List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[L_W_P]

Gallop
Morris
OMac
Fort
Gardiner
Andrews

Three pretty average players, two talented kids and a dead set superstar.

Yes, the Lions have their handouts but they also show that you need to absolutely STACK your midfield and half forward line with as much talent as possible.

 

[gringo2011]

Spot on. He's been very average lately including today. Why we'd give them a pick and Marshall for him would be completely beyond me.

He's had a terrible finals and season. 19 year old O'Sullivan took his spot and does it better. SDK is a giant spare interceptor and gets caught out one on one. He's slow to think and loses his chance waiting. On SEN they were saying he has been their weakest link at Geelong for the finals.

Swapping your A graders and more to get hold of a C grader seems insane. I rate him around Aleer level, the only thing going for him is that he's played in a good system.

 

[gringo2011]

Geelong suddenly being open to trading SDK would kinda make sense with the relatively unexpected Curnow situation arising after SDK re-signed imo

O'Sullivan is a much better version. SDK isn't really a true KPB. He's like Howard where he can play there but he's best sitting across CHB taking marks. When they changed their game plan he lost his impact.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree totally about the big bodied mids. Back before the finals I posted this -

"On that score it's why I still think the Lions are the team to beat. When they are on, their midfield of Neale, McCluggage, Dunkley, Ashcroft x2, Rayner etc is unstoppable. We can only dream of something like that."

I was further convinced after watching the GF. They aren't just the best midfield in the comp they are the toughest. They have the ability to take teams on through the middle of the ground and break tackles without losing possession. It reminds me of Geelong when they had guys like Ablett, Corey, Ling, Chapman, Bartel etc, only better. And some of the great Hawthorn midfields of the past. It's one thing having ball magnets but if you want to be be a genuine chance of winning it you need that physical presence that can overpower the opposition mids. We are a still a long way from assembling a group like that.

Without it you are banking on fluking a weak year when you can get by with a less powerful group. It does happen but we we've waited long enough.

Multiple players that rotate through that all have run and contested ability. They don't really carry anyone that doesn't run but don't lose clearance either. If Butters and Newcombe are rare commodities they have several that play that way.

We need Garcia to come on and Box to move up. Nas and Hall are rotations. Flanders is he comes. Phillipou etc.

 

[gringo2011]

Well was until this morning. Have been there for the past fortnight. Before lunch we drove back into Georgia and then this afternoon we crossed into Turkey. Armenia is a beautiful country, that we very much enjoyed. If you are going to Armenia include Georgia in your trip as it is also incredible.

That was the itinerary that I'd looked at funny enough. I want to go to some of the more obscure Eastern European countries too. Romania looks interesting and Slovakia and Serbia looks worth a visit. People are saying Belgrade is like going to Berlin in the 90s.

I'm over going to Western Europe it's full of tourists which ruins the experience.

 

[Ricmel]

"On that score it's why I still think the Lions are the team to beat. When they are on, their midfield of Neale, McCluggage, Dunkley, Ashcroft x2, Rayner etc is unstoppable. We can only dream of something like that."

with a less powerful group. It does happen but we we've waited long enough.

Pretty insightful and ultimately correct.

I think at Saints really the recruits are now a minor part of the equation in terms of success/failure. There is a group of players we know what we are going to get - Silvagni, Wilkie, Sinclair, Howard, TDK, Ryan, Wood, Sharman, Stocker, Marshall, Steele, McCrae, Higgins. That's 14 or so of the best 24 that will do what they have always done. And that is reasonably competitive.

Success/failure will be all around the upside in Nas, Pou, Windy, Wilson, Garcia, Box, Hall, Tauru, Trav and I'll throw King in because he is basically starting from scratch.

To me, it does not matter too much who else we bring in, Flanders be nice, this is basically the equation. Club has rolled the dice. It is all about the potential in the under 23s.

 

[hayes]

O'Sullivan is a much better version. SDK isn't really a true KPB. He's like Howard where he can play there but he's best sitting across CHB taking marks. When they changed their game plan he lost his impact.

I’m too traumatized as a Saints fan to not have every base covered. Imagine prelim final night coming up against Darcy or Thilthorpe and they’re just lobbing it up Mason Cox style because we don’t have anyone that can reach that high. And you just know it will happen because St Kilda.

 

[gringo2011]

Pretty insightful and ultimately correct.

I think at Saints really the recruits are now a minor part of the equation in terms of success/failure. There is a group of players we know what we are going to get - Silvagni, Wilkie, Sinclair, Howard, TDK, Ryan, Wood, Sharman, Stocker, Marshall, Steele, McCrae, Higgins. That's 14 or so of the best 24 that will do what they have always done. And that is reasonably competitive.

Success/failure will be all around the upside in Nas, Pou, Windy, Wilson, Garcia, Box, Hall, Tauru, Trav and I'll throw King in because he is basically starting from scratch.

To me, it does not matter too much who else we bring in, Flanders be nice, this is basically the equation. Club has rolled the dice. It is all about the potential in the under 23s.

Flanders looks like a really important piece of the puzzle if we are going now. Garcia and Boxshall have too play way beyond their years in premium positions otherwise. Pretty thin on depth too.

Over all it is the internal growth that will decide how far this group goes though. If we get a lift out of Windhager, King, Owens, Hall, Henry, Hammer etc who are all experienced now and get a group of the younger guys all go ups step we look a lot closer.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m too traumatized as a Saints fan to not have every base covered. Imagine prelim final night coming up against Darcy or Thilthorpe and they’re just lobbing it up Mason Cox style because we don’t have anyone that can reach that high. And you just know it will happen because St Kilda.

Caminiti is no worse. Howard potentially gets back too. Nearly identical players. Marshall could also redeploy.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I’m too traumatized as a Saints fan to not have every base covered. Imagine prelim final night coming up against Darcy or Thilthorpe and they’re just lobbing it up Mason Cox style because we don’t have anyone that can reach that high. And you just know it will happen because St Kilda.

You must have missed the memo…

In order for the comp to start regarding us as as not being perpetual losers, WE have to get over the victim / bad luck / woe is us mentality we have all been guilty of over the years.

Positive groupthink/talk only

 

[jimmytigs]

when people talk of our bottom 6 in 09/10,i saw that in the cats yesterday

stanley-cooked
clark-looks like a career GOP
mullin/oconnor-effective to a point,but only at stopping,then when their direct opponents(rayner/mccluggage)got off the chain they were two of the prime movers in the win
osullivan-reckon he had a mare,might be a future star,but on this day he was every bit bottom 6
guthrie-supposedly a loose man,no effect on the game
all 4 small forwards held well till junk time(mannagh)before junk time,close looked the only one likely

big mistake with martin,should have started,when he didnt they needed to pull the trigger on cameron earlier,as it stands add martin to the bottom 6

if we get our new 5 and hold marshall and wilkie as has been repeated time and again,i reckon we are closer to these top teams than we think,lets hope big O zorko lester retire and neale starts to drop off,5 more are 30 plus to start next season and ahcee and starcevich likely out the door

 

[CursingFijian]

Very few people are going to sign up to Kayo to watch a replay of a game.

 

[hangdog]

I think you may have been mistaken, as Max is overseas. I saw him this morning at a cafe in Gymuri in Armenia and he had the waiter lifting up the coffee cup for him to drink his cappuccinno. To be fair it was a large cup.

"Put it in H!"

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Given our recent acquisition of multiple tall backs do we need SDK, and would we benefit?

Given SDK is 24, 204cm & can provide some ruck minutes, I think we’d be mad not to get him into the club if we had the opportunity.

I’m firmly in the keep Roma camp but this is a young player with enormous upside & at an age who will grow with the group we have already assembled.

I wouldn’t be too concerned about the glut of tall defenders we would have… Hammer can swing forward, Doug becomes purely back up (& may decide to go elsewhere in this eventuality), JSOS is versatile enough to play anywhere, Viking has time to develop at both ends, etc.

SDK, Aleer & Wilks as your talls is a delightful thought.

 

[stavro#4]

Multiple players that rotate through that all have run and contested ability. They don't really carry anyone that doesn't run but don't lose clearance either. If Butters and Newcombe are rare commodities they have several that play that way.

We need Garcia to come on and Box to move up. Nas and Hall are rotations. Flanders is he comes. Phillipou etc.

It’s worth pointing out that when Neale joined them, those names weren’t massively different to the group you named.

They need to keep building. But on paper it does look like a lot of the pieces are there that match with yesterdays grand final sides

 

[SainterinSydney]

At least Lions will lose Ah Chee, Starcevich and maybe Neale.

 

[stavro#4]

Edmund on Sen

“Marshall hasn’t been thrilled with the club's sort to go after Tom De Koning

12

Tom De Koning

Age

26

Ht

201cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.0

4star

CL

0.5

2star

HO

1.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.0

4star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

1.5

5star

, was he brought into the tent on this offer enough and sold the role and how it was going to work? No.

“So, he has had his head turned, the Cats want a ruckman, and they have met with Rowan Marshall

19

Rowan Marshall

Age

30

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

20.2

5star

D

12.9

3star

K

9.3

4star

HB

3.6

2star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.8

5star

.”


Narrative changes, doesn’t it.

No longer is it that he wasn’t told. It’s that he wasn’t now told enough and has had his head turned.

Gee, we really are going to deserve an apology

 

[stavro#4]

At least Lions will lose Ah Chee, Starcevich and maybe Neale.

They won’t lose Neale.

They also gain Draper Allan and Annable. They will be a force for another 5 seasons.

 

[stavro#4]

No chance.

If anything it'll go way, way up.

Live sport is the absolute premium for TV and streaming services.

A TV series can be binged in a week. Or watched sporadically. Or skipped entirely. Or downloaded.

Live sports/events are at a premium because they HAVE to be watched in the moment. Very few people are going to sign up to Kayo to watch a replay of a game.

You wanna take part in the discussion? Be part of the social scene? You need to sign up and watch it.

It's also why people behind the scenes are pushing for a twilight/night start time.

Joe Average is less likely to invite a big group of people around for a later start, meaning more people stay home to watch it on their own TV.

Means more subscribers to streaming services.

More devices tuning in means providers can charge more for advertising.

Smaller groups also means less distractions so people spend more time paying attention to the advertising as well.

Im certain that a twilight start will be locked in as part of the next deal, even if it's as a 'trial' for 2-3 years.

AFL app has every replay going back the last few years aswell.

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

Gehrig was playing on the wing for west coast and getting booed by the supporters.
His first few games in defence were shithouse.
He turned out to be one of my favorite ever players but I don't reckon anyone knew how fantastic he'd be with us.

Guy I went to school with told me about him in 1992, said was tearing it up in the under 18's for Wodonga, said he would go first round the next year's draft which he did.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Trade out Wilkie for SDK would be insane.

Perhaps Wilkie wants to leave for the pay day, so it would be reasonable in my view. I get the impression that the club think that Tauru will play the Wilkie role and although they love him, they are planning for the future and are prepared to make long term decisions.

SDK has a lot of footy ahead of him and we definitely need a 2m tall defender to play on the big forwards. Perhaps the club also think that paying a 24yo over a 29yo the extra dollars is a better investment?

I doubt we give Geelong Marshall and a first round pick, without getting a pick and SDK in return.

IF it does occur you would wonder what happens to Howard next year - perhaps he has interest from another club also?

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

It’ll be adjusted somewhat - certainly if he becomes captain, but nowhere near what the dogs are offering.
Look what we had to offer to get TDK over, and he is a free agent.
Doggies are going to have to/ have offered Wilkie an excellent hike, according to all accounts but are really going to have to satisfy us first.
Personally, I think they’re on a hiding to nothing.
Wilkie will stay.

I am off the opinion that they went hard early at TDK coz he was about to sign an extension with the blues, they turned his head and the restis history.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Has there been any sign or mention of our recent interest in SDK apart from the big footy dude?

 

[SaintsofSteel]

They won’t lose Neale.

They also gain Draper Allan and Annable. They will be a force for another 5 seasons.

Plus at next years draft Brisbane will access to NGA's Tyan Prindable and ruckman Charlie Hewitt, plus most likely Cooper Hodge.

 

[L_W_P]

O'Sullivan is a much better version. SDK isn't really a true KPB. He's like Howard where he can play there but he's best sitting across CHB taking marks. When they changed their game plan he lost his impact.

If the Cats were smart they would pivot into making SDK their #1 ruck. Just like his brother, his best work is done when he's on his bike and contributing as a 200cm link up player.