Player Watch Will Hayes

[Gone Critical]

From memory he was gifted his early opportunity (2015) and carried for an extended period. Even his 2nd season in 2016 he was far from a lock with his strengths and weakness’s equally on display. Sometimes the timing of your opportunity favors you, sometimes it doesn’t. He was one of the lucky ones who got that extended exposure as he worked to remedy the weakness. As you say, the difference between Maynard and Ryan is that Maynard had obvious afl level strengths to build on, but that doesn’t change Maynard’s evolution.

I think Hayes is another that’s shown he has afl relevant traits. Now let’s see him work on his equally obvious deficiencies. Ditto TJ.

The thought that Maynard was gifted games was something pretty unique to the Big Footy echo chamber.

He was a good footballer in year one deserving of his games and his progress after year one absolutely backs the club view over BF

To say its timing gave him the luck to play those games is wrong in my mind. Good players play early is borne out time and time again. There are few exceptions. Re Ryan, who I would be rapt to be proven wrong on, find me even 1 player from the last 15 drafts who has a similar profile (small medium, no major injury concerns, who works hard with good attitude) but only 1 senior game in 1st 3 seasons, who then goes on to be a 100 game player or better.

I will guess there isn't one.

 

[stormskye]

The thought that Maynard was gifted games was something pretty unique to the Big Footy echo chamber.

He was a good footballer in year one deserving of his games and his progress after year one absolutely backs the club view over BF

To say its timing gave him the luck to play those games is wrong in my mind. Good players play early is borne out time and time again. There are few exceptions. Re Ryan, who I would be rapt to be proven wrong on, find me even 1 player from the last 15 drafts who has a similar profile (small medium, no major injury concerns, who works hard with good attitude) but only 1 senior game in 1st 3 seasons, who then goes on to be a 100 game player or better.

I will guess there isn't one.

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with Ryan’s prospects GC, but he’s actually had multiple injury setbacks backs. Was playing quite well at least in vfl before another long term injury this year

 

[Mollythedolly]

The thought that Maynard was gifted games was something pretty unique to the Big Footy echo chamber.

He was a good footballer in year one deserving of his games and his progress after year one absolutely backs the club view over BF

To say its timing gave him the luck to play those games is wrong in my mind. Good players play early is borne out time and time again. There are few exceptions. Re Ryan, who I would be rapt to be proven wrong on, find me even 1 player from the last 15 drafts who has a similar profile (small medium, no major injury concerns, who works hard with good attitude) but only 1 senior game in 1st 3 seasons, who then goes on to be a 100 game player or better.

I will guess there isn't one.

I think you’re rewriting history on this one. Go back and revisit his thread for 2015-16. I’ll leave it there as doubt we’ll ever agree.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with Ryan’s prospects GC, but he’s actually had multiple injury setbacks backs. Was playing quite well at least in vfl before another long term injury this year

Im happy to disagree. Most optimistic I’ve been for his prospects was early year 1 but even that form had waned prior to his senior selection. Had minor cameos since then but hasn’t dominated 4 quarters or been overly impactful imho.

 

[Gone Critical]

I think you’re rewriting history on this one. Go back and revisit his thread for 2015-16. I’ll leave it there as doubt we’ll ever agree.

We may not but as I say there was a bit of a fantasy on this board about Maynard. I dont think it was shared by the general public and certainly not by our match committee.

There were plenty who could also see his value and this quote I found by Vicky Park nailed it really. A great claim.

If you can't see the chasm between a young Maynard and Ryan then I can't help you. Maynard earned his games season 1 and season 2 franked that

The top three boys we drafted last year could make this a super draft for us, a 'foundation' draft. Very pleased with their progress. Expect JDG to play out the year in the seniors. Maynard is in danger of doing the same. Darcy maybe not, but his time will come.

 

[jmac70]

From memory he was gifted his early opportunity (2015) and carried for an extended period. Even his 2nd season in 2016 he was far from a lock with his strengths and weakness’s equally on display. Sometimes the timing of your opportunity favors you, sometimes it doesn’t. He was one of the lucky ones who got that extended exposure as he worked to remedy the weakness. As you say, the difference between Maynard and Ryan is that Maynard had obvious afl level strengths to build on, but that doesn’t change Maynard’s evolution.

I think Hayes is another that’s shown he has afl relevant traits. Now let’s see him work on his equally obvious deficiencies. Ditto TJ.

Your memory fails you.

 

[Vicky Park]

We may not but as I say there was a bit of a fantasy on this board about Maynard. I dont think it was shared by the general public and certainly not by our match committee.

There were plenty who could also see his value and this quote I found by Vicky Park nailed it really. A great claim.

If you can't see the chasm between a young Maynard and Ryan then I can't help you. Maynard earned his games season 1 and season 2 franked that

Thanks GC. Geez - I got the foundational draft right.

Maynard looked to be an AFL player from day dot. He had the hunger and competitiveness which, once his skill deficiencies were sorted, turned him into the player (brute) we all know and love.

Ryan has just finished his third season, and I don’t see the same traits. Not happening for me.

As for Hayes, I see some traits. I’m hanging onto hope for him. He’s a neat little player who has ‘something’

 

[Mollythedolly]

We may not but as I say there was a bit of a fantasy on this board about Maynard. I dont think it was shared by the general public and certainly not by our match committee.

There were plenty who could also see his value and this quote I found by Vicky Park nailed it really. A great claim.

If you can't see the chasm between a young Maynard and Ryan then I can't help you. Maynard earned his games season 1 and season 2 franked that

Don’t recall ever suggesting there wasn’t a chasm between the 2, that’s just you putting words in my mouth.

As for selectors picking him vindicating what you’re saying, that’s just twaddle. In 2015 we were badly hit by injury and a lot of players got opportunity when form didn’t merit it. Marley Williams played 20 games, Frost 20, Oxley 17, Jackson Ramsay 5, Scharenberg 4. 2016 wasn’t a lot different. Our defensive group wasn’t great. Maynard wasn’t a lock, just better than the next option.

We finished bottom half of the ladder in both those seasons for good reason.

 

[Gone Critical]

Don’t recall ever suggesting there wasn’t a chasm between the 2, that’s just you putting words in my mouth.

As for selectors picking him vindicating what you’re saying, that’s just twaddle. In 2015 we were badly hit by injury and a lot of players got opportunity when form didn’t merit it. Marley Williams played 20 games, Frost 20, Oxley 17, Jackson Ramsay 5, Scharenberg 4. 2016 wasn’t a lot different. Our defensive group wasn’t great. Maynard wasn’t a lock, just better than the next option.

We finished bottom half of the ladder in both those seasons for good reason.

OK in your words then. Maynard was

"gifted his early opportunity (2015) and carried for an extended period"
and
"He was one of the lucky ones who got that extended exposure while he worked on his weaknesses"

This was what you said after quoting me and highlighting my statement that Maynard "earned games early and was a lock quickly"

Quoting that journeymen got games in 2015 doesn't strengthen your argument that Maynard was gifted games and carried. All the evidence says he was a very good player young and near the top of his draft class when it comes to games played in the 1st 3 years. His career since has just confirmed the early assessments of him that the club and most people made.

Once picked for round 14 in 2015 he played the rest of the season and only ever played 1 more VFL game after that debut. Surely that would qualify as a player who eared his spot early and was a lock quickly.

Its nonsense to suggest he was carried for a long period and gifted many games.

 

[sr36]

OK in your words then. Maynard was

"gifted his early opportunity (2015) and carried for an extended period"
and
"He was one of the lucky ones who got that extended exposure while he worked on his weaknesses"

This was what you said after quoting me and highlighting my statement that Maynard "earned games early and was a lock quickly"

I think there's a bit of truth in what both of you are saying, but the key point that holds is yours. Even if someone like Maynard was "gifted" early games and I'd include Darcy Moore - it's because they were doing standout things. So whether the games were "earnt" or due to a get games into your talented kids mentality, the ones who play early are still the ones who become good. And very few who don't play early go on with a lengthy AFL career.

 

[Mollythedolly]

OK in your words then. Maynard was

"gifted his early opportunity (2015) and carried for an extended period"
and
"He was one of the lucky ones who got that extended exposure while he worked on his weaknesses"

This was what you said after quoting me and highlighting my statement that Maynard "earned games early and was a lock quickly"

Quoting that journeymen got games in 2015 doesn't strengthen your argument that Maynard was gifted games and carried. All the evidence says he was a very good player young and near the top of his draft class when it comes to games played in the 1st 3 years. His career since has just confirmed the early assessments of him that the club and most people made.

Once picked for round 14 in 2015 he played the rest of the season and only ever played 1 more VFL game after that debut. Surely that would qualify as a player who eared his spot early and was a lock quickly.

Its nonsense to suggest he was carried for a long period and gifted many games.

He debuted in 2015 to replace Goldsack who was injured in round 13 and only played 1 more game that year. We were already down the other preferred option in Sinclair R3-18. Maynard played 7 of the 8 remaining games in 2015. Goldsack also only played 4 games the following season compounded by Langdon only playing 5 of the first 6 games of 2016, and Tooves only playing 8. Maynard missed 2 of the first 5 games. Hardly a lock just fortunate that preferred options were unavailable.

 

[JuniorB]

I think there's a bit of truth in what both of you are saying, but the key point that holds is yours. Even if someone like Maynard was "gifted" early games and I'd include Darcy Moore - it's because they were doing standout things. So whether the games were "earnt" or due to a get games into your talented kids mentality, the ones who play early are still the ones who become good. And very few who don't play early go on with a lengthy AFL career.

The two draftees who debuted this year have AFL level qualities.
Hayes - speed, evasiveness, goal sense, footy smarts, tackling.
West - contested marking, goal kicking.
Of course, we only got a glimpse of these traits, but it's a good starting point, and both will develop with time in the system.
I'm optimistic about both of these boys.

 

[sr36]

The two draftees who debuted this year have AFL level qualities.
Hayes - speed, evasiveness, goal sense, footy smarts, tackling.
West - contested marking, goal kicking.
Of course, we only got a glimpse of these traits, but it's a good starting point, and both will develop with time in the system.
I'm optimistic about both of these boys.

I like them. Most likely looking kids we've picked up in the open draft for ages.

I agree with GC's early games view, but I also think that it is a product of the theory of getting 50 games into the talented kids asap which has been pretty prevalent. If clubs move away from that, the early games data will become less pronounced. I think you might already be seeing it at a couple of clubs, in which case it will be about the kids with the qualities you've mentioned regardless of whether they're playing seniors or not.

 

[riddick78]

The two draftees who debuted this year have AFL level qualities.
Hayes - speed, evasiveness, goal sense, footy smarts, tackling.
West - contested marking, goal kicking.
Of course, we only got a glimpse of these traits, but it's a good starting point, and both will develop with time in the system.
I'm optimistic about both of these boys.

R. Steele doesn't like this post.

 

[Jen2310]

R. Steele doesn't like this post.

Depends if you view the MSD as "draftees."

 

[riddick78]

Depends if you view the MSD as "draftees."

I would view him as a draftee, as it's called the Mid Season draft. Maybe JuinorB was only talking about the end of year draftees, vut i think Steele showed more than Hayes in his first year, not saying Hayes won't be a great player.

 

[Jen2310]

I would view him as a draftee, as it's called the Mid Season draft. Maybe JuinorB was only talking about the end of year draftees, vut i think Steele showed more than Hayes in his first year, not saying Hayes won't be a great player.

I think Steele has the benefit of being 4-5 years older and multiple years in the vfl playing against afl players to prepare himself. Where Hayes is a skinny teenager coming out of the draft system. Not sure the two should be compared.

 

[JuniorB]

I think Steele has the benefit of being 4-5 years older and multiple years in the vfl playing against afl players to prepare himself. Where Hayes is a skinny teenager coming out of the draft system. Not sure the two should be compared.

Yep, I was referring to the kids we drafted, although Steele has shown plenty in a short time.

 

[riddick78]

I think Steele has the benefit of being 4-5 years older and multiple years in the vfl playing against afl players to prepare himself. Where Hayes is a skinny teenager coming out of the draft system. Not sure the two should be compared.

Agreed, although i wasn't really comparing them, i just thought Steele showed a lot for a first year player and a MSD player too with no pre season, yes and being a mature player would be a benefit.

 

[Jen2310]

Agreed, although i wasn't really comparing them, i just thought Steele showed a lot for a first year player and a MSD player too with no pre season, yes and being a mature player would be a benefit.

He had to show something given he was on a 6 month contract or he could have been spat out of the system. Footy can be cruel, so he had to make the most of his chance at the level, which he did, and there are good signs he'll have a role to play moving forward.

 

[sr36]

He had to show something given he was on a 6 month contract or he could have been spat out of the system. Footy can be cruel, so he had to make the most of his chance at the level, which he did, and there are good signs he'll have a role to play moving forward.

Yep. Roan needed to be ahead of where Hayes was at last year to get an extension. I'm glad he was.

 

[Mollythedolly]

According to Footywire we can stop worrying about young Will as he’s been removed from our list.

 

[Jen2310]

According to Footywire we can stop worrying about young Will as he’s been removed from our list.

View attachment 2476704

You naughty boy Will, what did you do hahaa

 

[WanderingDude]

According to Footywire we can stop worrying about young Will as he’s been removed from our list.

View attachment 2476704

Footywire is good for historical player lists. They just don’t do the latest.

 

[Gone Critical]

He debuted in 2015 to replace Goldsack who was injured in round 13 and only played 1 more game that year. We were already down the other preferred option in Sinclair R3-18. Maynard played 7 of the 8 remaining games in 2015. Goldsack also only played 4 games the following season compounded by Langdon only playing 5 of the first 6 games of 2016, and Tooves only playing 8. Maynard missed 2 of the first 5 games. Hardly a lock just fortunate that preferred options were unavailable.

I think you are being too nuanced. sr36 is right in that clubs want to play the kids they peg as talented. This isn't gifting games its a recognition of their quality. One of the early games of 2016 Maynard missed was injured listed (round 4). When he was dropped round 2 he was back in a week. Never dropped again. Thats locked in early.