Roast St Kilda in no mans land - Part 2

[phantom13]

He's good, but he's no peak Gawn man.

I may be wrong.

But at face value...although I can see some improvement...I don't see this catapulting the team to contention.

Mind you, I really didn't see the acquisition of Nankervis, Prestia and Caddy doing that to us in 2016-17, whilst we moved on Deledio...

I think youve gotta look at the whole and not the parts.

JSOS semi replaces Battle and Howard/Cammaniti as the permanent fullback, our defense is ALOT more solid with that.

Max King fit and the forward line actually has a 50 goal a year key forward to compliment Higgins, Sharman, Owens etc.

The midfield gets TDK and Flanders to go with NAS, Windhager, Macrae plus Wilson and Pou etc.

With injury returns every line is pretty substantially upgraded through development and recruitment. We were one star away from a big leap anyway so no one player will bump us up massively.

 

[Andyy]

I think youve gotta look at the whole and not the parts.

JSOS semi replaces Battle and Howard/Cammaniti as the permanent fullback, our defense is ALOT more solid with that.

Max King fit and the forward line actually has a 50 goal a year key forward to compliment Higgins, Sharman, Owens etc.

The midfield gets TDK and Flanders to go with NAS, Windhager, Macrae plus Wilson and Pou etc.

With injury returns every line is pretty substantially upgraded through development and recruitment. We were one star away from a big leap anyway so no one player will bump us up massively.

JSOS is a B-grade utility IMO. I don't think he'll ever cover your AA Battle (although I thought his AA was sorta generous tbbh. Not saying Battle isn't a good player, please don't Naicos-lynch me fanboys). But still an upgrade on Caminiti at least, who I think should be playing forward/ruck. Maybe an upgrade on Howard also - what went wrong with him? Fitness?

King fit for sure is a huge boost. Still dirty on Higgins leaving but oh well haha.

The midfield is solid, although many think Macrae is past it mostly. I don't know enough about Wilson and Pou. But obviously NAS is a bit of a freak and I'm a big fan of Windhager, can't believe those two went so late. The midfield overall is very decent indeed.

 

[Saints2001]

Howard also - what went wrong with him? Fitness?

Injured

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

He's good, but he's no peak Gawn man.

I may be wrong.

But at face value...although I can see some improvement...I don't see this catapulting the team to contention.

Mind you, I really didn't see the acquisition of Nankervis, Prestia and Caddy doing that to us in 2016-17, whilst we moved on Deledio...

Yeah, these things are not usually just about the individual capability of the new player, but more so what it means for existing players.

Do they come in and allow an existing player to play a more suitable role? Do their attributes or capabilities compliment an existing player?
Do they force a shit player out of the best 22?
Do they plug a glaring weakness?

All of the above provide overall uplift. Sometimes it ends up being really significant.

 

[Mr Meow]

I think youve gotta look at the whole and not the parts.

JSOS semi replaces Battle and Howard/Cammaniti as the permanent fullback, our defense is ALOT more solid with that.

Max King fit and the forward line actually has a 50 goal a year key forward to compliment Higgins, Sharman, Owens etc.

The midfield gets TDK and Flanders to go with NAS, Windhager, Macrae plus Wilson and Pou etc.

With injury returns every line is pretty substantially upgraded through development and recruitment. We were one star away from a big leap anyway so no one player will bump us up massively.

There's no real need for King to get fit with Marshall lining up at full forward.

 

[phantom13]

There's no real need for King to get fit with Marshall lining up at full forward.

Kings a better forward than Marshall plus we’re likely playing them both like most teams with two tall forwards.

 

[Mat Mann]

JSOS is a B-grade utility IMO. I don't think he'll ever cover your AA Battle (although I thought his AA was sorta generous tbbh. Not saying Battle isn't a good player, please don't Naicos-lynch me fanboys). But still an upgrade on Caminiti at least, who I think should be playing forward/ruck. Maybe an upgrade on Howard also - what went wrong with him? Fitness?

King fit for sure is a huge boost. Still dirty on Higgins leaving but oh well haha.

The midfield is solid, although many think Macrae is past it mostly. I don't know enough about Wilson and Pou. But obviously NAS is a bit of a freak and I'm a big fan of Windhager, can't believe those two went so late. The midfield overall is very decent indeed.

Many Saints ppl think Battle had a better year in his last year with us than his AA year. Strange how a change of team changes attitudes to players.

McRae was going very well until he punctured a lung, missed a few weeks and didn't return in quite the same form
he's not the same player he was 3-4 years ago but he's still got alot to offer
season 2025

● Ranked 4th in Stoppage Clearances Per Game	● Ranked 7th in Clearances Per Game
● Ranked 9th in Contested Possessions Per Game	● Ranked 6th in Total Stoppage Clearances
● Ranked 13th in Total Clearances	● Ranked 14th in Total Contested Possessions

the growth of our young mids, is where the improvement comes from

McRae Flanders Hall Windy Wilson Nas Garcia, haven't been this positive on a group since the 2000's

 

[Kildonan]

This thread was started because St Kilda was stuck in a cycle of failing to take take the next step and play finals, but at the same time they never finished poorly enough to land a premium draft pick.

This trend could still be in effect, except the club has been engineering an escape from no man's land. Over the last four years the club has focused most of their recruitment on the draft, at the same time they have been deliberately delisting players that the club did not see as essential to culture, but were soaking up the salary cap. Those players we did hang onto were given front ended contracts so that we built up a huge war chest.

At this point in time before the draft, we have 9 players over 28 years old
We have 12 players in that peak performance age group 23 - 27 years old
and we have 19 players in that 18 - 23 year old developing player age group

Those stats include the mature aged players we have traded in.

The club has drafted heavily recently and now they have the wherewithal to escape the trap of being stuck with only drafting to improve the list. It has been difficult to lure players to our club. We accepted that we had to reverse the tide of free agency and trades (which usually go from the lower clubs to the more powerful clubs). To do this we offered obscene amounts of money, this tactic worked. We still have cash to splash, but we ran out of list spaces. Next year we will do it again.

 

[Seattle Mariners]

I think youve gotta look at the whole and not the parts.

JSOS semi replaces Battle and Howard/Cammaniti as the permanent fullback, our defense is ALOT more solid with that.

Max King fit and the forward line actually has a 50 goal a year key forward to compliment Higgins, Sharman, Owens etc.

The midfield gets TDK and Flanders to go with NAS, Windhager, Macrae plus Wilson and Pou etc.

With injury returns every line is pretty substantially upgraded through development and recruitment. We were one star away from a big leap anyway so no one player will bump us up massively.

All sounds good in theory but what if St Kilda have another year of key injuries?

 

[phantom13]

All sounds good in theory but what if St Kilda have another year of key injuries?

What if any team has a year of key injuries? Not a lot anyone can really do about that

 

[Mr Meow]

What if any team has a year of key injuries? Not a lot anyone can really do about that

Having elite medical + fitness/conditioning departments makes a huge difference. I'm not sure how elite St Kilda are in those areas.

 

[ScrappyDo]

All sounds good in theory but what if St Kilda have another year of key injuries?

Having elite medical + fitness/conditioning departments makes a huge difference. I'm not sure how elite St Kilda are in those areas.

It's the improvements to depth that will give Stkilda as much of a boost as anything else.
As said above there's not much you can do about injuries, but the fitness dpt should currently be under the spotlight given recent history.
However the acquisition of TDK and Jsos makes a significant upgrade in KPP cover whilst the development of Camaniti and Keeler will add further.
Midfield will be reliant on growth but having replaced Steele with Flanders there's plenty of good kids that can fill holes.

 

[Seattle Mariners]

When it's all said and done, St Kilda have absolutely improved their list and their supporters have every right to expect a finals birth next year.

FWIW I tip them to make the 8, possibly as high as 5th and a home elimination final.

On the flipside, if they miss finals (with a moderate to good injury run) Ross Lyon should be under a little pressure I reckon. If they win 8 or less games, he probably should be fired.

 

[windyhill]

What if any team has a year of key injuries? Not a lot anyone can really do about that

Hello Essendon.

 

[jwikked]

On the flipside, if they miss finals (with a moderate to good injury run) Ross Lyon should be under a little pressure I reckon. If they win 8 or less games, he probably should be fired.

Definitely pressure, absolutely no way he gets fired.

The club has put itself in this position deliberately, they're not going to destroy years of planning because Damien Barratt wants Ross Lyon to be sacked.

 

[Seattle Mariners]

Definitely pressure, absolutely no way he gets fired.

The club has put itself in this position deliberately, they're not going to destroy years of planning because Damien Barratt wants Ross Lyon to be sacked.

Maybe not fired, but he'd be on very shaky ground if St Kilda finish bottom 4 next year.

Anyway, it's a moot point as St Kilda should be winning at least 13 games next year.

 

[phantom13]

Having elite medical + fitness/conditioning departments makes a huge difference. I'm not sure how elite St Kilda are in those areas.

Our conditioning is as good as anyone’s medical and fitness could use some work but given how difficult it is to improve those areas should we have just not recruited players until we fixed that (when there is no guarantee we even could)?

 

[Hoop1888]

Kobe McDonald heading there this year. That could be a good singing in that he's going over there at 17, while I think most Irish recruits go over a bit older, but he can work on his skill-set, watch and learn the games and I think what probably holds players back is having that instinct for the game or game IQ. Not sure what position he plays, but done well this year for his club.

His father knows some AFL players quite well.



Is Eamonn Armstrong still knocking about? Think I read he had to finish school exams before he'd start up there.

 

[BrutThough]

Kobe McDonald heading there this year. That could be a good singing in that he's going over there at 17, while I think most Irish recruits go over a bit older, but he can work on his skill-set, watch and learn the games and I think what probably holds players back is having that instinct for the game or game IQ. Not sure what position he plays, but done well this year for his club.

His father knows some AFL players quite well.



Is Eamonn Armstrong still knocking about? Think I read he had to finish school exams before he'd start up there.

Eamonn's still on the list. He played a few VFL games when he arrived in July. You could tell he had no idea what was going on but showed some nice athletic traits. It will be good watching his progress over preseason.

 

[Hoop1888]

Eamonn's still on the list. He played a few VFL games when he arrived in July. You could tell he had no idea what was going on but showed some nice athletic traits. It will be good watching his progress over preseason.

Cheers. He looks like a big enough unit, IIRC, and played midfield at home so he should have a good baseline for fielding high balls. I seen O'Connell play one game for the Saints last season and thought he looked okay - put in a nice hit that flattened his man. Only really followed games last season and can see why it's a difficult game to pick up moreso than I initially thought. Hopefully they do well there and, at least one of them can become a regular in the side.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

JSOS is a B-grade utility IMO. I don't think he'll ever cover your AA Battle (although I thought his AA was sorta generous tbbh. Not saying Battle isn't a good player, please don't Naicos-lynch me fanboys). But still an upgrade on Caminiti at least, who I think should be playing forward/ruck. Maybe an upgrade on Howard also - what went wrong with him? Fitness?

King fit for sure is a huge boost. Still dirty on Higgins leaving but oh well haha.

The midfield is solid, although many think Macrae is past it mostly. I don't know enough about Wilson and Pou. But obviously NAS is a bit of a freak and I'm a big fan of Windhager, can't believe those two went so late. The midfield overall is very decent indeed.

Battle is not a a grade player either his a solid reliable player, I wasn’t upset he left considering it netted the pick that got us tauru

 

[Suburbanhack]

When it's all said and done, St Kilda have absolutely improved their list and their supporters have every right to expect a finals birth next year.

FWIW I tip them to make the 8, possibly as high as 5th and a home elimination final.

On the flipside, if they miss finals (with a moderate to good injury run) Ross Lyon should be under a little pressure I reckon. If they win 8 or less games, he probably should be fired.

Good post. While 2027/28 is when we are (hopefully) more likely to contend, I would think that finals should absolutely be the goal next year. Add a fit King, Henry, Howard, Philipou etc to TDK, Ryan, JSOS and Flanders and we are looking like a decent team. Not quite the Brisbane Lions but one that should be competitive most weeks against most teams. On that basis I would agree if we have decent run with injury and miss finals then the coach and others should be subject to some scrutiny. Anything less than the 9 wins recorded this past season would be a failure.

 

[BrutThough]

Cheers. He looks like a big enough unit, IIRC, and played midfield at home so he should have a good baseline for fielding high balls. I seen O'Connell play one game for the Saints last season and thought he looked okay - put in a nice hit that flattened his man. Only really followed games last season and can see why it's a difficult game to pick up moreso than I initially thought. Hopefully they do well there and, at least one of them can become a regular in the side.

O'Connell had some good defensive moments and I think most within the club are happy with his development so far. He needs to work on his attacking side but he was thrown into the midfield late in the VFL season and looked great.

 

[Count_Zero]

Many Saints ppl think Battle had a better year in his last year with us than his AA year. Strange how a change of team changes attitudes to players.

McRae was going very well until he punctured a lung, missed a few weeks and didn't return in quite the same form
he's not the same player he was 3-4 years ago but he's still got alot to offer
season 2025

● Ranked 4th in Stoppage Clearances Per Game	● Ranked 7th in Clearances Per Game
● Ranked 9th in Contested Possessions Per Game	● Ranked 6th in Total Stoppage Clearances
● Ranked 13th in Total Clearances	● Ranked 14th in Total Contested Possessions

the growth of our young mids, is where the improvement comes from

McRae Flanders Hall Windy Wilson Nas Garcia, haven't been this positive on a group since the 2000's

Boxshall as well, I'm excited to see what type of player he will become.

 

[The Jack]

Ins:
TDK
Ryan
Flanders
JSOS
King
Phillipou
Howard
Henry

And some people still think we can't improve in 26.