Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[Dry Rot]

I don't rate Ainsworth although we are linked to him every time his name comes up. He will be 28 next year and isn't a huge upgrade on McNeil, considering his cost it isn't worth the slight bump in performance.

What do you think of Buderick?

 

[Mojorisin]

What do you think of Buderick?

If he can keep his body right like he did this year he will be a great inclusion, fills our biggest list need in my opinion.

 

[Doggy]

If he can keep his body right like he did this year he will be a great inclusion, fills our biggest list need in my opinion.

Buderick and Frost?

 

[Mojorisin]

Buderick and Frost?

I'd rather Blight.

 

[0utsider]

I don't rate Ainsworth although we are linked to him every time his name comes up. He will be 28 next year and isn't a huge upgrade on McNeil, considering his cost it isn't worth the slight bump in performance.

McNeil isn’t half the player Ainsworth is. Granted Ainsworth is no star but he’s a solid B grade half/small forward. McNeil is a C grader on a good day.

 

[Dry Rot]

If he can keep his body right like he did this year he will be a great inclusion, fills our biggest list need in my opinion.

Thanks.

Obviously having had two ACL's there's a bit of fingers crossed in there.

Care to make a prediction about whether we will get an additional key position defender, and who that might be?

At the moment, the possible field looks bare beyond suboptimal solutions like May or Frost.

 

[DognBones]

Quite a few mentions of Sam Frost

8

Sam Frost

Age

32

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

191.6

3star

D

10.5

3star

K

6.3

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

191.6

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

4star

in this thread. Don't think he's much of an upgrade on Gardner if at all. He's 32 and in decline. Even though he's a bit smaller, Jai Serong would be a better and more versatile option as a third tall or half back flanker. However, if it's a KPD we're after we might have to spread the net wider.

 

[goodcop badcop]

People still obsessed with hIt out numbers. The most overrated stat in the game. Sure English isn't in the top 5 rucks in the league. But he is still better than more than half the league. Whilst his ruck contests could leave a little to desire at times. But how many rucks in the league can get 20 possessions in a game, drop back to defence and take an intercept mark, take a contested mark on the wing to escape defence, or go forward and kick a goal?

For the lack of ruck dominance at times, he makes up for it being useful around the ground. Some teams play with 21 men on the ground as their ruck is too slow to do much else than stat pad the hit outs.

Hitout numbers i don't care about, that's not my argument.

Why was English our 11th best player according to our B & F? He wasn't close to 10th either, in fact 34 votes behind West. There's no excuses for it, injuries and the like.

Our gameplan revolves heavily around our midfield and all indications lead to that English is a weak link. Even the coaches think so looking at the results, I just wish we would actually address it for once.

English had more hit outs than Marshall in both of games this year.

Tim also is far better around the ground.

English isn’t the greatest ruck ever but he’s better than Marshall

I'm not debating who's better, I think we can agree that both are good player's though? We need good players and I think it would allow us to release one player to the back line.

Part of it is also, I follow the draft and I don't really rate the draft and I'm happy to part with our first round pick more then other year's. Based on probability, the player we pick is more then likely be a B grader, so I'm happy to trade it. I don't think we will trade it, but I think we should if we can.

We are in a premiership window, not convinced we are trying hard enough or thinking creatively enough.

 

[Doggies7]

Jed Bews no contract.
Him and Budarick are upgrades for us as lockdown defenders.

A few years ago would love him, but 32 at the start of next season, need to find younger options.

 

[DannyB4]

Dunno if this has been posted already.......

"Travis Boak reveals he would've moved to the Western Bulldogs if he was forced by Port Adelaide to retire at the end of 2023"

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/lifestyle/sa-weekend/travis-boak-reveals-western-bulldogs-move-after-port-adelaide-retirement-talks/news-story/9a16ba6cdc39d7b215f714afe4b568b4

Play for a year or two and then move into coaching.

Full article here

Hope he comes to us now anyway. Genuine good footy person and no club can ever have enough of those types.

 

[Dav1d]

Hope he comes to us now anyway. Genuine good footy person and no club can ever have enough of those types.

Just out of curiosity
I wonder what his relationship is like with Butters

 

[trophies]

Hitout numbers i don't care about, that's not my argument.

Why was English our 11th best player according to our B & F? He wasn't close to 10th either, in fact 34 votes behind West. There's no excuses for it, injuries and the like.

Our gameplan revolves heavily around our midfield and all indications lead to that English is a weak link. Even the coaches think so looking at the results, I just wish we would actually address it for once.



I'm not debating who's better, I think we can agree that both are good player's though? We need good players and I think it would allow us to release one player to the back line.

Part of it is also, I follow the draft and I don't really rate the draft and I'm happy to part with our first round pick more then other year's. Based on probability, the player we pick is more then likely be a B grader, so I'm happy to trade it. I don't think we will trade it, but I think we should.

We are in a premiership window, not convinced we are trying hard enough or thinking creatively enough.

Premiership window? Hard to see it.
We weren't really competitive against 7 of the 8 teams above us on the ladder. Hard to see any natural improvement from the majority of the players, with just a couple of exceptions. No magical imports on the horizon. Highly rated midfield players are approaching the end of their careers, support players are just ordinary. Backline is only C grade. Forward line could possibly be B+ or A-, but who is going to deliver to them? Followers are vanilla. Game plan of high-press has been proven to be ineffective and needs a complete overhaul. (Wasn't it refreshing to see the VFL team play normal football? And it worked!)
It seems very likely that the WBFC will continue to butcher the careers of Bont, Darcy and Naughton.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Totally missed that Cordy had been delisted!

And we need a key defender! All our problems solved!

 

[perro_loco]

English had more hit outs than Marshall in both of games this year.

Tim also is far better around the ground.

English isn’t the greatest ruck ever but he’s better than Marshall

English benefit from the ball up rule. I think it will favour him in a big way.

 

[perro_loco]

He looks like he is going to break through shortly.

Not seen much of LSmith except for the three finals, including the VFL GF. I think the upside on his is quite promising. 5 kgs would make him a bit of a beast. could he play a backman's role also?

 

[DiamondDogs8]

Why not play English as a key defender in that scenario? He has better footskills than most his size which would be handy in defence.

Discalimer Dogs fans: image may cause severe trauma

 

[goodcop badcop]

Premiership window? Hard to see it.
We weren't really competitive against 7 of the 8 teams above us on the ladder. Hard to see any natural improvement from the majority of the players, with just a couple of exceptions. No magical imports on the horizon. Highly rated midfield players are approaching the end of their careers, support players are just ordinary. Backline is only C grade. Forward line could possibly be B+ or A-, but who is going to deliver to them? Followers are vanilla. Game plan of high-press has been proven to be ineffective and needs a complete overhaul. (Wasn't it refreshing to see the VFL team play normal football? And it worked!)
It seems very likely that the WBFC will continue to butcher the careers of Bont, Darcy and Naughton.

I'm not as negative, but if the only player we bring in is Budarick along with a few draft picks, it's not gonna get us anywhere, even if we fix some of our coaching issues. Many things have to change.

 

[Doggy]

Totally missed that Cordy had been delisted!

And we need a key defender! All our problems solved!

He's been StKildered now

 

[DannyB4]

Here is my hypothetical for Buderic and butters. What do people think.
Dogs give JUH pick 11 pick 31
Suns give pick 6 and Buderick. Suns get an extra 150 odd points and JUH for buderick.

Dogs give 7 2026 1st 2027 1st
Power give butters pick 27 and 2026 2nd.

Gives power 3 1sts for butters and 2 2nds.

expect us to get a 1 1st in either 2026 or 2027 for sanders

Pick 6 will be used in the Petracca trade. We need to forget about it.

 

[Oliver G]

Hitout numbers i don't care about, that's not my argument.

Why was English our 11th best player according to our B & F? He wasn't close to 10th either, in fact 34 votes behind West. There's no excuses for it, injuries and the like.

Our gameplan revolves heavily around our midfield and all indications lead to that English is a weak link. Even the coaches think so looking at the results, I just wish we would actually address it for once.



I'm not debating who's better, I think we can agree that both are good player's though? We need good players and I think it would allow us to release one player to the back line.

Part of it is also, I follow the draft and I don't really rate the draft and I'm happy to part with our first round pick more then other year's. Based on probability, the player we pick is more then likely be a B grader, so I'm happy to trade it. I don't think we will trade it, but I think we should if we can.

We are in a premiership window, not convinced we are trying hard enough or thinking creatively enough.

We were #1 for scores from stoppages differential in 2025, and scoring at a rate of almost double that of the team in 2nd. Stoppages aren't the problem.



Source: Wheelo

 

[DannyB4]

Premiership window? Hard to see it.
We weren't really competitive against 7 of the 8 teams above us on the ladder. Hard to see any natural improvement from the majority of the players, with just a couple of exceptions. No magical imports on the horizon. Highly rated midfield players are approaching the end of their careers, support players are just ordinary. Backline is only C grade. Forward line could possibly be B+ or A-, but who is going to deliver to them? Followers are vanilla. Game plan of high-press has been proven to be ineffective and needs a complete overhaul. (Wasn't it refreshing to see the VFL team play normal football? And it worked!)
It seems very likely that the WBFC will continue to butcher the careers of Bont, Darcy and Naughton.

Weren't competitive? We may not have won but we were definitely competitive. Most games were within 2 goals.

 

[BLACAE]

The Dogs were competitive in just about every game, but were incredibly uncompetitive in individual quarters.

In virtually every loss we were destroyed in 1 qtr.
Freo - 7 goals against
Brisbane - 2 qtrs of 7 goals against
Suns - 6 goals
Cats - 6 and 5 goals
Hawks - 5 goals
Crows - 6 goals
Lions - 5 goals
Demons - 7 goals (win)
Freo - 7 goals again.

The only loss where we didn't get blown away in a qtr was Collingwood. You can't win games like that, and given our games played and age demographic, it shouldn't be happening. Some of these games, it wasn't the forwards beating us either, we had a huge amount of goals kicked against us by resting mids, or mids who ran forward.

 

[Here we go dogs]

The saints paying JSOS 850 - 900k is laughable when they didn’t offer Battle the same last year. Who is a vastly superior player.

 

[dogwatch]

I have mostly been aligned with gcbc's thinking on Tim English. There was early promise that he would become one of the outstanding rucks in the AFL but it has seemed to us that he has never quite lived up to it. It may be partly to do with his build - as BigFloppa suggested - but whatever the reason he doesn't impose himself on games the way traditional dominant rucks do. One AA blazer notwithstanding.

He has always seemed so tantalisingly close to being the ruck we wanted that we have persevered with him, extended his contract and passed up opportunities to get other rucks just entering their prime years. Also Bevo clearly likes the extra midfielder role that Tim plays.

He's definitely not a liability. This wasn't his best year as the CSM result indicated but he has still been pretty competitive when I've watched him. Even in his tap work.

I was interested in how the stats looked for 2025, which was an average sort of year for Tim. So, using Wheelo Ratings, I compiled a table of relevant (and some not so relevant) stats for Tim compared to the ruckmen of the four sides that played off in the Preliminary Finals this year. (Minimum 5 games and 30 ruck contests per game.) The six others who qualified were:

Oscar McInerney (Bris)​

Darcy Fort (Bris)​

Mark Blicavs (Gee)​

Rhys Stanley (Gee)​

Darcy Cameron (Coll)​

Lloyd Meek (Haw)​

I was surprised at the result.
You might need a PC or tablet screen to view the table below. Of the 83 competitive stats (I chucked out a few trivial or irrelevant ones) English ranked:

1st in 26 of them (31%)​

2nd in 20 of them (24%)​

3rd in 11 of them (13%)​

He only ranked below average (4th) in 17 of the stats (20%) only one of which was a specialist ruck stat. Of the non-ruck stats that he ranked below average I'd say only the following are of genuine significance:

• Hard ball gets (7th)
• Pressure acts (5th)
• Ground ball gets (5th)
• and maybe Stoppage Clearances (5th)

Of the specialist ruck stats the main ones of interest are:

• % HitOuts won (7th)
• Hitouts to Advantage Total (2nd)
• % HitOuts to Advantage (1st)
• Ruck Hard Ball Gets (4th)

So while Tim doesn't win a high proportion of the taps, that stat may be overrated if they don't result in genuine advantage to his teammates. Where they result in advantage he ranks top! Only Cameron and Meek came close.

Here's the table (source: Wheelo). Ranking 1-7 is colour coded in right hand column. The specialist ruck stats are the highlighted rows. I have inverted the sort order for a few items (eg Turnovers) to reflect their undesirability.




Also of interest is that English is the second youngest of all these ruckmen. Now there are obviously ruckmen around who performed better in 2025 (eg Xerri) but my point is that English rates quite well overall against the ruckmen of the teams who finished 1-4 in 2025. Or to put it another way, you don't need to have the best ruck in the league to be successful at the pointy end of the season. They just need to be honest and competitive.

There is still an obvious tension between what the stats say and what the eye sees, but I suspect Bevo's ongoing support for English is based on the fact that a winning tap ruckman isn't going to be that decisive. However a handy tap ruckman who excels around the ground could be decisive.

I would still like to see English be more physically imposing but there may be other ways to compensate for that (eg as I have been saying for a while we need more hard-bodied tough bastards in the seniors, especially at the stoppages).

To the above stats add the following considerations:

• the introduction of the last-disposal free kick between the arcs in 2026 will slightly reduce the number of stoppages
• the end of the centre bounce (I have a feeling the greater predictability might work slightly in Tim's favour)
• the fact that a ruckman's prime years are typically age 27-32, so Tim is just entering that period.

 

[ossie_21]

Premiership window? Hard to see it.
We weren't really competitive against 7 of the 8 teams above us on the ladder. Hard to see any natural improvement from the majority of the players, with just a couple of exceptions. No magical imports on the horizon. Highly rated midfield players are approaching the end of their careers, support players are just ordinary. Backline is only C grade. Forward line could possibly be B+ or A-, but who is going to deliver to them? Followers are vanilla. Game plan of high-press has been proven to be ineffective and needs a complete overhaul. (Wasn't it refreshing to see the VFL team play normal football? And it worked!)
It seems very likely that the WBFC will continue to butcher the careers of Bont, Darcy and Naughton.

The only 2 games we never looked like winning all season were v Hawks & Crows. Even the Crows game we were in it for longer, but always seemed to be a step behind. Hawks dominated us start to finish because we always let Newcombe go untouched.

Sure, it means we butchered far too many chances a professional team ever should, but only a few tweaks & personnel changes could easily flip the script.

I just hope we are looking to be bold, as every other contender looks like they will be aggressive where they can too.