AFL Players have too much power

[randyzany]

Look youre entitled to your view, but I never saw a club kick a ball or take a mark.

As for the fans, well I go to watch the players, they don't play for me.

Outgrowths like umpires, leagues, clubs and fans are great but the sport is people playing, the rest is secondary in my view.

There's a lot of rhetoric about "the fans" but its mostly advertising guff. Take away any one element from footy, and there is still footy....except the players.

Interesting view from a Collingwood fan.

From my interaction with the average footy fan they care far more about the club than they will ever care about any particular footy player, there are exceptions of course but that is the general rule.

The only ones that will disagree with this stance I assume would be players themselves who are delusional about their standing in the game and perhaps their friends and families.

The AFL isn't the NBA where the emphasis is being fans of superstars such as how LeBron fans immediately switched to being fans of teams LeBron moved to.

Footy players aren't Hollywood A listers, the vast majority of footy fans pay to see their club succeed not watch any specific player like they do Cruise, di Caprio, Pitt, etc... on the big screen.

 

[Orfullrules]

Interesting view from a Collingwood fan.

From my interaction with the average footy fan they care far more about the club than they will ever care about any particular footy player, there are exceptions of course but that is the general rule.

The only ones that will disagree with this stance I assume would be players themselves who are delusional about their standing in the game and perhaps their friends and families.

The AFL isn't the NBA where the emphasis is being fans of superstars such as how LeBron fans immediately switched to being fans of teams LeBron moved to.

Footy players aren't Hollywood A listers, the vast majority of footy fans pay to see their club succeed not watch any specific player like they do Cruise, di Caprio, Pitt, etc... on the big screen.

Can you name any players who are delusional about their standing in the game?

 

[randyzany]

Can you name any players who are delusional about their standing in the game?

I didn't say that I knew of one, just that any player that thinks they're bigger than Collingwood, Geelong, Carlton, Essendon, etc.. is immediately a delusional idiot along with family and friends who think such tripe. Players are only relevant because of the clubs they play for, anyone arguing to the contrary is living in fantasy land.

Maybe a superstar like GAJ will be more relevant in the long run than the Budgy Smuggling team he played for up in the Gold Coast but that still remains to be seen. And that's only because it is a soulless franchise with a miniscule insignificant fan base that needs to be wholly subsidised by the league itself more than a decade after it was set up.

I always suspected family and friends posted on BF in this thread proves it.

 

[Cyclops]

Interesting view from a Collingwood fan.

From my interaction with the average footy fan they care far more about the club than they will ever care about any particular footy player, there are exceptions of course but that is the general rule.

The only ones that will disagree with this stance I assume would be players themselves who are delusional about their standing in the game and perhaps their friends and families.

The AFL isn't the NBA where the emphasis is being fans of superstars such as how LeBron fans immediately switched to being fans of teams LeBron moved to.

Footy players aren't Hollywood A listers, the vast majority of footy fans pay to see their club succeed not watch any specific player like they do Cruise, di Caprio, Pitt, etc... on the big screen.

100%, footy players are not Hollywood stars, they are footy players. No players, no sport.

Sure we have club loyalty, and it is encouraged, and I very much enjoy the tribalism and barracking.

None if that exists unless someone pulls on a boot and kicks a ball.

Football starts and ends with players. The rest rides on their backs.

If they get paid thats nice. If its a job they are the workforce and not slaves, more power to them.

I am baffled people think our sport is about, what? Boards? Sponsors? Idiots like me in the crowd? Administrators? All the parasites and hangers-on? The media?

The players are the sport. If you like the sport, thank the players. They carry the rest.

 

[iameviljez]

I am baffled people think our sport is about, what? Boards? Sponsors? Idiots like me in the crowd? Administrators? All the parasites and hangers-on? The media?

The players are the sport. If you like the sport, thank the players. They carry the rest.

Bluntly put, IMO, the players make the sport of Australian Rules happen, but the fans make the professional AFL competition happen.

But that doesn't mean that one owes the other anything - it's just a symbiotic relationship.

 

[Cyclops]

Bluntly put, IMO, the players make the sport of Australian Rules happen, but the fans make the professional AFL competition happen.

But that doesn't mean that one owes the other anything - it's just a symbiotic relationship.

Yeah that's well put.

I guess there's plenty of blokes who would've given footy away in their mid 20's if there was no money in it, but I'm betting old campaigner eyes Dangerfield (yes yes I know he's a star, I don't have to like him though) would be still pulling on a boot and I suspect we have a couple of desperadoes who'd happily do it for free eg Maynard.

Stuff like leagues and umps help make a better spectacle, its definitely true, and humans being humans clubs take on a life of their own. I love all that too. idiots like me forking out a grand a year for seasons tickets help (I'm relevant! I'm doing my part!) but I have no sense I own the club, and definitely not the sport. I played a few games in my teens, thats more of a contribution than 30 years ticket holder.

I do laugh when I see some ranting fan (recently a few Blues but our mob have done it too, every club has them) spouting about players letting them (the fan) down personally, and "betraying moy club!".

 

[iameviljez]

I do laugh when I see some ranting fan (recently a few Blues but our mob have done it too, every club has them) spouting about players letting them (the fan) down personally, and "betraying moy club!".

I completely agree. The notion of players 'betraying a club' is bit ridiculous considering that the link between player and club is artificially and randomly formed on draft day. Don't get me wrong, I think the draft is a really great equalisation mechanism, but I can't pretend that, say, Max Holmes grew up wanting to be a Geelong footballer over any other.

 

[iameviljez]

betting old campaigner eyes Dangerfield (yes yes I know he's a star, I don't have to like him though)

Kind of ironic that someone called "Cyclops" would have a go at someone based on his eyes, plural

 

[Football Tragic]

Look youre entitled to your view, but I never saw a club kick a ball or take a mark.

As for the fans, well I go to watch the players, they don't play for me.

Outgrowths like umpires, leagues, clubs and fans are great but the sport is people playing, the rest is secondary in my view.

There's a lot of rhetoric about "the fans" but its mostly advertising guff. Take away any one element from footy, and there is still footy....except the players.

The players are nothing more than people good at a sport without the fans. Covid clearly highlighted this when players were playing to empty stadiums and the game felt hollow.

Its the fans who pay for the players. Their memberships, their attendance, their viewership, their interest, literally is why the players have a wage. Without the fans and the clubs that the fans follow, the players would never be more reliant than a local team (and even they often have fans that pay for food at the club, sponsor etc).

We support our clubs. The players are showing less and less loyalty to those clubs. They are about themselves and don't appreciate the fans that bleed for their teams, watching generation after generation of players file through their doors. We need to get the balance right between the players and the clubs because it should not be all about the individual - its about the competition, the teams, the clubs, but more of all - the fans.

The players have forgotten that.

 

[Football Tragic]

As for not being able to trade at all - what??? If the club is happy to trade and the player wants to go, why should the player be made to stay?!?

In other sports, players can be traded by their clubs to other teams without the players consent. To stop this, some players have a 'No Trade' agreement built into their contract so that doesn't happen. They can still seek a trade if they want one but the club can't. These players agree to less money for that privilege.

Atm, players have all the power with trades. Yes, teams can say not to trades, but it rarely happens and usually means the player will leave for less, at a later time. So, its almost always in the clubs best interests to agree to the players demands before they lose value and the footy world knows the player is desperate to leave anyway.

This balance is skewed. If players can demand trades, then why can't club trade players too?

 

[Football Tragic]

The preseason is about four months. It’s fine.

Its not four months. It used to be, now its more like 2 and a half. With a Xmas break its barely enough time to get the players running and to build a fitness & strength base for the season, to establish team culture (especially for the new recruits/trades), let alone lock in a new game plan with new players in roles/positions.

It's just not enough time.

 

[iameviljez]

In other sports, players can be traded by their clubs to other teams without the players consent. To stop this, some players have a 'No Trade' agreement built into their contract so that doesn't happen. They can still seek a trade if they want one but the club can't. These players agree to less money for that privilege.

Atm, players have all the power with trades. Yes, teams can say not to trades, but it rarely happens and usually means the player will leave for less, at a later time. So, its almost always in the clubs best interests to agree to the players demands before they lose value and the footy world knows the player is desperate to leave anyway.

This balance is skewed. If players can demand trades, then why can't club trade players too?

I am pretty sure that this only happens in North America, where players are paid ****-you money, and culturally, employees are treated like dogshit all over. I am almost certain that it doesn't happen in Europe or South America.

You have been given four examples this year of teams saying no to trade requests, and three from last year. Teams can say no, and they increasingly are doing exactly that. In the case of Petracca and Curnow, Melbourne and Carlton did extremely well out of taking a stand. Same with Geelong and Tim Kelly.

I think what is fair is that if players can demand trades, then clubs can demand that players get traded - but, exactly the same, the other party can say no. What's fairer than that?

 

[iameviljez]

Its not four months. It used to be, now its more like 2 and a half. With a Xmas break its barely enough time to get the players running and to build a fitness & strength base for the season, to establish team culture (especially for the new recruits/trades), let alone lock in a new game plan with new players in roles/positions.

It's just not enough time.

They're back! Pre-season resumes as players hit the track

Check out some of the pre-season action as clubs returned to hit the track on Monday

www.afl.com.au

This is for the 1st to 4th year players, sure, but it literally starts today.

 

[Football Tragic]

I am pretty sure that this only happens in North America, where players are paid ****-you money, and culturally, employees are treated like dogshit all over. I am almost certain that it doesn't happen in Europe or South America.

You have been given four examples this year of teams saying no to trade requests, and three from last year. Teams can say no, and they increasingly are doing exactly that. In the case of Petracca and Curnow, Melbourne and Carlton did extremely well out of taking a stand. Same with Geelong and Tim Kelly.

I think what is fair is that if players can demand trades, then clubs can demand that players get traded - but, exactly the same, the other party can say no. What's fairer than that?

As I mentioned early, once other clubs know a player want to get out of another club, their trade value immediately diminishes. Its a poisoned chalice to keep players. Merritt wanted out and were going to receive multiple first round picks if Essendon let him go. They've held their ground - 1) what do you think the chances of him choosing to stay in the future are & 2) do you think he'll hold his value and Essendon will get an equal trade for him moving forward?

The Power is all in the players hands because, ultimately, the clubs have to have the players full permission to trade them but, conversely, the players can ask to leave and the clubs are backed into a corner to agree to their wishes or face losing a quality player for next to nothing.

You gave me four examples but I gave you over 30. The power is all with the players atm and the balance needs to be readjusted.

 

[Football Tragic]

They're back! Pre-season resumes as players hit the track

Check out some of the pre-season action as clubs returned to hit the track on Monday

www.afl.com.au

This is for the 1st to 4th year players, sure, but it literally starts today.

As you said - 1st to 4th year players

 

[Purple Suit]

Yeah that's well put.

I guess there's plenty of blokes who would've given footy away in their mid 20's if there was no money in it, but I'm betting old campaigner eyes Dangerfield (yes yes I know he's a star, I don't have to like him though) would be still pulling on a boot and I suspect we have a couple of desperadoes who'd happily do it for free eg Maynard.

Stuff like leagues and umps help make a better spectacle, its definitely true, and humans being humans clubs take on a life of their own. I love all that too. idiots like me forking out a grand a year for seasons tickets help (I'm relevant! I'm doing my part!) but I have no sense I own the club, and definitely not the sport. I played a few games in my teens, thats more of a contribution than 30 years ticket holder.

I do laugh when I see some ranting fan (recently a few Blues but our mob have done it too, every club has them) spouting about players letting them (the fan) down personally, and "betraying moy club!".

I think you do own the sport, just a tiny piece of it like all Australian's. It's the same as a local oval or the beach, being part of the country and a citizen means the cultural and monetary investment in the game over centuries belongs to the people.

The big wigs in their ivory tower forgot this as they try to move it to paid per view and cost more money for no real reason but to line their pockets.

 

[iameviljez]

As I mentioned early, once other clubs know a player want to get out of another club, their trade value immediately diminishes. Its a poisoned chalice to keep players. Merritt wanted out and were going to receive multiple first round picks if Essendon let him go. They've held their ground - 1) what do you think the chances of him choosing to stay in the future are & 2) do you think he'll hold his value and Essendon will get an equal trade for him moving forward?

The Power is all in the players hands because, ultimately, the clubs have to have the players full permission to trade them but, conversely, the players can ask to leave and the clubs are backed into a corner to agree to their wishes or face losing a quality player for next to nothing.

You gave me four examples but I gave you over 30. The power is all with the players atm and the balance needs to be readjusted.

Oh come on. In many of those 30, the player was out of contract or the club was happy for them to go. Plenty of those were bit part players who aren’t moving any needles.

If Merrett still wants out next year, then yes, the club that goes for him will know they need to go hard - like Sydney and GC did this year.

I don’t want to see a comp where families can be sent all over the country on a moment’s notice for a stupid sport. I don’t think it makes US sport any better. If clubs want to get good value for their contracted players, do what Melbourne, Carlton, StKilda and Essendon did, and hold on to your contracted players barring a godfather offer.

 

[Quinten Kennedy]

They do wield an awful lot of power in the AFL bubble but that power doesn't really translate to the world stage.