Play Nice AFL Womens - General Discussion

[10571z]

Swans average Sydney crowds over 5k this year after the 4500 yesterday.

That’s unbelievable. Plenty of NRL men’s clubs under 15k

 

[weevil]

I actually think the NRL strategy is forced on them by circumstance, and isnt something they got right.

There are more women playing full contact footy than there are people playing Rugby league. At the start of the AFLW and NRLW, female footy participation in Qld dwarfed female participation in League in Qld and NSW combined, and there is almost none outside those states.

But, they had a national team, and footy didnt.

Footy had a pyramid of female participants that was wide at the base, but short, due to a lack of elite pathwys driving a lot of talented athletes away from the sport.

League had a much narrower pyramid, but it was a bit pointier.

The AFLs strategy was to raise the height of the pyramid as fast as possible, because it had the player base to feed into multiple talent pathways in multiple states. As many AFL clubs being involved as soon as possible was the most efficient was to do this, and the AFL always intended the AFLW to stand on its own feet, and has actively avoided double headers for this reason.

The NRLs strategy was to limit the comp as much as possible because they had a small pool of reasonable talent, and then nothing. They limited it so much, it wasn't remotely possible for it to stand on its own feet as an independent comp, instead, they tacked it onto the mens comp. If they didn't imop, it would have disappeared without trace. They did what they did because they didn't think they could leave the field to the AFL, and they had no other viable way to do it, a sign of the weakness of womens RL, not a strength.

If you just value crowd sizes and viewers, put the womens game on before the mens, on the broadcast, have the womens be the lead up to the mens, count both towrds the womens, hey presto, fantastic numbers. Except of course, we would all know the numbers are bogus, like the NRLWs numbers are bogus.

The AFL started with a similar strategy to the NRL, but got steamrolled by clubs suddenly wanting to rush into the competition once they saw it was successful.

Gil said all this stuff at the start of the comp about how they were not going to rush to 18 teams, and that expansion would be guided by talent depth, club readiness, and demand. And it all got absolutely smashed to bits, and they got overrun by clubs demanding to be let in now, now, now, now, now.

Crowds and ratings are what the entire industry is built on. All the problems the AFLW have with scheduling, venues, visibility, and the like all get much, much easier the bigger the numbers you do.

Of course, the NRL numbers are boosted by being tightly integrated with their men's comp. But the question is, does doing that provide them with a long-term strategic advantage in growing their audience?

And the answer is that it probably does. But of course, it's not that simple in an AFL context. And I think that the league is right to take their time and to be cautious about exploring them next year.

What's been done to the comp has been done; we can't turn back time. I think the league's strategies to build it back to stronger growth from here are very reasonable; they are just going to take time.

I think everyone agrees that this year has delivered a really big jump in the depth and quality of the comp. It's awesome to see a bunch of young teams show signs they are going to be able to consistently compete in the years to come. Hopefully, we can continue to build on this.

 

[NetworkNerd]

I wonder if North Melbourne being too strong is holding back the evolution of the competition.

 

[Tas]

I wonder if North Melbourne being too strong is holding back the evolution of the competition.

I think the standard of our footy is the closest that exists in the AFLW to the men's footy. I think it is where other clubs have to get to for it to appeal to a wider audience.

There are a lot of really talented young players coming into the competition but that talent pool is diluted over a lot of clubs, I think you could take 3/4 of our players and put them in other clubs and i do not think they would change things significantly for those clubs. A lot comes down to system and just executing the basics well enough.

We really aren't doing anything that other clubs couldn't be doing, we were a along way behind Adelaide and Brisbane in 2022, we made changes to address it, Brisbane was still better than us in 2023, we had a big pre-season that year to get fitter than ever and we surpassed them in 2024.

Other clubs have to pony up and do the hard work or else this streak is going to go on for some time.

 

[timokane]

Who thinks the 2026 AFLW will be the last of the format as we know and in 2027 will be something totally differenct and that be a new concept in terms of teams and you can even zone it and format it differently

 

[weevil]

I think the standard of our footy is the closest that exists in the AFLW to the men's footy. I think it is where other clubs have to get to for it to appeal to a wider audience.

There are a lot of really talented young players coming into the competition but that talent pool is diluted over a lot of clubs, I think you could take 3/4 of our players and put them in other clubs and i do not think they would change things significantly for those clubs. A lot comes down to system and just executing the basics well enough.

We really aren't doing anything that other clubs couldn't be doing, we were a along way behind Adelaide and Brisbane in 2022, we made changes to address it, Brisbane was still better than us in 2023, we had a big pre-season that year to get fitter than ever and we surpassed them in 2024.

Other clubs have to pony up and do the hard work or else this streak is going to go on for some time.

See, according to North supporters, their women’s team performance is because of their brilliance, guts and courage, and their men’s team performance is because the system is rigged.

Jokes aside, I think they are both a little from column A and a little from column B.

 

[AussieNick1999]

I think the standard of our footy is the closest that exists in the AFLW to the men's footy. I think it is where other clubs have to get to for it to appeal to a wider audience.

There are a lot of really talented young players coming into the competition but that talent pool is diluted over a lot of clubs, I think you could take 3/4 of our players and put them in other clubs and i do not think they would change things significantly for those clubs. A lot comes down to system and just executing the basics well enough.

We really aren't doing anything that other clubs couldn't be doing, we were a along way behind Adelaide and Brisbane in 2022, we made changes to address it, Brisbane was still better than us in 2023, we had a big pre-season that year to get fitter than ever and we surpassed them in 2024.

Other clubs have to pony up and do the hard work or else this streak is going to go on for some time.

Once the rest of the league catches up with North I think the viewership will skyrocket compared to what it is now. A lot of the league's criticism is coming from a place of sexism but there are people who are understandably put off by how one-sided some games are.

 

[Tas]

See, according to North supporters, their women’s team performance is because of their brilliance, guts and courage, and their men’s team performance is because the system is rigged.

Jokes aside, I think they are both a little from column A and a little from column B.

Our men's team is hot garbage, it proves the point you need a lot more than just young talented players.

 

[jwikked]

Who thinks the 2026 AFLW will be the last of the format as we know and in 2027 will be something totally differenct and that be a new concept in terms of teams and you can even zone it and format it differently

No chance, it's too late for that now.

 

[weevil]

Once the rest of the league catches up with North I think the viewership will skyrocket compared to what it is now. A lot of the league's criticism is coming from a place of sexism but there are people who are understandably put off by how one-sided some games are.

It’s why the AFL are talking about introducing a salary cap. Growing attendance and viewership is their #1 priority, and competition balance is key to it.

 

[weevil]

Our men's team is hot garbage, it proves the point you need a lot more than just young talented players.

Yeah, you need academies too...and father/sons...

 

[Tas]

Once the rest of the league catches up with North I think the viewership will skyrocket compared to what it is now. A lot of the league's criticism is coming from a place of sexism but there are people who are understandably put off by how one-sided some games are.

The dumb rules do not help. It makes it really hard for some sides to be competitive when we are basically playing hot potato, the umpires are really struggling to umpire the game within the spirit of footy imo. It is very inconsistent and AFL house isn't doing the umpires any favours with the constant interpretation changes given umpires are amateurs and are not full time working on their craft.

I watch a lot of neutral games and I'd pull my hair if I was following some of these teams that just don't have the firepower to compensate for ordinary umpiring.

Even though we have won comfortably in all games by AFLW standards, I don't think it will take a lot to bridge the gap and a number of our better players are getting on, we will probably see a number of retirements over the next couple of years.

 

[weevil]

The dumb rules do not help. It makes it really hard for some sides to be competitive when we are basically playing hot potato, the umpires are really struggling to umpire the game within the spirit of footy imo. It is very inconsistent and AFL house isn't doing the umpires any favours with the constant interpretation changes given umpires are amateurs and are not full time working on their craft.

I watch a lot of neutral games and I'd pull my hair if I was following some of these teams that just don't have the firepower to compensate for ordinary umpiring.

Even though we have won comfortably in all games by AFLW standards, I don't think it will take a lot to bridge the gap and a number of our better players are getting on, we will probably see a number of retirements over the next couple of years.

Fixating on the umpiring is a cancer that will eats away at your soul.

I was headed down that path, and I realised it was ruining my enjoyment of the game.

Shit happens, the players aren’t perfect, and neither are the umpires. You don’t get anything positive from thinking about it.

 

[Tas]

Fixating on the umpiring is a cancer that will eats away at your soul.

I was headed down that path, and I realised it was ruining my enjoyment of the game.

Shit happens, the players aren’t perfect, and neither are the umpires. You don’t get anything positive from thinking about it.

Yeah, i am not one to overly focus on the umpiring, like i am not completely one-eyed and have no dog in the fight for the neutral games I watch. it is just really shitty though, someone picks the ball up right away, has no prior, gets bear tackled by multiple players and they pay holding the ball, then someone on the other side the exact same thing happens and it is a ball up. Some of these inconsistencies result in 12 point turnarounds and for sides that struggle to kick 5 goals that is a huge impact on the game.

It will just not appeal to the average punter, the rusted on fans might put up with a lot of garbage but the game needs more than the rusted on fans.

I notice the inconsistency when my team plays but we score pretty heavily and can cope with bad umpiring a lot more than sides that can't compensate.

 

[AussieNick1999]

Fixating on the umpiring is a cancer that will eats away at your soul.

I was headed down that path, and I realised it was ruining my enjoyment of the game.

Shit happens, the players aren’t perfect, and neither are the umpires. You don’t get anything positive from thinking about it.

I don't think the umpires themselves are really the problem, just the brutal way HTB is applied in games. And I blame the AFL's rule tampering more than the umpires. Artificially creating more turnovers through rule changes doesn't make the game more entertaining in my opinion. Teams going forward through good ball movement does.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Wow already 250,000 fans through the gates this season. All standalone matches. And there are 9 H&A games + 9 finals still to come!

New attendance record is a lock, for the 4th year in a row.

 

[pattymalone00]

Get its a problem AFLW wide but since Ikon is meant to be the showpiece Melbourne AFLW stadium gonna be calls for better away team rooms and ground entry now?

 

[The_Wookie]

Get its a problem AFLW wide but since Ikon is meant to be the showpiece Melbourne AFLW stadium gonna be calls for better away team rooms and ground entry now?

yeah what was the point of making Ikon Park the "home of AFLW" if the away team is still in stone age facilities.
Get AFLW its own home ground. Stat.

 

[pattymalone00]

yeah what was the point of making Ikon Park the "home of AFLW" if the away team is still in stone age facilities.
Get AFLW its own home ground. Stat.

Not to mention the redevelopment they had that was marketed of helping making it home of aflw was better facilities for Carlton and lowering the capacity

 

[The_Wookie]

Not to mention the redevelopment they had that was marketed of helping making it home of aflw was better facilities for Carlton and lowering the capacity

the capacity lowering and turning it into a training venue rather than a match arena still irks me.

 

[weevil]

the capacity lowering and turning it into a training venue rather than a match arena still irks me.

What are the actual issues preventing it from being a really good AFLW venue?

All I know about it is that it has those giant buildings right up against the boundary that completely destroys any sense of atmosphere on TV.

 

[The_Wookie]

What are the actual issues preventing it from being a really good venue?

All I know about it is that it has those giant buildings right up against the boundary that completely destroys any sense of atmosphere on TV.

thats pretty much it.

 

[weevil]

thats pretty much it.

So it lost shitloads of capacity, and they shoved that god awful shitbox in there instead?

Who tf did that, and when was their public execution?

 

[AussieNick1999]

What are the actual issues preventing it from being a really good AFLW venue?

All I know about it is that it has those giant buildings right up against the boundary that completely destroys any sense of atmosphere on TV.

There's no atmosphere in person either. I've been there for AFLW games and it's just a bad experience, the only ground that could match it for awfulness might be Arden Street.

Ikon Park is a very weird mix of facilities. The Legends Stand (which was a highly unpopular and wasteful development in the 90s) contains most of the usable seating but the concourse underneath the seats was dirty and decrepit last time I was there, and you need to go through it to get to your seat. The area next to it is a concrete shithole with no shade whatsover.

On the other wing you've got the Gardiner Stand which is in such a bad condition that it can't be used, the Heroes stand which has no seats and is just used for broadcasting, and some boundary seating behind the interchange benches which hardly anyone uses because the toilets and food van (there's no permanent canteen) are on the other side of the ground.

And between them you've got this ugly admin building behind the goals with a tiny narrow walking space to get from one side of the ground to the other. Being in that area reminds me of being in those mixed use commercial/industrial zones. All steel and concrete, very uninviting.

It just doesn't work as the AFLW's MCG. The capacity has been decimated in order to build Carlton's training facilities, it's not an inviting ground to go to as a supporter, and there's a stark contrast between the home facilities and the away facilities. You could improve it by restoring the Gardiner Stand and making use of the concourse underneath the Legends Stand (food outlets and a merch store, perhaps?) but it'll never be an ideal venue. It's just a mess of clashing design visions from times when the venue was used for very different purposes. Moorabbin and Whitten Oval on the other hand have been redeveloped quite well with the training facilities not seriously impacting on the capacity for spectators, and Punt Rd looks like it'll be an excellent place to watch footy when the new Jack Dyer stand is completed. Brisbane's new facility in Springfield looks to strike a good balance between the admin/training side and the spectator side, and Dingley looks like it'll be a great venue with two ovals (although I hope a grandstand gets added on the match day oval.)

 

[The_Wookie]

So it lost shitloads of capacity, and they shoved that god awful shitbox in there instead?

Who tf did that, and when was their public execution?

they demolished the Richard Pratt stand for the latest development, the Harris and Heatley Stands were demo'd in 2007 for the FIRST development.

gardiner stand cant be used, but cant be gotten rid of due to heritage listing