolutely crucial to our development program. I hope the club is focused on getting the team off to a proper start.

The VFL development squad, injury management and conditioning / fitness are vital to nail down for immediate and prolonged success now.

To win at vfl level you need a deep list with few injuries.

With no development league these days all listed players play vfl. If you’re in a development stage you will be fielding a young team. If you have injuries you will be fielding more local top ups.

We’ve had injuries and we have hit the draft in recent years. We’re now in a position where list spots are tight, with a reasonable run with injuries our vfl team will be just fine.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

That is a pretty strange take. Doesn't take a genius to make a pretty quick assessment as to how strong somebody is at the gym.

Observe what they are lifting, and the exertion that is required to lift said weight. It's not rocket science mate

We need Max to get on his bike & run the legs off opponents, not fall into the trap of wrestling in the goal square like he had to do after his knee injury.

He looked huge last preseason when I was at training watching him from 20m away.

If he’s slimmed down & focusing on being as agile & mobile as possible, then that’s great news IMO.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

By the way for you to be able to tell exactly his strength from a quick once over, you are genius and should monetise that somehow.

That is a pretty strange take. Doesn't take a genius to make a pretty quick assessment as to how strong somebody is at the gym.

Observe what they are lifting, and the exertion that is required to lift said weight. It's not rocket science mate

 

[Mavefromdelburn]

Need to keep Marshall no matter what.

Was surprised to see Max King at a Bayside gym this morning. Must be in the mandatory 8 weeks away from the club period.

Was even more surprised by his approach to the gym. Didn't seem to have a şet program, was walking around looking lost.

Strength standards were nothing short of diabolical. Has the strength of a 16 year old who has been lifting for 6 months max.

I know it is not a strong point but I was honestly shocked how weak he is. Skin and bones.

Furthermore, why is he training at a crap commercial gym that has a truckload of boomers clogging up the machines?

Could easily be at The Foundry which is built for athletes and has far less people.

Super unprofessional by the club IMO. I remain convinced the club is not taking strength and conditioning seriously whatsover.

If what I just witnessed is how blokes train away from the club, absolutely nothing will be achieved the next 8 weeks.

Start with going to a proper gym ffs. Absolute rookie stuff.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

That is a pretty strange take. Doesn't take a genius to make a pretty quick assessment as to how strong somebody is at the gym.

Observe what they are lifting, and the exertion that is required to lift said weight. It's not rocket science mate

If you can tell this from observing him for 5 minutes then I’m pretty sure the paid professionals at the club can as well.

The guy has been working his ass off to come back for the last 6 months and to make such sweeping generalised statements about him and the club from seeing him in a commercial gym for 5 minutes is really unfair.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Jesus, now we are talking about the bloody Gym. Let's hope Max is having his Power Sauce bars!

 

[CHBench]

Just catching up on today’s comments. For what it’s worth, Flanders will be a saint I can guarantee that but that doesn’t mean much given that’s already been said. What I don’t get is the hesitation on this…. Pick 7 in an average draft, who cares?? He is a youngish AA calibre mid who will fit in perfectly to our age group. Curious on the doubt on this

Agreed.
It's Pick 7, but really Pick 11 with academy/FS picks in what is reportedly one of the weakest draft classes. Very very comfortable moving on Pick 11 for a quality midfielder like Flanders

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Just catching up on today’s comments. For what it’s worth, Flanders will be a saint I can guarantee that but that doesn’t mean much given that’s already been said.

The club is putting him up at Crown to seal the deal.

 

[Suburbanhack]

First year players get kept as a mark down. Guys who have been stars get kept as where they started. Move those around and it sorts itself out.

I'd have us grouped as

A grade- Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas, Macrae, Marshall, Higgins maybe, Hall definitely close to it.

B- King, Steele, Hill, Wood, Owens, Windy, Wilson, Garcia maybe, Sharman, Phillipou maybe, Butler maybe if fit, Webster.

C to D- Howard, Clark, Stocker, Henry, Hammer, Tauru, Keeler, maybe Dodson and Boxshall, Dow, Byrnes, Collard, LOC, Hastie, Trav, Jones etc.

I guess we all see things differently but IMO this is extraordinarily generous. NAS and Wilkie are our only genuine A graders. Sincs probably was but not anymore. I don’t think Macrae, Ro or Higgins ever were. A few could get there (Viking, Pou, TDK, maybe Hall) but still a way off. In reality we are loaded with B’s, C’s and a few D’s