Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[doppleganger]

Maybe they should have purchased a basic WCE membership and gone onto the waiting list for AFL Gold? A better investment?

WC don't even offer a general administration style season ticket, their membership is purely reserved seating based.

So after paying for a reserved seat membership, you expect them to pay an additional $500 per year for a Silver AFL membership to access games in Melbourne?

Or I guess we could piss and moan on a forum about it instead

It is a thread about VICBias, and you are doing a very good job at proving the point that current GF ticket allocation is biased towards Melbourne fans.

 

[doppleganger]

I became an AFL member back in the early 1990's so that I could go to the Grand Final every year (I am also an Essendon member). The Grand Final access was the selling point, and it's those very funds which we pay, which went towards building the Great Southern Stand. I've been to 33 Grand Finals. It's now a 20 year wait to become a Gold AFL member. If finals access (specifically Grand Final access) wasn't available, then I would have never signed up in the first place. Imagine a current AFL silver member who has been waiting for 19 years who finally, after two decades becomes a Gold member only to find out that they can't go to the Grand Final now after waiting 19 years to be able to go? That's why it will never change, nor should it. The SELLING point of Gold AFL membership is Grand Final access. We pay a lot of money and wait a lot of years to get that access.

A silver member pays about $500 to get access to 40 games etc

A gold member pays about $750 for the similar access ($30 buck prelim final ticket compared to $200 now for most other members) and priority GF access.

If they reduce GF priority access, and you don't think it provides value anymore oh well.

As you and the other Essendon fan both said, you opt to not purchase a direct Essendon membership because you go for a better option, so you have just have another choice to make.

It is currently non-transferrable. I'd like to see it transferable so that those not going to the Grand Final can give their tickets to members of competing clubs without risk of losing their membership.

The obvious solution is to not give a random Essendon supporting fan who has been to 40 GFs the ability to access a ticket unless Essendon is actually playing in it.

And laughable that your solution is to make it easier to scalp your ticket again for personal gain...the old AFL Gold member who sells their GF ticket (as their team ain't playing) to make a personal profit trick.

 

[Bay53]

I’m confused. So you have an AFL gold but you feel dirty about it? Why don’t you take the GF ticket and offer it to a Lions supporter? That might ease your conscience.

I am an AFL Gold. Last Saturday was my 30th Grand Final. I loved it.

I don’t live in Victoria, the last GF I was living in Victoria for was 2003.

I did offer my Lions member ticket to a Lions supporter and attended on my AFL membership.

 

[doppleganger]

You phase out gold class.

Something like each year only 50% of gold departures get replaced. So there's still some movement in the queue but the numbers in gold class drop every year.

You lost a lot of prelims when the comp moved to home finals, you'll deal with it. It's fairer.

AFL T&Cs already note that even for GOLD members * access to matches is not guaranteed.

And for the next Essendon Gold member to decide to miss the point, it ain't a criticism of you - yes AFL membership is a great deal, and of course if you already are a Gold member or have been for 30 years and been to 30+ GFs it highlights that you have already received great value for your money.

It's a criticism that the AFL continue to offer that choice when it's not equitable and doesn't even really apply to WA or SA fans. So just make the choice more equivalent to that of a SA/WA/NSW fan.

 

[Bay53]

So in other words a product that has nothing to do with you, and seems to be working out well for both the seller and buyer (neither of which are you), you want to change.

But it is everyone else that is entitled.

Jog on please.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Aaaand the cup goes off to Brissy

womp womp

So you and me were going for Brissy to win?

womp womp.

Brissy seem to play well at the G, both Collingwood and Sydney should find out their formula.

 

[doppleganger]

So in other words a product that has nothing to do with you, and seems to be working out well for both the seller and buyer (neither of which are you), you want to change.

Yep.

This is a thread about advantage/disadvantage.

GF ticket allocation is a fair complaint.

AFL membership, the product, is a membership that offers non-competing members access to the GF ahead of club members.

And as it evolved from VFL Park membership, and only offers fans access to MCG and Marvel during the season and wk1-3 of finals, the people who benefit from it are overwhelming Victorian (or Vics who have subsequently moved, but don't want to give up GF access).

A non complex fix is to tweak access so the AFL Gold club members are grouped as respective club members for GF. That means WA and SA clubs like WC then would have more equitable support at the GF, and there would be a extra tickets to give to club members.

If Essendon make it, Essendon Gold club support members receive the priority (as per current T&Cs) and get access to Essendon club allocation...almost guaranteeing them a ticket. If it ain't your team, the non-competing Gold members can get access to any leftovers post club members window.

But yes, it is unsurprising that the position of an AFL Gold member is the AFL should continue to favour 30k AFL Gold members who have enjoyed access to 30-40 GFs over the 500k+ club members who support teams from outside Victoria, for which AFL bronze, silver or gold membership doesn't even help them watch their team during H&A at Optus or Adelaide Oval.

 

[bacon buster]

Yep.

This is a thread about advantage/disadvantage.

GF ticket allocation is a fair complaint.

AFL membership, the product, is a membership that offers non-competing members access to the GF ahead of club members.

And as it evolved from VFL Park membership, and only offers fans access to MCG and Marvel during the season and wk1-3 of finals, the people who benefit from it are overwhelming Victorian (or Vics who have subsequently moved, but don't want to give up GF access).

A non complex fix is to tweak access so the AFL Gold club members are grouped as respective club members for GF. That means WA and SA clubs like WC then would have more equitable support at the GF, and there would be a extra tickets to give to club members.

If Essendon make it, Essendon Gold club support members receive the priority (as per current T&Cs) and get access to Essendon club allocation...almost guaranteeing them a ticket. If it ain't your team, the non-competing Gold members can get access to any leftovers post club members window.

But yes, it is unsurprising that the position of an AFL Gold member is the AFL should continue to favour 30k AFL Gold members who have enjoyed access to 30-40 GFs over the 500k+ club members who support teams from outside Victoria, for which AFL bronze, silver or gold membership doesn't even help them watch their team during H&A at Optus or Adelaide Oval.

You’re going to be surprised when you see how many different complaints people already have about “fairness” in this competition. Trying to fight all of those arguments will be tough.

As a Victorian, I have easier access to the MCG than fans from WA or SA, but there are only three real ways to guarantee a Grand Final ticket:

1. MCC Membership – ~25–30 year waitlist for full membership. Once full, you’re guaranteed a ticket regardless of who’s playing.
2. AFL Membership – ~15–20 year waitlist to reach Gold status. Gold members are guaranteed a ticket regardless of the teams.
3. Premium Club Membership – high-cost club packages; wait time and availability vary.

Like many others, I chose not to pay for Option 3 and instead spent years on the AFL Membership waitlist. I’m also a restricted MCC member. My plan was to wait, get both full memberships, and then decide which one to keep.

You can’t just remove or reduce AFL Gold entitlements (and the AFL wont) - people have invested decades of time and significant money to reach that level.

And nothing stops WA, SA (or NSW and QLD - you've omitted them for some reason) fans from applying for AFL or MCC membership. I know plenty of people who joined the MCC purely to access the Grand Final and Boxing Day Test and rarely go otherwise.

If you want more guaranteed access, the same path is open: pay for the memberships others have worked and waited for, and you’ll get the same entitlements.

 

[doppleganger]

You're going to be amazed when you see a list of complaints that other people have about "fairness"

Yeah most are ridiculous, GF ticket allocation is a legit complaint.

You and the other Essendon AFL members have just proven their point.

An easy fix is available, the only losers would be the AFL Gold members who think they should get a ticket before a competing club member.

 

[bacon buster]

Yeah most are ridiculous, GF ticket allocation is a legit complaint.

You and the other Essendon AFL members have just proven their point.

An easy fix is available, the only losers would be the AFL Gold members who think they should get a ticket before a competing club member.

Or they can just pay for an AFL or MCC membership like everyone else.

 

[doppleganger]

You can’t just remove or reduce AFL Gold entitlements (and the AFL wont) - people have invested decades of time and significant money to reach that level.

They already have, used to have to be a PF in Melbourne. The poor AFL members lost that entitlement.

And the T&Cs don't guarantee a ticket either.

If they tweak entitlements, people like yourself will just re-evaluate your choice, if you perceive a better value membership elsewhere you will just jump to it

If you want more guaranteed access, the same path is open: pay for the memberships others have worked and waited for, and you’ll get the same entitlements.

Worked and waited for...

 

[bacon buster]

They already have, used to have to be a PF in Melbourne. The poor AFL members lost that entitlement.

And the T&Cs don't guarantee a ticket either.

If they tweak entitlements, people like yourself will just re-evaluate your choice, if you perceive a better value membership elsewhere you will just jump to it


Worked and waited for...

You might find this topic of interest:

Commerce - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sr36]

And nothing stops WA, SA (or NSW and QLD - you've omitted them for some reason) fans from applying for AFL or MCC membership. I know plenty of people who joined the MCC purely to access the Grand Final and Boxing Day Test and rarely go otherwise.

If you want more guaranteed access, the same path is open: pay for the memberships others have worked and waited for, and you’ll get the same entitlements.

At the moment, with a silver membership, for $500 bucks or however much it is, through AFL membership, a Vic fan gets club membership, access to a heap of other games and are on the wait list for a guaranteed GF ticket. A non Vic fan would essentially only get on the wait list for that outlay. If you think that's equitable, you're dreaming? The they can but it too argument is ridiculous.

An alternative approach that keeps the current system but brings equity would be for the AFL to pay a shit load to set aside an AFL members section of proportional size at Adelaide Oval, Optus Stadium, Gabba, etc.

 

[p4p1]

There is Vic fans who get to go to the Grand Final every year. For many, not just non-Vic fans but Victorian fans, getting a chance to go watch their team on the biggest day in football is little more than a dream.

When the Grand Finals were played in Perth and Brisbane, people complained that this was the first one they weren't going to get to see in person since XXXX.

I became an AFL member back in the early 1990's so that I could go to the Grand Final every year (I am also an Essendon member). The Grand Final access was the selling point, and it's those very funds which we pay, which went towards building the Great Southern Stand. I've been to 33 Grand Finals. It's now a 20 year wait to become a Gold AFL member. If finals access (specifically Grand Final access) wasn't available, then I would have never signed up in the first place. Imagine a current AFL silver member who has been waiting for 19 years who finally, after two decades becomes a Gold member only to find out that they can't go to the Grand Final now after waiting 19 years to be able to go? That's why it will never change, nor should it. The SELLING point of Gold AFL membership is Grand Final access. We pay a lot of money and wait a lot of years to get that access.

It is currently non-transferrable. I'd like to see it transferable so that those not going to the Grand Final can give their tickets to members of competing clubs without risk of losing their membership.

Imagine being the member of a club who's team is finally in the Grand Final and you aren't lucky enough to get tickets because the allocation is much smaller than the amount of members because a bunch of people who don't support either club have guaranteed GF access.

 

[LoungeLizard]

There is Vic fans who get to go to the Grand Final every year. For many, not just non-Vic fans but Victorian fans, getting a chance to go watch their team on the biggest day in football is little more than a dream.

When the Grand Finals were played in Perth and Brisbane, people complained that this was the first one they weren't going to get to see in person since XXXX.



Imagine being the member of a club who's team is finally in the Grand Final and you aren't lucky enough to get tickets because the allocation is much smaller than the amount of members because a bunch of people who don't support either club have guaranteed GF access.

I agree with what you are saying.

People should be able to go watch the GF if their team makes it, sadly it will only get worse.

And this is one of the reasons I just laugh at people who say "but what about the Super Bowl"

The Super Bowls average ticket price last year was something like $35,000, so good luck with that.
Also they can afford to have smaller crowds as advertising is $7mill+ for a 30 second slot, say a AFL ticket is $1000, that would take 1 ad break to pay for the loss of seats.

 

[bacon buster]

At the moment, with a silver membership, for $500 bucks or however much it is, through AFL membership, a Vic fan gets club membership, access to a heap of other games and are on the wait list for a guaranteed GF ticket. A non Vic fan would essentially only get on the wait list for that outlay. If you think that's equitable, you're dreaming? The they can but it too argument is ridiculous.

An alternative approach that keeps the current system but brings equity would be for the AFL to pay a shit load to set aside an AFL members section of proportional size at Adelaide Oval, Optus Stadium, Gabba, etc.

Equity is bs, so please don't start there as the conversation can go nowhere

Given the GF is going nowhere for the next 30 years, the bolded part makes sense. However, I suspect the non Vic clubs would be against that.

Otherwise your suggestion removing existing AFL Gold entitlements just seems vindictive

 

[Dan26]

Imagine being the member of a club who's team is finally in the Grand Final and you aren't lucky enough to get tickets because the allocation is much smaller than the amount of members because a bunch of people who don't support either club have guaranteed GF access.

That's no diffferent to any major world sporting event. AFL members have invested decades into the waiting list. And the funds help build the Southern Stand too. You can't just change the system after waitng 20 years.

 

[Dan26]

You phase out gold class.

Something like each year only 50% of gold departures get replaced. So there's still some movement in the queue but the numbers in gold class drop every year.

You lost a lot of prelims when the comp moved to home finals, you'll deal with it. It's fairer.

That's not happening. You can wish it, but it's not happening. Time to live in the real world.

And no, there was not a loss of prelims when the AFL correctly moved to home finals. When the Southern Stand got built, there was just one Preliminary Final. From 1994, there was two prelims, so even with justified home finals for non-Victorian clubs, there was still more MCG prelims in total, than what there would have been had just the one Preliminary Final been held. So, you're factually wrong on that one

 

[Dan26]

A silver member pays about $500 to get access to 40 games etc

A gold member pays about $750 for the similar access ($30 buck prelim final ticket compared to $200 now for most other members) and priority GF access.

If they reduce GF priority access, and you don't think it provides value anymore oh well.

They're not reducing Grand Final priority access. Gold members have access (unless competing club Gold members take up all the tickets which has never happened). I continue to get it, because it has value to me. You can't take it away, because people have invested in good faith, for over decades in the waiting list in order to get what they have paid for in both time and money - Grand Final access. If you want Grand Final access, then become an AFL member too. No one is stopping you. Do it.

As you and the other Essendon fan both said, you opt to not purchase a direct Essendon membership because you go for a better option, so you have just have another choice to make

I don't have another choice to make because the AFL aren't changing anything. I'm happy with my current choice.

And laughable that your solution is to make it easier to scalp your ticket again for personal gain...the old AFL Gold member who sells their GF ticket (as their team ain't playing) to make a personal profit

I never said anything about making a personal profit. You're putting words into my mouth and you should apologize. Scalping is evil, and should be stopped. I said the ticket should be transferrable so it can go to supporters of the competing clubs (if I'm not going) without me getting into trouble for giving my membership to someone else. Hardly a controversial opinion.

 

[doppleganger]

AFL members have invested decades into the waiting list.

You mean being silver members and getting access to 40 games per year and week 1-3 of finals and GFs

What an "investment"

You can't just change the system after waitng 20 years.

No change to the system, T&C confirms AFL membership doesn't guarantee access.

Priority is still competing AFL Gold competing club members for GF.

Priority two would be AFL Gold non-competing, but they are just behind Medallion, and club members in terms of reserve capacity...then silver etc.

It is why most Silvers go in the club support ballot anyway (if their club makes it).

 

[JackOutback]

I became an AFL member back in the early 1990's so that I could go to the Grand Final every year (I am also an Essendon member). The Grand Final access was the selling point, and it's those very funds which we pay, which went towards building the Great Southern Stand. I've been to 33 Grand Finals. It's now a 20 year wait to become a Gold AFL member. If finals access (specifically Grand Final access) wasn't available, then I would have never signed up in the first place. Imagine a current AFL silver member who has been waiting for 19 years who finally, after two decades becomes a Gold member only to find out that they can't go to the Grand Final now after waiting 19 years to be able to go? That's why it will never change, nor should it. The SELLING point of Gold AFL membership is Grand Final access. We pay a lot of money and wait a lot of years to get that access.

It is currently non-transferrable. I'd like to see it transferable so that those not going to the Grand Final can give their tickets to members of competing clubs without risk of losing their membership.

Now imagine not even having access to that opportunity.

I've been to exactly zero grand finals and that will likely remain the case. This kind of privilege to supporters of football from one state in what is supposed to be a national competition is precisely what's at the heart of this thread.

 

[JackOutback]

Also, these last few pages.

 

[bacon buster]

Now imagine not even having access to that opportunity.

I've been to exactly zero grand finals and that will likely remain the case. This kind of privilege to supporters of football from one state in what is supposed to be a national competition is precisely what's at the heart of this thread.

You do. You can purchase an AFL Membership and wait like everyone else. Or you can join your clubs waiting list for their premium membership.

Crying about it unfortunately wont help.

 

[doppleganger]

I never said anything about making a personal profit. You're putting words into my mouth and you should apologize. Scalping is evil, and should be stopped. I said the ticket should be transferrable so it can go to supporters of the competing clubs (if I'm not going) without me getting into trouble for giving my membership to someone else. Hardly a controversial opinion.

Why the feck should a membership that doesn't even guarantee access (because they are over-subscribed) be transferrable?

Reserved seat memberships should be transferrable because you pay a premium for the privilege of having your own seat.

Prioritizing supporters of competing club members directly ain't the controversial opinion, unless you are a Gold Essendon member!

 

[Dan26]

Now imagine not even having access to that opportunity.

I've been to exactly zero grand finals and that will likely remain the case. This kind of privilege to supporters of football from one state in what is supposed to be a national competition is precisely what's at the heart of this thread.

You can call it whatever you like, but there is nothing stopping you becoming an AFL member with a West Coast club support package, in addition to your normal West Coast membership and you would have access to the Grand Final every year. I'm not stopping you.