Rumour Speculation, Rumours, Lies Thread 2025 - Part 2

[steve9798]

Nathan Van Berlin is a huge problem. Surely it’s worth getting a highly rated midfield coach. We have the Burgess soft cap money to burn.

we have scoured the earth to get the best damn midfield coach we can get and we just found him working in the same facility.

L murphy

 

[George CantStandYa]

Honestly, I think the "trade in some more midfielders" plan is just papering over the cracks

The players we were rumored to target all had significant flaws to the deal. Petracca's age and massive contract, Steele is cooked, Oliver is maybe cooked (physically and mentally), Sanders is inexperienced

We have enough midfielders on the list, we're just not getting enough out of them. The sum of the parts we have is operating below peak capacity by a large amount.

The reason we think we need to trade in midfielders is because we have failed to develop ours. That's what needed fixing. Those players listed above are stopgaps at best and not a long term solution. We only need to trade in because we can't develop them at the club.

A new set of midfield structures, new coaches, new development coaches. That's a lot more disappointing than the trade situation.

We should be developing our side towards a 2027 peak with four elite midfielders (Dawson, Rankine, Draper, Curtin) and some solid complementary pieces (Soligo, Peatling, Edwards, etc.). A multi All Australian in there, a potential All Australian mid forward, a top 5 draft pick, and a top 10 draft pick. That sounds like a fantastic set of building blocks.

But our coaches suck

Can’t remember who it was, but someone on trade radio or SEN yesterday, he stated the obvious which is how important development is and you’ve got the resources.

Now I reckon we can develop defenders and forwards well, but midfield we are a disaster. Soligo and Berry are 2 mids we’ve developed in how many years? Honestly when is the last decent one before them and I’m not calling Berry decent.

We’ve drafted mids but they haven’t developed, seeing what we have done with Draper and how we develop mids, I think it has to be 75% coaching/development and the 25% drafting.

I love the Nicks fanbois to address this, but of course it will be crickets.

 

[CrowinNT]

It's been a longstanding problem. We haven't had an elite mid since Dangerfield and Sloane for half of 2016.

Was only thinking this morning
Who is the gun pure midfielder we have recruited since Danger ?
Absolutely none

 

[kirky]

Gee it is so easy to sit on the sidelines and take potshots at people.
From what I have read on here over the past 2 to 3 years, there are many here who should be putting their hands up to take over almost every position in our Club as they believe that they could do a better job (the proof of the pudding is in the eating so would be interested to see how that goes - not!!).
Let's be honest, yes, we have a number of areas right across the Club that need addressing. But other than employing the guys who continually on here imply they can do a better job, it is not an easy task. Reidy has shown over the past few years he is a good operator.
This year it seems all Clubs are becoming harder to deal with as they are trying to take back some of the ground that the players have taken over the past few seasons.
Coaching and gaining new players is a team effort. To me the team has a few weak links but to find the right people to replace those links is difficult in a VFL controlled system.
I think it about time all on here started attacking the ball rather than the man!!!!

Perhaps you should enquire why the likes of Murphy and topup players were playing in the midfield in the SANFL instead of you know our drafted midfield players.

 

[daniel_4tw]

I also think the reason clubs aren’t open to trading is because draft picks just aren’t worth anything anymore.

With Academies, F/S and FA compo, unless you’re getting the first handful of picks, they’re all speculative. Even second rounders are now in the 40s which is a shot in the dark almost as much as third and fourth rounders.

It’s why even with AFL changing the rules for Geelong, their 3x first rounders are worth very little.

 

[Scorpus]

I also think the reason clubs aren’t open to trading is because draft picks just aren’t worth anything anymore.

With Academies, F/S and FA compo, unless you’re getting the first handful of picks, they’re all speculative. Even second rounders are now in the 40s which is a shot in the dark almost as much as third and fourth rounders.

It’s why even with AFL changing the rules for Geelong, their 3x first rounders are worth very little.

Clubs also have no resources to invest in development coaches thanks to the soft cap

 

[Slim258]

Can’t remember who it was, but someone on trade radio or SEN yesterday, he stated the obvious which is how important development is and you’ve got the resources.

Now I reckon we can develop defenders and forwards well, but midfield we are a disaster. Soligo and Berry are 2 mids we’ve developed in how many years? Honestly when is the last decent one before them and I’m not calling Berry decent.

We’ve drafted mids but they haven’t developed, seeing what we have done with Draper and how we develop mids, I think it has to be 75% coaching/development and the 25% drafting.

I love the Nicks fanbois to address this, but of course it will be crickets.

Is Nicks the Head of Development now as well?

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

I saw this reported somewhere else earlier this year but I forget where. Something about how Reid was one of the more difficult list managers to work with.

its something Lloyd claimed

 

[bigman]

No club would give pick 16 for an out of contract Ah Chee. No reason for us to be bullied into it. Future second and the earliest of our thirds this year is enough.

 

[Thrillthorpe7]

Yep not much at all

• We don't have academy access like the Lions and GC, nothing we can do about that
• Curnow and Marshall don't look like happening for Geelong, Worpel is hardly moving the needle
• GC have infinite 1st round picks to offer for Petracca and he also didn't want to move to Adelaide, no idea why he even bothered visiting us
• GWS already have Tom Green, their pursuit of Oliver is just weird and doesn't improve them at all
• Essendon have been strong about Merrett staying and Hawks seemingly need to pay massive overs to change their mind
• Ah Chee improves our team

IF Sydney end up with Curnow, they can absolutely jump back up the ladder next year. Hopefully he stays at Carlton.

 

[GreyCrow]

Gee it is so easy to sit on the sidelines and take potshots at people.
From what I have read on here over the past 2 to 3 years, there are many here who should be putting their hands up to take over almost every position in our Club as they believe that they could do a better job (the proof of the pudding is in the eating so would be interested to see how that goes - not!!).

Yes I could but the club wouldnt want me. Im not a yes man

Let's be honest, yes, we have a number of areas right across the Club that need addressing. But other than employing the guys who continually on here imply they can do a better job, it is not an easy task. Reidy has shown over the past few years he is a good operator.

Why not move people on? We have tried certain people for a long time and get no results. Wouldnt you move them on?

Even the argument about people not wanting to come here ( which has truth ) can be thwarted by looking to the SANFL

Mattner Reeve Bassett (Mark) Stone who was talked up all have AFL experience and all were available

If its not working then move people on

 

[Peter Doherty]

That’s an option too. But it’s different to Pete’s claim that he has ‘a right to choose his new employer like every other Australian’. That’s fantasy land stuff, he can only move yo us via the mechanisms provided by the AFL. And if that falls down then he’s subject to being taken by another club, regardless of his wishes. And the only way that changes is by dismantling the rules, which won’t happen without Ah Chee winning in court.

I do think front loading $2m into year 1 would see him get to us in either draft.

These don't go to court and it's not because he wouldn't have a solid case. It's because there's a tremendous amount of goodwill from all participants. It won't go to court.

There's either a trade that gets done, or we get him in the draft.

There is the option he gets his head turned by WC and agrees to go there. The goodwill from the participants includes WC, if he doesn't want to go there they will not pick him.

 

[Scorpus]

We’ve drafted mids but they haven’t developed, seeing what we have done with Draper and how we develop mids, I think it has to be 75% coaching/development and the 25% drafting.

I love the Nicks fanbois to address this, but of course it will be crickets.

Even if you say "well we've drafted a lot of players that weren't midfielders that we want to turn into midfielders"

Look at some of these draft profiles from Rookie Me

Chayce Jones - "Jones is a natural ball-winner who can win possession on the inside and outside of the contest."
Luke Pedlar - "A midfield bull is a common term [...] and Pedlar fits that term more than any other draft prospect this year."
Charlie Edwards - "Midfielder. Strengths: clean hands, kicking, running capacity, big-bodied"
Sid Draper- "An ultra professional and fleet of foot midfielder with more senior experience than any top draft prospect in 2024."

Josh Rachele - "One of the most freakishly talented players in this year's draft crop is Josh Rachele, a dynamic midfielder-forward"
Izak Rankine - "The small forward/midfielder can do incredible things on a football field that most others would never consider attempting."
Dan Curtin - "Across his career, he has been used in basically every position. He moves like a natural on-baller and is often used as a receiver who can gather the ball on the run and send it forward by foot."

Four first round picks, three inside the first dozen, on players who were definitely described primarily as midfielders at AFL level. And another three single digit picks used on players with midfield versatility

Okay not every draft pick works out. But look at Hawthorn from before, or Geelong. We have significantly more top end midfielders on our list than either of those clubs.

 

[GreyCrow]

• We don't have academy access like the Lions and GC, nothing we can do about that
• Curnow and Marshall don't look like happening for Geelong, Worpel is hardly moving the needle
• GC have infinite 1st round picks to offer for Petracca and he also didn't want to move to Adelaide, no idea why he even bothered visiting us
• GWS already have Tom Green, their pursuit of Oliver is just weird and doesn't improve them at all
• Essendon have been strong about Merrett staying and Hawks seemingly need to pay massive overs to change their mind
• Ah Chee improves our team

IF Sydney end up with Curnow, they can absolutely jump back up the ladder next year. Hopefully he stays at Carlton.

Instead of crying about what other clubs have why dont we try and improve ours? Going in with the same group and expecting different results is a form of insanity

Control what you can control and dont worry what the opposition have

 

[Jetwa5h]

• We don't have academy access like the Lions and GC, nothing we can do about that
• Curnow and Marshall don't look like happening for Geelong, Worpel is hardly moving the needle
• GC have infinite 1st round picks to offer for Petracca and he also didn't want to move to Adelaide, no idea why he even bothered visiting us
• GWS already have Tom Green, their pursuit of Oliver is just weird and doesn't improve them at all
• Essendon have been strong about Merrett staying and Hawks seemingly need to pay massive overs to change their mind
• Ah Chee improves our team

IF Sydney end up with Curnow, they can absolutely jump back up the ladder next year. Hopefully he stays at Carlton.

Does Curnow get the same umpiring there?

 

[Thrillthorpe7]

Just remember that this is our investment into the midfield. This theory we haven't spent picks on the midfield during our rebuild is false.

Jordan Dawson - 2x All Australian
Izak Rankine - Pick 3, AA squad, traded in for pick 5
Sid Draper - Pick 4
Josh Rachele (maybe) - Pick 6
Dan Curtin (maybe) - Pick 8
Chayce Jones - Pick 9
Luke Pedlar - Pick 11
Charlie Edwards - Pick 21
Sam Berry - Pick 28
Jake Soligo - Pick 36
James Peatling - traded in, mid-season pick

We could play as many as four top 10 picks in the midfield if we wanted to. We have at least two top 10 pick mid-forwards and a top 5 pure midfielder

Hawthorn's midfield that smashed us was

Josh Ward - pick 7
James Worpel - pick 45
Jai Newcombe - AA squad, mid-season pick
Conor Nash - international pick
(Cam McKenzie - pick 7, did not play)
(Will Day - pick 13, did not play)

Not sure why you forgot to also highlight our best player (Rankine) didn't play, given you were happy to highlight that for the Hawks. Rachele was also coming off a 3 month injury. I've got no idea why you and others on here continue to refuse that obviously hurt our midfield in finals; maybe we still don't win if the Hawks have Day available, but it would've been a far closer contest.

Josh Ward has also been in the system longer than Draper and Curtin and has been a slow burn that played a lot of VFL.

I'm sure the usual suspects on here will lap your post up though and I'll cop laugh reacts or trolling.

 

[1970crow]

I also think the reason clubs aren’t open to trading is because draft picks just aren’t worth anything anymore.

With Academies, F/S and FA compo, unless you’re getting the first handful of picks, they’re all speculative. Even second rounders are now in the 40s which is a shot in the dark almost as much as third and fourth rounders.

It’s why even with AFL changing the rules for Geelong, their 3x first rounders are worth very little.

Calling them second rounders has become meaningless but they still maintain their numeric value. Pick 28 is still pick 28, whether it’s a first rounder or second rounder, it’s giving you a pick after 27 players have been removed from the pool. There’s definitely a couple of minor variables that can occur. But the clubs all know these going in and have a clear understanding of the value of the pick.

 

[1970crow]

Is Nicks the Head of Development now as well?

Head of Development ultimately reports through to Nicks, so he is in charge of development.

 

[Scorpus]

Not sure why you forgot to also highlight our best player (Rankine) didn't play, given you were happy to highlight that for the Hawks. Rachele was also coming off a 3 month injury. I've got no idea why you and others on here continue to refuse that obviously hurt our midfield in finals; maybe we still don't win if the Hawks have Day available, but it would've been a far closer contest.

Josh Ward has also been in the system longer than Draper and Curtin and has been a slow burn that played a lot of VFL.

I'm sure the usual suspects on here will lap your post up though and I'll cop laugh reacts or trolling.

Does it matter? I was mostly highlighting our investment into the midfield, which has been huge, not virtually nothing like I've seen posted on this forum.

If Hawthorn were at full strength and we were missing Rankine and Rachele, we still would have been able to field more top midfield talents than them if we wanted to

Pedlar, Jones and Draper alone is as many first round midfielders as is on Hawthorn's entire list

The point is that Hawthorn were able to cobble together a finals winning midfield that include a pick in the 40s, a mid-season pick and someone from Ireland, while we've been unable to develop a midfield from half a dozen top end picks.

Do we actually need to trade in more midfielders? I don't think so. We need to better develop and coach the talented group we already have

 

[moses]

No way Hawks are letting Day go, but is anyone worried about the long term impacts from his persistent foot issues? Has ended careers before if you can't get it right

That would be my worry.

 

[Thrillthorpe7]

Instead of crying about what other clubs have why dont we try and improve ours? Going in with the same group and expecting different results is a form of insanity

Control what you can control and dont worry what the opposition have

I'm not crying about anything, just giving you the facts. We aren't going in with the same group of players either. What else do you realistically think the club could have done this trade period?

The only good players available are under contract and clubs are finally starting to show some backbone and hold them to these contracts. We offered NWM a heap of money, were happy to pay a heap for Petracca but can't do much about the location of our club, had a swing at Sanders and even had a swing at Merrett.

Load the truck up and convince Bailey to come here next year, at least that won't require a trade.

 

[Slim258]

Instead of crying about what other clubs have why dont we try and improve ours? Going in with the same group and expecting different results is a form of insanity

Control what you can control and dont worry what the opposition have

You remember we did go 18-5, we beat the eventual premiers, we also beat the two teams who we lost to in the finals.

We also went the back end of the year without a key cog in defence and our most prolific small forward, we lost our best player for the finals after a disaster of a media circus that zapped every ounce of energy out of the club.

It’s not all panic stations yet my man, our kids are good, our leaders are good, our backline is top 4 and our forward line (fit) is top 4 in the comp, so we need to get some work done and natural progression through the midfield with Draper and Curtin, then add in Brisbane’s Mr Fixit as well and then just need our coaches to figure out a couple of Plan B’s and C’s and I think we’ll be alright

 

[Slim258]

Head of Development ultimately reports through to Nicks, so he is in charge of development.

Pretty sure it now reports into Murray, but sure thing

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Even if you say "well we've drafted a lot of players that weren't midfielders that we want to turn into midfielders"

Look at some of these draft profiles from Rookie Me

Chayce Jones - "Jones is a natural ball-winner who can win possession on the inside and outside of the contest."
Luke Pedlar - "A midfield bull is a common term [...] and Pedlar fits that term more than any other draft prospect this year."
Charlie Edwards - "Midfielder. Strengths: clean hands, kicking, running capacity, big-bodied"
Sid Draper- "An ultra professional and fleet of foot midfielder with more senior experience than any top draft prospect in 2024."

Josh Rachele - "One of the most freakishly talented players in this year's draft crop is Josh Rachele, a dynamic midfielder-forward"
Izak Rankine - "The small forward/midfielder can do incredible things on a football field that most others would never consider attempting."
Dan Curtin - "Across his career, he has been used in basically every position. He moves like a natural on-baller and is often used as a receiver who can gather the ball on the run and send it forward by foot."

Four first round picks, three inside the first dozen, on players who were definitely described primarily as midfielders at AFL level. And another three single digit picks used on players with midfield versatility

Okay not every draft pick works out. But look at Hawthorn from before, or Geelong. We have significantly more top end midfielders on our list than either of those clubs.

Look, you really don't have much feel for the game ....

B4 posting the above players, how about also adding their age & experience .....what you are implying is Draper is a failed pick, because he didn't show a lot in year 1 ......where the lack of "feel for the game" comes in, is you completely discount Draper's injury history

Why are you talking Rankine ....dramatic mayonnaise ......he was leading our B&F for a large part of the season .....when Rachelle got injured (which you also dismiss in your argument) .....Rankine played fwd more for two reasons a) to manage him b) to cover the small fwd role for Rachelle's injury

Curtin almost wins the Rising Star in his 2nd year .....but you claim he's not being developed as a MID .....yet he's played important patches of games as a MID this year, and will get more next year ......year 3 as a Mid, is not a Club either holding him back or not developing him

But such is your anti-Club .....or should I say your pessimistic outlook on life .....that you can only see the downside of every situation

 

[GreyCrow]

I'm not crying about anything, just giving you the facts. We aren't going in with the same group of players either. What else do you realistically think the club could have done this trade period?

I was also talking coaching group.

But you were crying '' oh look he has more ice cream than me ''

Control what you can control. We can control who we have as coaches. We can control how we develop our players. We can control who we pick each week.

The only good players available are under contract and clubs are finally starting to show some backbone and hold them to these contracts. We offered NWM a heap of money, were happy to pay a heap for Petracca but can't do much about the location of our club, had a swing at Sanders and even had a swing at Merrett.

And if you read back I have given credit to the club for all of these . Happy we took the swing.