List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[aidansbonor]

Try an actual written response next time.

C'mon tho why give the membership department sh1t, doesn't make any sense. Do you think they have an answer or responsible, probably not

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Blues might take him as coach

How dare you

 

[mad-saint-guy]

121 centre bounces this year

Okay fair, he bumped up to 0.7 center clearances per game this year. Nothing spectacular but not too bad for an occasional mid. Still doesn't change the fact that he hasn't averaged more than 1.1 goal per game in a season since 2021 (not going to count his 2023 average of 1.3 from 3 games).

Look I'm not mad about bringing in Ryan, I just think some people need to adjust their expectations. We're not going to suddenly see vintage 2019 Ryan, and even that version only managed to kick 30 goals from 24 games. He was AA in the bizarre covid season (26 goals from 18 games) and Dan Butler probably should have gotten that small forward spot instead (29 goals from 19 games) but Ryan had the bigger name from his early-career highlights taking hangers.

 

[stavro#4]

Wait ! Wait!
Steelo said he was prepared to accept all that! And still wanted to stay! What more could a club ask for from a player?

It seems simple now to my peanut brain. Ross wanted him out. That's all.

We are giving him to Melbourne and paying a chunk of his salary, but if Ross wants it, so be it. I'm backing Ross. I can't see five better St Kilda midfielders based on output so far. On potential - sure, the sky is the limit. Why not?

Steele said he wanted to fight for his spot without any burden of expectation (captaincy) and to be just like any other player.

Ross Was fine with this. But also explained that where his form was at during points of the most recent season would see Jack playing VFL going forward. That both parties agreed that what’s on the list is ready to push Jack for those pure midfield minutes but everyone not named Macrae is pretty much a versatile player (Macrae could play half forward).

So Ross gave the option to look around and they would accomodate a deal.

Honest. Respectful. Genuine conversation apparently

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Steele said he wanted to fight for his spot without any burden of expectation (captaincy) and to be just like any other player.

Ross Was fine with this. But also explained that where his form was at during points of the most recent season would see Jack playing VFL going forward. That both parties agreed that what’s on the list is ready to push Jack for those pure midfield minutes but everyone not named Macrae is pretty much a versatile player (Macrae could play half forward).

So Ross gave the option to look around and they would accomodate a deal.

Honest. Respectful. Genuine conversation apparently

Macrae would love that, not
Pushed out of the Doggies midfield, now with us you reckon.

 

[stavro#4]

Okay fair, he bumped up to 0.7 center clearances per game this year. Nothing spectacular but not too bad for an occasional mid. Still doesn't change the fact that he hasn't averaged more than 1.1 goal per game in a season since 2021 (not going to count his 2023 average of 1.3 from 3 games).

Look I'm not mad about bringing in Ryan, I just think some people need to adjust their expectations. We're not going to suddenly see vintage 2019 Ryan, and even that version only managed to kick 30 goals from 24 games. He was AA in the bizarre covid season (26 goals from 18 games) and Dan Butler probably should have gotten that small forward spot instead (29 goals from 19 games) but Ryan had the bigger name from his early-career highlights taking hangers.

At the eagles he is probably the second or third forward you Plan for currently.

He is 5th or 6th for us. You probably don’t plan for him at this point to be honest.

Can only be of value for us.

 

[stavro#4]

Macrae would love that, not
Pushed out of the Doggies midfield, now with us you reckon.

Knew exactly what he signed up for.

He wasn’t any chance of a jumper in their midfield. I think he is safe in ours.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Knew exactly what he signed up for.

He wasn’t any chance of a jumper in their midfield. I think he is safe in ours.

He didn't sign up with us to be H.F, know that with certainty.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Spare a thought for poor old Dalrymple, who's year long scouting of draftees now basically pans out to picking up our NGA and promoting rookies

View attachment 2459238

The Rymp does his best work with later picks. Hasn't got the greatest first round record but has a knack for finding gold late. Evidently we're stocking up on 2027 third rounders to let him go wild.

 

[maanco]

This highlights the problem with moving on Steele to be tbh. This is still a hopeful starting midfield mix.

Flanders and Nas have still played a lot of their best football at half back and have played 0 games together. Add to that Macrae and Flanders have both had recent injury concerns. And all our back ups to this mix, namely Windhager, Garcia, Pou and Boxshall are all still speculative/injury prone themselves.

We also aren’t improving our list by moving on Steele, we got a future third for him.

The move is to reminiscent of the Membery move from last year for me.

Move on a bloke who still has good footy left in him for nothing because someone should be able to step up and take his place instead of seeing if the kid actually earns it first. Don’t rate the move at all. We’re putting aside our hearts but not even actually gaining anything for it.

It's got to be primarily his contract length/salary it might be harder to trade him in 2026.

I.e. how do we open a list spot and salary space.

It's the only thing that makes sense given his reluctance to leave and the nothing pick we got for him.

It's very similar to the Hawthorne trades of Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis trades in 2016

 

[SG34]

Steele said he wanted to fight for his spot without any burden of expectation (captaincy) and to be just like any other player.

Ross Was fine with this. But also explained that where his form was at during points of the most recent season would see Jack playing VFL going forward. That both parties agreed that what’s on the list is ready to push Jack for those pure midfield minutes but everyone not named Macrae is pretty much a versatile player (Macrae could play half forward).

So Ross gave the option to look around and they would accomodate a deal.

Honest. Respectful. Genuine conversation apparently

I think there is conflation of the idea, ‘you’ll be playing some VFL’ and ‘you’ll never get picked again’ in this version of events. And in any case, Steele said, ‘I’m OK with that’ ..so firsts or seconds, he wants to stay.
Now second conflation is that, ‘Ross says you are welcome to look’ with ‘Steele wants to leave’ or ‘they all agreed’..and so on..
I’m just sticking to what I heard on rumors here and YouTube of course…but that is what I see. He desperately wanted to stay, is what I heard.
So the saints shunted him off anyway, and will pay part of his salary , for peanuts.
I’m ok with that, I am backing the boss all the way!
But we are writing a tale here.

So now I’m gonna make a conflation, that telling him that (you’re welcome to explore) means, the coach doesn’t want him, either as a seconds or thirds player or orange boy. Ross has his favorites and Steele clearly wasn’t one.

 

[stfan]

This highlights the problem with moving on Steele to be tbh. This is still a hopeful starting midfield mix.

Flanders and Nas have still played a lot of their best football at half back and have played 0 games together. Add to that Macrae and Flanders have both had recent injury concerns. And all our back ups to this mix, namely Windhager, Garcia, Pou and Boxshall are all still speculative/injury prone themselves.

We also aren’t improving our list by moving on Steele, we got a future third for him.

The move is to reminiscent of the Membery move from last year for me.

Move on a bloke who still has good footy left in him for nothing because someone should be able to step up and take his place instead of seeing if the kid actually earns it first. Don’t rate the move at all. We’re putting aside our hearts but not even actually gaining anything for it.

"The move is to reminiscent of the Membrey move from last year for me."

It is, but not in the way you mean.

Sharman was better than Membrey was this year. Tim would have been in the VFL with us most games in 2025. If Max had not gotten injured, even more so.

In 2026 he would not get 1 game with our seniors. Sharman, Owens, Phillipou, Taura would all be picked before Tim.

Steele is pretty much they same. He may have snuck in a few games in 2026, and not at all in 2027.

Macrae is better than Steele at present. And if some of our kids step up next year, even Macrae may be struggling to keep his place.. Macrae AND Steele is not viable in 2026.

Steele was a great player for us, but he had reached his use by date with us.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Okay fair, he bumped up to 0.7 center clearances per game this year. Nothing spectacular but not too bad for an occasional mid. Still doesn't change the fact that he hasn't averaged more than 1.1 goal per game in a season since 2021 (not going to count his 2023 average of 1.3 from 3 games).

Look I'm not mad about bringing in Ryan, I just think some people need to adjust their expectations. We're not going to suddenly see vintage 2019 Ryan, and even that version only managed to kick 30 goals from 24 games. He was AA in the bizarre covid season (26 goals from 18 games) and Dan Butler probably should have gotten that small forward spot instead (29 goals from 19 games) but Ryan had the bigger name from his early-career highlights taking hangers.

That's his benefits over Butler is Ryan can take a mark and he occasionally blind sides the opposition with a blitzing tackle.

Lyon will get him playing with that edge again, having defenders second guessing themselves.

 

[tassiesaint2024]

That was a rumour from one anonymous BF poster.

What was public knowledge was he bought his under aged teammates alcohol and got suspended for ten weeks, I think. Missed the champs.

What was also known was that even just an 18.y.o new recruit, he turned up to preseason very unfit and had to be put on a special training program.

Seemed to have learnt his lesson as he got very fit, but he never seemed to have a game day presence and hardly ever used his one true weapon.

As someone else said always seemed to run to the outside of the play onto a wing or hf demanding the ball. very rarely did he get his own.

A shame, pick 62 I think so worth a throw at the stumps.

Where there’s smoke…

In all reality - he’s a very immature kid that, like I said earlier, has got by on talent rather than hard work.

Not sure the penny will ever drop for him unfortunately. Will probably sign for the Tassie VFL side, but wouldn’t completely shock if Clayton avoided him.

As an aside, ok with keeping Byrnes out of the 3 of them. He’s frustrating, but puts in elite effort.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I wonder what effect trading Steele will have on the remaining group? They voted him in as captain so they obviously loved and respected him. I'm sure Jack being traded will be addressed by Lyon and co, but they would only be human if there was some degree of resentment.

Hopefully it sets new standards for the group and they realise that the current management will stop at nothing to achieve success.

Personally I would have backed Jack to refind his form, but I get the impression that Ross has put a line through him and they werent that fond of each other.

Hopefully now the remainder realise that if you don't perform and keep improving there will be no longer a position for you at the club. It's ruthless but we obviously needed change!

 

[Sully111]

John Ralph is a piece of shit.

I'm already tired of the narrative around Steele

Apparently the better thing to do would be to not have an honest conversation with Jack so he could explore options if he chose to.... you just drop him next year and see him potentially finish his career in the VFL

Tired of Ralph with his sly passive aggressive bullshit. Such a punchable face.

 

[bird_man]

Seems like your writing him off

Not at all

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

View attachment 2458765

no wonder he wanted to leave, the salary cap at saints is so stuffed, they are paying him in beer! thanks to the good sponsors at Thirsty Camel i guess...and who says 3rd party payments dont work!

he didn't really want to leave, he just needs to sleep it off

 

[phantom13]

So does AC go to PSD now?

Yeh that’s what his dickhead manager said (same manager as Nas too)

 

[ronnysnodgrass]

I'm already tired of the narrative around Steele

Apparently the better thing to do would be to not have an honest conversation with Jack so he could explore options if he chose to.... you just drop him next year and see him potentially finish his career in the VFL

Tired of Ralph with his sly passive aggressive bullshit. Such a punchable face.

My view on a lot of the stuff we did this year is pretty simple: if you're not first, you're the first loser......

I feel for the players (especially Jack) but its clear this was the year Clubs said "enough".....

And I think we moved the quickest to adopt a model that is fairly battle hardened in the US, and I would be very surprised if other clubs didn't do the same thing next year.....

 

[Ilovewindy]

**** I want to punch Damien Barrett’s glasses straight through his head. ****ing nerdy w***er. Perpetually bagging out the club

 

[stavro#4]

I think there is conflation of the idea, ‘you’ll be playing some VFL’ and ‘you’ll never get picked again’ in this version of events. And in any case, Steele said, ‘I’m OK with that’ ..so firsts or seconds, he wants to stay.
Now second conflation is that, ‘Ross says you are welcome to look’ with ‘Steele wants to leave’ or ‘they all agreed’..and so on..
I’m just sticking to what I heard on rumors here and YouTube of course…but that is what I see. He desperately wanted to stay, is what I heard.
So the saints shunted him off anyway, and will pay part of his salary , for peanuts.
I’m ok with that, I am backing the boss all the way!
But we are writing a tale here.

So now I’m gonna make a conflation, that telling him that (you’re welcome to explore) means, the coach doesn’t want him, either as a seconds or thirds player or orange boy. Ross has his favorites and Steele clearly wasn’t one.

Jack has really dropped off and struggled in the last few years. We have more and more big bodied kids ready for midfield minutes.

I think it’s somewhat obvious he wasn’t a Ross favourite nor was Jack a Ross disciple. That’s also okay, but it shouldn’t really surprise anyone that this is the outcome. He wasn’t part of the long term future and scored an extra year on his contract to go play footy without anyone threatening his position in the side at Melbourne

 

[stavro#4]

Personally I would have backed Jack to refind his form, but I get the impression that Ross has put a line through him and they werent that fond of each other.

Statistically his last 4 seasons have been very average.

At someone it needs to be accepted that this is who he is as an afl level footballer

 

[stavro#4]

He didn't sign up with us to be H.F, know that with certainty.

He came here as we had a midfield need and a plethora of baby mids needing an old head to guide them whilst playing good footy himself.

At some point, Macrae will need to step aside if we are to become the side we hope to be.

 

[beside the seaside]

**** I want to punch Damien Barrett’s glasses straight through his head. ****ing nerdy w***er. Perpetually bagging out the club

He's so bitter.