Rumour Bluemour Discussion XLI

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[BlackGoanna]

Things don't have to be totally black and white and the supporter/crowd stuff is no doubt part of it for Charlie, but that doesn't really matter.

There's no doubt that our crowd and supporter base is an issue. I've been saying it all year but the atmosphere and general tone is feral at times and there is a tendency for us to jump off and pile on players and to focus on the negatives, particularly at the end of their careers (see: Sam Docherty this year, Marc Murphy in his last year). There's also no doubt we are bigger and have had more frustration than most clubs over the journey which feeds into it. Players know this, the media knows it - it's clear. It was particularly bad this year because there was a terrible mismatch between expectations and performance and the club fed into this.

But it is also part of a broad package and the flip side is you get to play in big games on the MCG, in front of 80,000 people, 5-6 times each year. The lights are always on you at Carlton - have even a moderately good year and you'll jump into AA discussion. You'll get a bigger contract and more media and more sponsor opportunities. You get to put your name on the locker with legends of the game, and be part of a club that has 150 years of success and know that whoever turns it around and helps win a flag will be immortal, like Barassi and Jesaulenko and co.

It's all part of the package and every club has their version. Gold Coast means anonymity and nightlife but playing out of a tin shed and having 12,000 spectators. That's not going to appeal to everyone either.

Different players will want the Carlton limelight and others won't, and some will enjoy it for a few years and then want something different late in their career. I certainly don't hold anything against Charlie for that. The feral fans were great fun for 8 years and now if he wants a different experience so be it. I imagine Florent and Haywood coming the other way will rave about how good it is to get big games etc. Consider that Florent has played 186 games in 8 years, and only played in front of 80,000+ fans three times total. His new team mate at half back, Ollie Hollands, has played 16 matches in front of more than 80,000 in 3 years (65 games).

I do think we as supporters can be better at games, and less quick to negativity with the players broadly. Collingwood have turned their crowd and atmosphere into something stifling at their home games and we should be seeking to emulate that because it is winning them games, and that's what we all want, players includes.

Well said , nailed it

 

[RPCB]

Was hilarious

Petroro, D’orazio, SOS and Dodoro are the four horseman of the apocalypse.

AFL in general as an industry is very showy and “look at me”. These people know the cameras are on them and act accordingly. Like Mackie walking around hitting a wall and then walking around with his nose in the air. Then you have players like Smith, Oliver, Curnow, even Humphrey taking a photo of himself in Lygon Street because he is fully aware of the rumours around him.

 

[RiCHii]

I think you are stretching the logic there. Florent and Hayward aren’t flamboyant,highly paid full forwards subject to the type of abuse Charlie would have been.

With respect, what a crock.

We have a membership base of 100k, with that yes, you will get ferals. To blame the supporter base as a reason for a change is such a weak argument, and if it is the reason he has left then I am glad. He doesn't recall the years (2 years) where he injured but the club and supporter base looked after him and wished him well. He doesn't remember when he came back from injury and the supporters were patient and realistic what a return would look like and how he may take some time to get back into the swing of things. He doesn't remember playing in front of 90k at the G, against Collingwood and the supporters getting behind him every kick. What a crock!

The supporters got sick of the lack of effort, the lack of want to tackle, to hunt, to chase, and it wasn't like they turned after 1 week, this was over a year which saw him put in very little effort. The years of winning Coleman's were a band-aid for his lack of effort. The lack of effort was always there but at least he was kicking goals.

FWIF, I would like to just point out some stats for you with Charlie: 2023 (81 goals)






A year where he kicked 81 goals - 78 for the home and away season. In 4 games 31 goals, one of which he received 5 free kicks (Collingwood) If you factor in he beat up on some average teams, his return for the year was 47.

We received 3 first round picks and a decent player in Hayward. This deal is bigger than the Judd trade, we have made out like bandits. Time will tell if we are the winners from this trade, but, my early thoughts are a leopard doesn't change his spots. Charlie will continue to dish up the same lacklustre efforts when things don't go his way. I hope Papley sheds off those kegs that Greene said he put on because he's going to be covering a lot of KM's covering ground Charlie refuses to cover.

 

[Magruder]

I don't think anyone would dispute his workrate and dedication as a trainer, must be up there with the best. It's more his workrate on the field at times...

I get the feeling Charlie’s game is built more on his natural athletic advantages (including an aerobic base) rather than on application and grit.

Nothing more than an opinion of course but he will find it harder to be the player he was:is right now on a consistent basis. Happens to just about everyone but he may find it particularly challenging

 

[The Bighouse]

On a related note - how much extra would D’Orazio have made from this one trade versus had his 3 players all stuck to their current deals at their clubs? Presumably his original contract had him paid a % of their salaries but setting up new contracts would have triggered extra plus Charlie got an extra year too and Hayward may have got more $ too.

4% on the player contracts. $40K for CC.
Endorsements, see what he can do there..

 

[The Bighouse]

with our NGA players, he called tyson gresham tyson stengle

Yep, I heard it and confirmed Ralphy’s Stengle name bungling..

 

[SirSanchez]

Coach - Assistant Coach Discussion

We have Voss, so now who will be the Assistants? Seems like McQualter is still contracted. Scarlett taking time out... We have Power. So, who else? Tapping? Lappin? Black? Chaplin? Director of Coaching? (Is this needed?)

www.bigfooty.com

Essentially we are set for assistant coaches although other associated roles (especially development coaches) maybe added over the next month or so.

Thankyou mate. Appreciate the message and link to the assistant coach discussion.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Yeah, nah.

Richmond fans had a massive reputation of eating their own before turning things around.

Such a cop out to blame the fans.

It absolutely is. Fishbowl easy out cop out shit. Every big fan base on the planet 'feels this way'. There are very few actually bad to the core groups.

Philly Eagles and Millwall come to mind but Millwall are the type to cheer their team decapitating someone whilst losing the game so.

 

[Azzurro]

With respect, what a crock.

We have a membership base of 100k, with that yes, you will get ferals. To blame the supporter base as a reason for a change is such a weak argument, and if it is the reason he has left then I am glad. He doesn't recall the years (2 years) where he injured but the club and supporter base looked after him and wished him well. He doesn't remember when he came back from injury and the supporters were patient and realistic what a return would look like and how he may take some time to get back into the swing of things. He doesn't remember playing in front of 90k at the G, against Collingwood and the supporters getting behind him every kick. What a crock!

The supporters got sick of the lack of effort, the lack of want to tackle, to hunt, to chase, and it wasn't like they turned after 1 week, this was over a year which saw him put in very little effort. The years of winning Coleman's were a band-aid for his lack of effort. The lack of effort was always there but at least he was kicking goals.

FWIF, I would like to just point out some stats for you with Charlie: 2023 (81 goals)

View attachment 2459417
View attachment 2459418
View attachment 2459419
View attachment 2459420

A year where he kicked 81 goals - 78 for the home and away season. In 4 games 31 goals, one of which he received 5 free kicks (Collingwood) If you factor in he beat up on some average teams, his return for the year was 47.

We received 3 first round picks and a decent player in Hayward. This deal is bigger than the Judd trade, we have made out like bandits. Time will tell if we are the winners from this trade, but, my early thoughts are a leopard doesn't change his spots. Charlie will continue to dish up the same lacklustre efforts when things don't go his way. I hope Papley sheds off those kegs that Greene said he put on because he's going to be covering a lot of KM's covering ground Charlie refuses to cover.

Agree with most of the Charlie assessment, but our supporters are the worst in the league - entitled bullies, sooks and cowards who keep at the negativity and abuse long after the game is over. I wouldn't hang around for it (even without being on social media) it's a shocking vibe.

Message to all who think it's ok - take a breath and a long look in the mirror.

 

[Azzurro]

Yeah, nah.

Richmond fans had a massive reputation of eating their own before turning things around.

Such a cop out to blame the fans.

Nope. Our fans are the most vile in the league as we eat our own. The others rage against the machine, we target the boys wearing our guernsey. Massive difference.

Be part of the solution.

 

[Azzurro]

I'm not so sure we are in as bad a spot as JSOS may or may not of thought, and many others have us in.

If we didn't go down the track of replenishing now, we could of ended up there, but there is still a lot of a grade talent and a more even talent spread now.

I am sure his Dad was telling him how ****ed we were and our list was and St Kilda was the promised land, but hardly convinced thats the case.

This!

I expected GW to shake it up big time and he delivered. Cut out the divisive elements within the playing group over one off-season.

Docherty, SOS, Curnow, JSOS, TDK - all were not on the bus and doing the hokey pokey at the door (one foot in, then one foot out...)

Gone. Better for them, better for us. You need a united list to have a chance - feels like we've finally got that and enough talent to still have a say.

Still don't see how anyone beats Brisbane in the next 10 years though. Incredible.

 

[Azzurro]

Interesting theme that's come up this week about the Carlton fanbase (that's us, but the way).

Charlie's manager noted it's a very tough club to play for when you're not playing well.

Hayward mentioned in his intro video the passionate fans.

Silvagni and TDK both choosing to go elsewhere (the Saints no less!).

I think reading between the lines, here, we're dead-set lunatics and maybe there's something for us to take on board.

Self-awareness doesn't come easy to many among our rabid mob. I'll keep telling whoever it is to stop thinking they're being a hero by booing or groaning loudly as one of our players takes possession.

Stands are full of bullies who need to be slapped down.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

AFL in general as an industry is very showy and “look at me”. These people know the cameras are on them and act accordingly. Like Mackie walking around hitting a wall and then walking around with his nose in the air. Then you have players like Smith, Oliver, Curnow, even Humphrey taking a photo of himself in Lygon Street because he is fully aware of the rumours around him.

Remember the picture of that 90’s player; think it was croad from hawthawn on his phone with sunnies on as probably the defining moment.

Miss the days of my pops up on the hill at princes park sinking tinnies and laughing; while us kids were at the front hitting the banners. Waiting on the fence for the final siren to sound to run onto the ground to pat our favourite player on the back.

They were working class heroes.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

With respect, what a crock.

We have a membership base of 100k, with that yes, you will get ferals. To blame the supporter base as a reason for a change is such a weak argument, and if it is the reason he has left then I am glad. He doesn't recall the years (2 years) where he injured but the club and supporter base looked after him and wished him well. He doesn't remember when he came back from injury and the supporters were patient and realistic what a return would look like and how he may take some time to get back into the swing of things. He doesn't remember playing in front of 90k at the G, against Collingwood and the supporters getting behind him every kick. What a crock!

The supporters got sick of the lack of effort, the lack of want to tackle, to hunt, to chase, and it wasn't like they turned after 1 week, this was over a year which saw him put in very little effort. The years of winning Coleman's were a band-aid for his lack of effort. The lack of effort was always there but at least he was kicking goals.

FWIF, I would like to just point out some stats for you with Charlie: 2023 (81 goals)

View attachment 2459417
View attachment 2459418
View attachment 2459419
View attachment 2459420

A year where he kicked 81 goals - 78 for the home and away season. In 4 games 31 goals, one of which he received 5 free kicks (Collingwood) If you factor in he beat up on some average teams, his return for the year was 47.

We received 3 first round picks and a decent player in Hayward. This deal is bigger than the Judd trade, we have made out like bandits. Time will tell if we are the winners from this trade, but, my early thoughts are a leopard doesn't change his spots. Charlie will continue to dish up the same lacklustre efforts when things don't go his way. I hope Papley sheds off those kegs that Greene said he put on because he's going to be covering a lot of KM's covering ground Charlie refuses to cover.

maybe remove the 6 goals against the premiers from your argument. Getting free kicks because defenders can’t control you legally isn’t a negative

It’s really no different to Cameron this season.

 

[Ezayyak]

As good as the club has achieved during the trade period, adding pace to our midfield and evenness to our forward line, the lack of a genuine second KPD until our young ones develop, is going to be a serious concerns next year.

 

[Brezsa]

As good as the club has achieved during the trade period, adding pace to our midfield and evenness to our forward line, the lack of a genuine second KPD until our young ones develop, is going to be a serious concerns next year.

We definitely need a 2 year stop gap. Frost as an SSP?

I know we all have high hopes on Dean, but I don’t think a combo of Weitering/Dean/Gov/Young /Hayes as our tall defenders (you can argue most of those aren’t KPD) is going to cut it.

I think the Jack lose is bigger than TDK & Curnow

 

[HyphensBack]

Good point. He is privy to any issue Charlie had with Carlton. It would be negligent to send 2 of his other clients there. That tells us the issue wasn't Carlton.

Manager wanted his client more money and his cut
Its the danger of front ended contracts

 

[Azzurro]

We definitely need a 2 year stop gap. Frost as an SSP?

I know we all have high hopes on Dean, but I don’t think a combo of Weitering/Dean/Gov/Young /Hayes as our tall defenders (you can argue most of those aren’t KPD) is going to cut it.

I think the Jack lose is bigger than TDK & Curnow

I keep thinking the same - we need mature capable cover, not a superstar. Surely there's a KPP or 2 in the V/WA/SAN/ whatever FL that would be reliable enough in case we need to break glass?

 

[bradfisher14]

Our fans are the most vile in the league as we eat our own.

Be part of the solution.

Cut out the divisive disease within the playing group over one off-season.

Docherty, SOS, Curnow, JSOS, TDK

 

[Brezsa]

I keep thinking the same - we need mature capable cover, not a superstar. Surely there's a KPP or 2 in the V/WA/SAN/ whatever FL that would be reliable enough in case we need to break glass?

I more in the camp of let’s not grab a VFL/WAFL etc player, rather someone who has been at the level. Just because you know exactly what you are getting, especially in the mature category. But overall we agree & im sure the club does aswell, so we will get something I’m sure

In all seriousness as the game has changed, their are lots of teams that don’t have the second traditional tall, so the requirement of playing 2 is reducing (maybe the 5 bench rule changes this) it maybe a position you can role stop gaps through instead of using draft or trading capital.

 

[RiCHii]

Agree with most of the Charlie assessment, but our supporters are the worst in the league - entitled bullies, sooks and cowards who keep at the negativity and abuse long after the game is over. I wouldn't hang around for it (even without being on social media) it's a shocking vibe.

Message to all who think it's ok - take a breath and a long look in the mirror.

Cannot argue with that. However, it's across the board. If Charlie thinks it's going to change at Sydney, he is in for a shock. It may be a little diluted. But it will still be there.

Either way I think we have done well in the trade. He wanted to go; we got a very good return for him.

 

[HyphensBack]

4% on the player contracts. $40K for CC.
Endorsements, see what he can do there..

But wouldn’t Charlie also have got the back end of his front ended contract sorted as well
ie not getting paid $6-700k the next four years so say 4 years at a $M each
We should ask for our front end premiums back

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Nope. Our fans are the most vile in the league as we eat our own. The others rage against the machine, we target the boys wearing our guernsey. Massive difference.

Be part of the solution.

Absolute nonsense. Absolute nonsense. Completely and utterly bulldust

 

[Number_9]

Absolute nonsense. Absolute nonsense. Completely and utterly bulldust

Is it? See e.g (https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/o...s/news-story/47ba15c92631821dc3117c3f49a4fedf) after the round 1 defeat. I'm sure there are many many more examples

 

[BlueBlood15]

Some second hand info coming out of trade period:

• Boak a good chance to join as a development coach.
• Crippa happy to hand over the captaincy if senior personnel think it’s time. Will do what’s in the best interests of the club.
• Jagga‘s professionalism really standing out within the four walls already.
• Gov was gone if Buku joined. Now club is weighing up keeping him or bringing in a replacement via DFA or during the SSP period.
• Elijah has broken the club’s trust and it’s seen as very unlikely that there’s a road back for him.