List Mgmt. 2025 List Management III 📃

[Aphrodite]

Continued from here:-

List Mgmt. - 2025 List Management II 📃

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Soapy V]

Walsh and Cerra were trending as being elite wingmen in the first three years of their careers before being permanently moved onto the ball.

It would work with both of these players however if we take Walsh we out of the middle we go back to having the slowest most immobile onball group in the league and we turn into witches hats and what we see everytime we play Adelaide becomes a more regular thing.

Walsh to me is a poor man's Dangerfield. Good player, powerful, can't kick accurately but can kick long and does so regularly. That's fine.

In an ideal world I would like to move Walsh to a wing, but it hurts us to much. It makes our biggest weakness even bigger. Opens us up to the stronger/quicker sides far too much.

We need to recruit an elite quicker smaller onballer to partner with Walsh in the middle and allow our specialist wingers to develop.

Question is, does Voss' game plan allow for an attacking forward running winger to really develop and impact games? It's one of his coaching holes IMO.

For me it depends how quick and if names like Jagga Moir Wilson Ison Lord (Walker) Chesser step up and can Motlop Williams Ainsworth play influential midfield minutes. Add this to Cripps Cerra Hewett Ben Campo and we have serious options.

We all of a sudden look very different and aren’t slow. If a few of them can step then I would put Walsh on a wing

 

[Opium]

For me it depends how quick and if names like Jagga Moir Wilson Ison Lord (Walker) Chesser step up and can Motlop Williams play influential midfield minutes. Add this to Cripps Cerra Hewett Ben Campo and we have options.

We all of a sudden look very different and aren’t slow. If a few of them can step then I would put Walsh on a wing

I think we have a few players who could really break out next season. Moir, Wilson, Cowan, Motlop and Chesser.

 

[Soapy V]

I think we have a few players who could really break out next season. Moir, Wilson, Cowan, Motlop and Chesser.

That’s the hope. HOK is a big one for me as well and I’m excited about Dean & Ison

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Walsh and Cerra were trending as being elite wingmen in the first three years of their careers before being permanently moved onto the ball.

It would work with both of these players however if we take Walsh we out of the middle we go back to having the slowest most immobile onball group in the league and we turn into witches hats and what we see everytime we play Adelaide becomes a more regular thing.

Walsh to me is a poor man's Dangerfield. Good player, powerful, can't kick accurately but can kick long and does so regularly. That's fine.

In an ideal world I would like to move Walsh to a wing, but it hurts us to much. It makes our biggest weakness even bigger. Opens us up to the stronger/quicker sides far too much.

We need to recruit an elite quicker smaller onballer to partner with Walsh in the middle and allow our specialist wingers to develop.

Question is, does Voss' game plan allow for an attacking forward running winger to really develop and impact games? It's one of his coaching holes IMO.

Walsh's best seasons have all been playing on ball, including his 3rd season. Cerra has also played his best football on ball. There's no reason we should be trying to push them back out to a wing where they played during their early development stages.

We play our best footy when those two are up and running on ball, as we saw in 2023 when Cripps was well down on his best and we still had the most potent midfield in the comp.

 

[Mondyboy]

Walsh's best seasons have all been playing on ball, including his 3rd season. Cerra has also played his best football on ball. There's no reason we should be trying to push them back out to a wing where they played during their early development stages.

We play our best footy when those two are up and running on ball, as we saw in 2023 when Cripps was well down on his best and we still had the most potent midfield in the comp.

Agree. We’ve now got enough blokes who can play wing. Walsh and Cerra need to be core to our engine.

 

[gbatman]

Walsh's best seasons have all been playing on ball, including his 3rd season. Cerra has also played his best football on ball. There's no reason we should be trying to push them back out to a wing where they played during their early development stages.

We play our best footy when those two are up and running on ball, as we saw in 2023 when Cripps was well down on his best and we still had the most potent midfield in the comp.

The only argument is that they are better footballers now than they were in their second and third season.

The reason you don't do it is because our biggest weakness is onball mobility and speed and if you take that out, our quickest and most mobile onball players, it makes our biggest weakness extremely weak.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The only argument is that they are better footballers now than they were in their second and third season.

The reason you don't do it is because our biggest weakness is onball mobility and speed and if you take that out, our quickest and most mobile onball players, it makes our biggest weakness extremely weak.

In 2-3 years we'll likely have the luxury of finding out the answer to that question with Walker, Jagga and others coming through to provide some spark and speed through the middle. Until then they stay on ball to try and balance out Cripps and Hewett's general lack of spread and run.

 

[gbatman]

For me it depends how quick and if names like Jagga Moir Wilson Ison Lord (Walker) Chesser step up and can Motlop Williams Ainsworth play influential midfield minutes. Add this to Cripps Cerra Hewett Ben Campo and we have serious options.

We all of a sudden look very different and aren’t slow. If a few of them can step then I would put Walsh on a wing

I think we have to outsource. I am wrapped with the list changes and players we have. You will hopefully not hear me going on about how we don't have any genuine forwards now. I think we have outsourced extremely well. But there is more to do.

If we are talking about going from a finals side, which I think we will be next season, to premiership contender. We need someone to take us a level up. I could be wrong, but let's see. I think we are one gun quick rover to get us there.

Those guys IMO will most likely come on and that will make a difference.

Jagga is a pencil thin, hugely talented player who will likely play on a flank and a bit in the middle for a few seasons.

Wilson is half back or possibly wing and will be for the next two seasons at least, I don't see him as an onballer, I think that idea is done for AFL level.

Ison will be a great get but give him a few seasons before we consider him full time AFL. Patience here.

Walker, we did it with his father, kids are not instant big messiahs, he will need a few years developing and hopefully killing it on the flanks and wings before we stick him in the middle. We stick his father in the middle in a weak team and he spent the rest of his career with bung shoulders. Patience here as well.

Chesser, I really like him, let's see where we place him, I think he could partner Walsh in the middle. But I also think he is probably going to play wing and flank.

Motlop, Williams, Ainsworth are rotation options.

Cerra, Hewett, Ben Camporeale are all inside onball options, very much of a muchness and not the types of players to add balance and quality to that onball group. They will keep us competitive and sustain that, but will not elevate us. Lord goes on that list as well.

I am not seeing any of what we need in that group.

I am going to put the pressure on our team. We need to challenge from 2027-2030. At least in one of those season.

We need to outsource to get the right onball players.

We will be a fair side, but we won't have it over those quicker more nimble sides and we are probably an onballer or two away from that.

We need to use our picks and salary cap space we have generated to add the cream.

We have enough talent to be a finals team and sustain that. But we do not have the talent to win a flag but are damn close. IMO we need to outsource to get there.

I think our forward line is going to be great. I am happy to have McKay and O'Keeffe as our tall targets, there are plenty of sides who do not have talls this quality and some have been winning flags.

I am really excited about us this coming season but our onball group needs a shake up. One thing that has been consistent since 2022 I have been saying a big small/medium forward and onball shakeup is coming. We just saw the small forward shake up, next season look out midfield! I like our backs....

 

[SurreyBlue]

Anything happens to McKay long term, and we put our faith in HoK to hold it down as the sole KP forward.
Personally, ALARM bells right there.

 

[juzza316]

I think we have to outsource. I am wrapped with the list changed and players we have. You will hopefully not hear me going on about how we don't have any genuine forwards now. I think we have outsourced extremely well. But there is more to do.

If we are talking about going from a finals side, which I think we will be next season, to premiership contender. We need someone to take us a level up. I could be wrong, but let's see. I think we are one gun quick rover to get us there.

Those guys IMO will most likely come on and that will make a difference.

Jagga is a pencil thin, hugely talented player who will likely play on a flank and a bit in the middle for a few seasons.

Wilson is half back or possibly wing and will be for the next two seasons at least, I don't see him as an onballer, I think that idea is done for AFL level.

Ison will be a great get but give him a few seasons before we consider him full time AFL. Patience here.

Walker, we did it with his father, kids are not instant big messiahs, he will need a few years developing and hopefully killing it on the flanks and wings before we stick him in the middle. We stick his father in the middle in a weak team and he spent the rest of his career with bung shoulders. Patience here as well.

Chesser, I really like him, let's see where we place him, I think he could partner Walsh in the middle. But I also think he is probably going to play wing and flank.

Motlop, Williams, Ainsworth are rotation options.

Cerra, Hewett, Ben Camporeale are all inside onball options, very much of a muchness and not the types of players to add balance and quality to that onball group. They will keep us competitive and sustain that, but will not elevate us. Lord goes on that list as well.

I am not seeing any of what we need in that group.

I am going to put the pressure on our team. We need to challenge from 2027-2030. At least in one of those season.

We need to outsource to get the right onballer players.

We will be a fair side, but we won't have it over those quicker more nimble sides and we are probably an onballer or two away from that.

We need to use our picks and salary cap space we have generated to add the cream.

We have enough talent to be a finals team and sustain that. But we do not have the talent to win a flag but are damn close. IMO we need to outsource to get there.

I think our forward line is going to be great. I am happy to have McKay and O'Keeffe as our tall targets, there are plenty of sides who do not have talls this quality and some have been winning flags.

I am really excited about us this coming season but our onball group needs a shake up. One thing that has been consistent since 2022 I have been saying a big small/medium forward and onball shakeup is coming. We just saw the small forward shake up, next season look out midfield! I like our backs....

Have a look at other teams and their lists, we are so far behind.We are not close to finals or a flag.

Lions, Suns, Cats, Hawks, Suns, Dogs, Swans, Saints, Giants, Crows, Pies - most, if not ALL of these teams are ahead of us.
Dons, Eagles, Tigers, Port, Dees, Norf - these are who we are mixing with in the short term

We just lost our BEST ruckman our BEST forward and our 2nd BEST defender. We have to take a couple of steps back to go forward and forward is at LEAST a couple of years away. As you said Jagga is pencil thin and Walker is 18 months from playing so we have a long long time to go before we challenge again.

 

[juzza316]

Anything happens to McKay long term, and we put our faith in HoK to hold it down as the sole KP forward.
Personally, ALARM bells right there.

IMO - Don't think HoK is going to be any better than Mckay and certainly nowhere near as good as what Curnow is/was. I am not even super confident he is actually going to 'make it' .

 

[marcmurphy3]

Walsh's best seasons have all been playing on ball, including his 3rd season. Cerra has also played his best football on ball. There's no reason we should be trying to push them back out to a wing where they played during their early development stages.

We play our best footy when those two are up and running on ball, as we saw in 2023 when Cripps was well down on his best and we still had the most potent midfield in the comp.

The whole Walsh was a great winger, before we pushed him onball idea, is one if the biggest myths on this board.

He was wing for about 10 games in his first season. Once Bolton got sacked Teague played him almost exclusively onball. Was also wing during latter part of his second season. Aside from that hes been onballer. In his breakout 3rd season (where he polled 30 brownlow votes), he was our 2nd highest CBA player behind Cripps.

 

[Soapy V]

IMO - Don't think HoK is going to be any better than Mckay and certainly nowhere near as good as what Curnow is/was. I am not even super confident he is actually going to 'make it' .

I don’t want a star. I want a functioning forward line.

 

[Soapy V]

The whole Walsh was a great winger, before we pushed him onball idea, is one if the biggest myths on this board.

Who said Walsh was a great winger?

 

[Jimmae]

Walsh's best seasons have all been playing on ball, including his 3rd season. Cerra has also played his best football on ball. There's no reason we should be trying to push them back out to a wing where they played during their early development stages.

We play our best footy when those two are up and running on ball, as we saw in 2023 when Cripps was well down on his best and we still had the most potent midfield in the comp.

If you put Walsh consistently on-ball then you've done absolutely nothing to address the centre bounce issue we have over time aside from a little extra pressure from outside the square.

This is why I'm looking over at Kemp, and hoping for a trade that nets Robey because it will dramatically change that key weakness. Kemp is a longer shot for the start of the season, but I think he's worth looking at longer term.

Walker will help from mid-2027 onwards, but we've also got players dropping off at that point and no clear guarantees for replacements.

Regardless, there's nothing stopping us from training up a few new names given Motlop is unlikely to feature much at AFL level unless he goes to a new level, and that Hollands should be more outside.

I really hope we don't take our new advantages on the wing and dot them across HB and HF either, I want us rolling deep, and one can rest forward if needed, the small and medium defenders are sorted without throwing Florent there.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If you put Walsh consistently on-ball then you've done absolutely nothing to address the centre bounce issue we have over time aside from a little extra pressure from outside the square.

This is why I'm looking over at Kemp, and hoping for a trade that nets Robey because it will dramatically change that key weakness. Kemp is a longer shot for the start of the season, but I think he's worth looking at longer term.

Walker will help from mid-2027 onwards, but we've also got players dropping off at that point and no clear guarantees for replacements.

Regardless, there's nothing stopping us from training up a few new names given Motlop is unlikely to feature much at AFL level unless he goes to a new level, and that Hollands should be more outside.

I really hope we don't take our new advantages on the wing and dot them across HB and HF either, I want us rolling deep, and one can rest forward if needed, the small and medium defenders are sorted without throwing Florent there.

Kemp isn't clean enough below his knees to play on ball imo. Has the body shape and the athletic profile to be a great addition but not the skills and smarts for the role for mine. If I was going to switch anyone around to play that role I'd be giving it to Cowan who is extremely clean at ground level and also provides dash and physicality around contests.

Robey would be great but virtually impossible given the early interest in Dean and the need to bank points for Walker next year.

For me I'd be targeting Humphrey end of next year with our 2027 picks to add 3 'POD' midfield rotations to our team as early as 2027 - Walker, Ison and Humphrey. All bigger bodies who have a burst of speed and power and can also rotate forward which contrasts the players we currently roll through the midfield. Add to that, spurts from players like Moir, Ainsworth and hopefully Williams if he can hold on for a couple more years... I think that would be a quality midfield mix.

As for Motlop... I've made my thoughts on him known plenty of times, don't think he's up to it but hoping to be proven wrong.

Either way, I'm not overly concerned with the midfield going forward. I think a fit Walsh and Cerra + Jagga is enough to balance it out for the time being while we wait for Cody and Jagga to really get rolling in there after a few seasons. Plus I'm sure we'll look to add a couple of other names to the mix over that time.

I'm looking at 2026 as a transition year where we'll hopefully get to see a few new things from players and get a better idea of where the list truly sits... While also hopefully being relatively competitive and fighting for a spot in the 8.

On another note, in 2029 we'll hopefully be in a position to add Arli Walker as well - Who I went through and watched some of his gameplay... FREAK. Every bit as good as Cody at the same age if not better and has plenty of dash and power. Definitely one to get excited for in a few years.

 

[JustOneTime]

The whole Walsh was a great winger, before we pushed him onball idea, is one if the biggest myths on this board.

He was wing for about 10 games in his first season. Once Bolton got sacked Teague played him almost exclusively onball. Was also wing during latter part of his second season. Aside from that hes been onballer. In his breakout 3rd season (where he polled 30 brownlow votes), he was our 2nd highest CBA player behind Cripps.

Might have preserved him a bit better playing wing. But given we have 10 others who can play there no one is pressing the issue.

I think after an initial 3-4 game period learning the role he excelled on the wing.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Are you a statistician? What is your margin for error ?

Are you suggesting that a randomised rate is more or less on par?

I understand that there can be some deviation in confidence level and not all kicks are equal, but to state that you cannot completely rely on the stat full stop is absolute nonsense. Please don’t try and make yourself more intelligent than others by making these sort of statements.

I've actually done in game stats a couple of times. Incredibly difficult job.

But if you've ever looked into "effective disposal" you'll know how suspect it is. Kick over 40m to a 50-50 contest counts as an effective disposal.

I think most people assume it's measuring kicks that hit a team mate on the chest.

But it's also a rubbish stat because it favours half-backs who switch the ball a lot.

As to me "making myself more intelligent than others" - I'd ask you to stop making yourself look less intelligent than others by making those sort of personal attacks.

It's all just friendly Carlton chat during the boring pre-draft period.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

If you put Walsh consistently on-ball then you've done absolutely nothing to address the centre bounce issue we have over time aside from a little extra pressure from outside the square.

This is why I'm looking over at Kemp, and hoping for a trade that nets Robey because it will dramatically change that key weakness. Kemp is a longer shot for the start of the season, but I think he's worth looking at longer term.

Walker will help from mid-2027 onwards, but we've also got players dropping off at that point and no clear guarantees for replacements.

Regardless, there's nothing stopping us from training up a few new names given Motlop is unlikely to feature much at AFL level unless he goes to a new level, and that Hollands should be more outside.

I really hope we don't take our new advantages on the wing and dot them across HB and HF either, I want us rolling deep, and one can rest forward if needed, the small and medium defenders are sorted without throwing Florent there.

The only issue for Walsh is getting himself fit. He has to stop over working himself. He's so naturally fit he doesn't need it.

4th in the brownlow back in '21? Feels a long time ago. Even player of the finals series in '23 was a while now.

But a fit and firing Walsh and Cripps covers over a whole lot of other issues on the list. The jagga addition - can't wait to see how he fits in.

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

I think we have to outsource. I am wrapped with the list changed and players we have. You will hopefully not hear me going on about how we don't have any genuine forwards now. I think we have outsourced extremely well. But there is more to do.

If we are talking about going from a finals side, which I think we will be next season, to premiership contender. We need someone to take us a level up. I could be wrong, but let's see. I think we are one gun quick rover to get us there.

Those guys IMO will most likely come on and that will make a difference.

Jagga is a pencil thin, hugely talented player who will likely play on a flank and a bit in the middle for a few seasons.

Wilson is half back or possibly wing and will be for the next two seasons at least, I don't see him as an onballer, I think that idea is done for AFL level.

Ison will be a great get but give him a few seasons before we consider him full time AFL. Patience here.

Walker, we did it with his father, kids are not instant big messiahs, he will need a few years developing and hopefully killing it on the flanks and wings before we stick him in the middle. We stick his father in the middle in a weak team and he spent the rest of his career with bung shoulders. Patience here as well.

Chesser, I really like him, let's see where we place him, I think he could partner Walsh in the middle. But I also think he is probably going to play wing and flank.

Motlop, Williams, Ainsworth are rotation options.

Cerra, Hewett, Ben Camporeale are all inside onball options, very much of a muchness and not the types of players to add balance and quality to that onball group. They will keep us competitive and sustain that, but will not elevate us. Lord goes on that list as well.

I am not seeing any of what we need in that group.

I am going to put the pressure on our team. We need to challenge from 2027-2030. At least in one of those season.

We need to outsource to get the right onballer players.

We will be a fair side, but we won't have it over those quicker more nimble sides and we are probably an onballer or two away from that.

We need to use our picks and salary cap space we have generated to add the cream.

We have enough talent to be a finals team and sustain that. But we do not have the talent to win a flag but are damn close. IMO we need to outsource to get there.

I think our forward line is going to be great. I am happy to have McKay and O'Keeffe as our tall targets, there are plenty of sides who do not have talls this quality and some have been winning flags.

I am really excited about us this coming season but our onball group needs a shake up. One thing that has been consistent since 2022 I have been saying a big small/medium forward and onball shakeup is coming. We just saw the small forward shake up, next season look out midfield! I like our backs....

Only one you forgot to mention there is Moir. He’ll get midfield minutes too as he has been this year. Point of difference and clean. Just needs another full preseason or 2

 

[Soapy V]

Wherever Walsh will play he will be a star.

My theory for Wing is it is now a vital role in any successful side. They play as an extra mid now. McLuggage Gulden Dempsey etc are match winners. He also has an ongoing back concern and IMO needs to get out of the consistent contested ball situations. When in the middle he can’t help himself and he isn’t that big and will do himself damage and very possibly shorten his career

The reality is he could play both and mix and match.

Been lots of discussion re Wing/HB but we also will now have midfield options as well. Cripps Cerra Hewett Walsh Jagga Lord BenC Ison Moir Chesser (Elijah?) with support by Ainsworth Motlop Williams Cottrell (maybe tagging)

IMO we need to change our midfield mix. Jagga will help but others need to step and we need to develop combinations

I have no idea what we will do but IMO things need to change. Pre season will be very interesting as will how quickly will Voss push the younger players

 

[Soapy V]

Only one you forgot to mention there is Moir. He’ll get midfield minutes too as he has been this year. Point of difference and clean. Just needs another full preseason or 2

100%. His best football last year was in the middle. Some just were elite

The question for him has been his tank. Has worked his backside off and is improving. I’ve been extremely impressed. Has more talent than anyone on list

If he can have another full pre season and train with mids he is a real wildcard for 2026. Could change our whole outlook

Jagga Moir Lord Walker Ison is the potential core of an elite midfield for next 6-8 years

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

100%. His best football last year was in the middle. Some just were elite

The question for him has been his tank. Has worked his backside off and is improving. I’ve been extremely impressed. Has more talent than anyone on list

If he can have another full pre season and train with mids he is a real wildcard for 2026. Could change our whole outlook

Jagga Moir Lord Walker is the potential core of an elite midfield for next 6-8 years

100 percent agree Soap. I saw it for the first time in the VFL game against North. He spent a fair bit of time in and out of the guts in that game and was legit a cut above. Just to see him get a good run at it could be anything that kid.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Wherever Walsh will play he will be a star.

My theory for Wing is it is now a vital role in any successful side. They play as an extra mid now. McLuggage Gulden Dempsey etc are match winners. He also has an ongoing back concern and IMO needs to get out of the consistent contested ball situations. When in the middle he can’t help himself and he isn’t that big and will do himself damage and very possibly shorten his career

The reality is he could play both and mix and match.

Been lots of discussion re Wing/HB but we also will now have midfield options as well. Cripps Cerra Hewett Walsh Jagga Lord BenC Ison Moir Chesser (Elijah?) with support by Ainsworth Motlop Williams Cottrell (maybe tagging)

IMO we need to change our midfield mix. Jagga will help but others need to step and we need to develop combinations

I have no idea what we will do but IMO things need to change. Pre season will be very interesting as will how quickly will Voss push the younger players

If Ben Campo is playing wing or half back we are in serious strife. Inside defensive mid or nothing. But agree with most of the rest.

 

[Soapy V]

If Ben Campo is playing wing or half back we are in serious strife. Inside defensive mid or nothing. But agree with most of the rest.

Who said Ben should play Wing or HB?