The Liberal Party - How long? - Part 2

[SBD Gonzalez]

The Teals are the product of a number of things but not only did Labor deliberately and strategically 'run dead' in their gettable seats but was tactically involved in their inception and campaigning.

The Labor strategy on Trump/Dutton was Albo allowing himself to play the milksop to Duttons strongman.
This ended up being a trap Dutton couldn't resist nor escape from as in the light of the post US election chaos Albanese instead of looking weak now looked stable, instead of looking cowardly now looked sensibly cautious.

The voice was THE focus of every reactionary media personality and for more than half of Labors first term.
It was a loss for the 'bleeding hearts' for want of a better term and arguably cost Albo some political skin but mainly with people who were never voting for him anyway.
It also gave the Coalition a false sense of confidence and bravado with what they considered a 'huge win' and vote of confidence in them but most of the electorate considered a non issue and a distraction.
I do however think it was originally intended as a wedge for the Coalition to consolidate Teal support.

Most of this is quite obvious to even a casual political observer.
I get the impression you think parties release their strategic plans on their website?

Or possibly I'm wrong and Albanese is just the luckiest son of a bitch on earth who has never indulged in any political skulduggery and simply walked out of a You Am I concert and into the lodge?

I suspect it’s a bit of both.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Yeah, like most far right politicial parties.

Far right politicial parties whom have all gained power on mass in plenty of Western Countries the last decade.

Australia is and will be no different.

Im expecting ON to be bigger than the LP at some point in the next 25 years, the only thing preventing that will be the LP forming a coalition to try and keep it a big brother/little brother arrangement like the Nationals.

Why won't Australia be different?

 

[Dont_be_a_Plonka]

Tactically involved how? I've certainly heard the attack line from the Liberals that Teal candidates were a Labor Party plot (or sometimes a Greens plot) but I've never seen actual evidence that Labor were involved in their creation or campaigning. Running dead by itself isn't a lot if we're talking about seats that Labor had little chance to win anyway, so I'm wondering what the substance of this is.


That sounds like it was banking on a lot, firstly Trump to win the election, secondly for him to turn on all of America's traditional allies including Australia, thirdly for him to do this before the Australian election.

I'm not sure I'd call it just post-US election chaos, as there was a three-month gap between the US election and the Liberals losing their 2PP polling lead. And in that time Dutton made a lot of unforced errors like trying to eliminate working from home.


Mate, I'm just asking in good faith for an explanation so I can understand how Albanese caused the Coalition downward spiral. Why the hostility?

Did I come across as being hostile?
I apologise that was not my intent.

I was being condescending saying 'these are obvious observations' but I'm also genuinely surprised at your expectations of candour from politicians about their machinations and plots.

Of course all scheming is set against the backdrop of world events which happen one way or otherwise without guarantees.
Still I'm convinced that the Trump victory and subsequent shitshow were absolutely predicted and planned for by Labor.

And a final note on how involved the ALP was/is with the Teals the answer is very.

They are a Labor wet dream come true.

 

[Dont_be_a_Plonka]

I suspect it’s a bit of both.

Everyone needs the occasional bit of luck.

Howard being on a state visit to America on 9/11 2001 was a gift from the political gods for instance.
But him being a cunning little rat was what made him.

 

[kalex6251]

Everyone needs the occasional bit of luck.

Howard being on a state visit to America on 9/11 2001 was a gift from the political gods for instance.
But him being a cunning little rat was what made him.

in the time between the MV Tampa boat 'affair' and 9/11 - there was footage of the little rodent being warmly greeted at the door of a washington dc establishment ..... always wondered who that person was - and why would he be congratulating that pi$$ant so generously

ive tried to find the footage over the years - no luck

 

[blueboy25]

Here we go again.....let's bring back Frydenberg

Forget Sussan Ley. It’s time for Josh Frydenberg to return

CAMERON MILNER: The Liberal Party thought outside the box to dump net zero. Now it needs to do the same with its leadership and bring back Josh Frydenberg.

thenightly.com.au

 

[Festerz]

Just in case anyone forgot, here’s how Australia’s commitment to Net Zero by 2050 began:

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Here we go again.....let's bring back Frydenberg

Forget Sussan Ley. It’s time for Josh Frydenberg to return

CAMERON MILNER: The Liberal Party thought outside the box to dump net zero. Now it needs to do the same with its leadership and bring back Josh Frydenberg.

thenightly.com.au

If Frydenberg had become leader prior to 2022, maybe he would have saved his seat. He won't find a safe one now. Thia is the existential problem for the Liberals, the extremist direction taken by the party room has cost the seats of all the potential leaders who were even semi-competent at appealing to the average Australian. This is why I say the remaining moderates need to walk out and form a new party.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Did I come across as being hostile?
I apologise that was not my intent.

Thank you. Perhaps I'm being sensitive, I don't know, I just wanted to understand what others see that I'm not seeing. I'm not one to accept on faith that a politician is undertaking a masterful gambit that is too complex to explain to the average observer. That's how MAGA treat Trump.

I was being condescending saying 'these are obvious observations' but I'm also genuinely surprised at your expectations of candour from politicians about their machinations and plots.

I'm not expecting candour, because I'm not asking those politicians, nor am I browsing their Web pages. I'm asking people like yourself and Festerz (although they don't seem to want to answer, but that's their right) who can see the tactics Albanese has apparently used to destroy the Liberals. They're not readily apparent to me, so I'm asking those who say they understand them.

Of course all scheming is set against the backdrop of world events which happen one way or otherwise without guarantees.
Still I'm convinced that the Trump victory and subsequent shitshow were absolutely predicted and planned for by Labor.

I'm sure political strategists will plan for several scenarios. And I'm not saying this wasn't the case, just that it was a lot of eggs to put in one basket. And until Trump started discussing tariffs against Australia, I'm not sure how well it was working. Again, there were three months between the American election and the Liberals starting to lose 2PP in polls.

And a final note on how involved the ALP was/is with the Teals the answer is very.

They are a Labor wet dream come true.

Okay, but I'm asking how they were involved, aside from running dead in Teal target seats. Can you please explain to me how Labor were involved in the inception and campaigning of the Teal movement? Or if you don't feel like explaining, could you point me to some articles that explain this? I googled and didn't find anything demonstrating Labor's involvement.

 

[jannissary]

Want to know how far the Liberals have fallen in terms of decency - I give you Liberal Senator for South Australia Alex Antic. His party placed him at the top of the Liberal how to vote card at the last Federal election.

His latest focus is on all those women who carry a baby for nine months, just so they can have a late term abortion (on medical advice) to rort the system.

To her credit, Liberal leader Sussan Ley condemned the motion.


View attachment 2471297

who's who of ghastly, evil people on that list. well done alex antic. alliance of the morons

 

[Dont_be_a_Plonka]

Thank you. Perhaps I'm being sensitive, I don't know, I just wanted to understand what others see that I'm not seeing. I'm not one to accept on faith that a politician is undertaking a masterful gambit that is too complex to explain to the average observer. That's how MAGA treat Trump.


I'm not expecting candour, because I'm not asking those politicians, nor am I browsing their Web pages. I'm asking people like yourself and Festerz (although they don't seem to want to answer, but that's their right) who can see the tactics Albanese has apparently used to destroy the Liberals. They're not readily apparent to me, so I'm asking those who say they understand them.


I'm sure political strategists will plan for several scenarios. And I'm not saying this wasn't the case, just that it was a lot of eggs to put in one basket. And until Trump started discussing tariffs against Australia, I'm not sure how well it was working. Again, there were three months between the American election and the Liberals starting to lose 2PP in polls.


Okay, but I'm asking how they were involved, aside from running dead in Teal target seats. Can you please explain to me how Labor were involved in the inception and campaigning of the Teal movement? Or if you don't feel like explaining, could you point me to some articles that explain this? I googled and didn't find anything demonstrating Labor's involvement.

Polls are very blunt instruments and unless there is a massive gap are really useless for knowing much of anything.
The pre election movement would have happened regardless of Trump imo.
It's the difference between asking people a hypothetical VS when they are making a real choice.

If you want concrete links between Labor and the Teals you will need to search LNP propaganda.
There are a few key strategists that are on the books and a ton more that aren't.
It's not news because it's not in the slightest bit illegal or against any rules to help other parties either officially or unofficially.

 

[Dont_be_a_Plonka]

If Frydenberg had become leader prior to 2022, maybe he would have saved his seat. He won't find a safe one now. Thia is the existential problem for the Liberals, the extremist direction taken by the party room has cost the seats of all the potential leaders who were even semi-competent at appealing to the average Australian. This is why I say the remaining moderates need to walk out and form a new party.

Dunno if I'd describe Frydenberg as semi-competent

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Dunno if I'd describe Frydenberg as semi-competent

I meant by Liberal standards. Perhaps we can say he's one of the least incompetent of a pretty incompetent bunch.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Polls are very blunt instruments and unless there is a massive gap are really useless for knowing much of anything.

Nevertheless, it's the best tool we have for measuring public opinion. I think it's fair to say the election would likely have been much closer had it been held 3-6 months earlier.

The pre election movement would have happened regardless of Trump imo.
It's the difference between asking people a hypothetical VS when they are making a real choice.

Well, we'll never know.

If you want concrete links between Labor and the Teals you will need to search LNP propaganda.

I'm confused, you're claiming Labor were heavily involved in the rise of the Teals but you're telling me to look at LNP propaganda? It's not exactly a reputable source.

There are a few key strategists that are on the books and a ton more that aren't.
It's not news because it's not in the slightest bit illegal or against any rules to help other parties either officially or unofficially.

Are you a Labor Party insider? I'm just wondering how you know this despite it not making the news.

 

[Dont_be_a_Plonka]

Are you a Labor Party insider? I'm just wondering how you know this despite it not making the news

Not really and certainly not for many many years.
It's not news because it's not news.

Pauline cooking dinner for Barnaby is news.
Fred Bloggs having a regular beer with John Smith isn't, the names mean nothing to the general public and like I said it's completely legal and above board.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Not really and certainly not for many many years.
It's not news because it's not news.

Pauline cooking dinner for Barnaby is news.
Fred Bloggs having a regular beer with John Smith isn't, the names mean nothing to the general public and like I said it's completely legal and above board.

Then how did you discover it?

 

[Dont_be_a_Plonka]

Then how did you discover it?

I watched it happen.

If you insist on some media then here you go:

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Though this article is about the NSW Coalition, the he pathologies it highlights are exactly the same ones afflicting the federal version.

Really quite baffling why they’re hurling themselves so determinedly onto their own swords.

I’m starting to wonder if some of them really have swallowed the Trump Kool Aid hook, line and sinker (to mix my metaphors) and really do believe that Australians are crying out for the same horseschitte as the MAGA whackos want.

The conservative parties can change their leaders – but it won’t stop the NSW Coalition’s death spiral | Anne Davies

The Nationals have a new leader in Gurmesh Singh, and Kellie Sloane could soon replace Liberal leader Mark Speakman. But the Coalition is fractured on net zero

www.theguardian.com

 

[nut]

Just in case anyone forgot, here’s how Australia’s commitment to Net Zero by 2050 began:

View attachment 2479256

Lying bunch of flogs

 

[Cyg1992]

Might as well just replace the entire coalition with fat gina at this point. It's clear where it's all coming from.

Would save a lot of wasted tax payer money as well.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

There are always wheels within wheels when it comes to politics.

Say what you like about his policies or his achievements so far but do not doubt Albanese is a political animal.
His dominance on the floor of parliament is second only to Keating in living memory.
His backroom success is evident in the split of the LNP (Rise and consolidation of the Teals was a coordinated plot ) and a united ALP.
Trumps re election was a boon for sure but that's mainly because of how Albo positioned himself and painted Dutton prior.

Even the Voice was a political success in as much as it gave the frwnjs a distraction and a focus that pulled resources time and planning away from the real ball game.

Obviously there is an entire party with strategists etc behind him, the whole thing isn't just Albo with a notepad but if you think the ALP isn't primarily responsible for the existential crisis that's gripping the LNP then you're just plain wrong.

And now with the beef tariff being lifted because he went with the stroke the dictator's ego approach he's almost untouchable in terms of Australia-USA relations in the short term at least. Remember when he was ridiculed about not getting a meeting with Trump? It's already in the rearview mirror for the media.

 

[Dont_be_a_Plonka]

And now with the beef tariff being lifted because he went with the stroke the dictator's ego approach he's almost untouchable in terms of Australia-USA relations in the short term at least. Remember when he was ridiculed about not getting a meeting with Trump? It's already in the rearview mirror for the media.

This is a good example of him skewering the Coalition into irrelevance.

As much as it grates me personally that he didn't give Trump the middle finger and insult him to his face a bit of diplomatic brown-nosing has removed any possible 'Only the Coalition can maintain our US alliance with Trump in power' angle of attack.

 

[Festerz]

For those who missed Sussan Ley's interview on 7.30 the other night, here's a quick summary...

 

[GrayRanga]

For those who missed Sussan Ley's interview on 7.30 the other night, here's a quick summary...

View attachment 2480476

Twas a bit of a debacle wasn't it?

The script she was parrotting had no reference to the questions and didn't give any confidence she believe what she was saying

 

[Festerz]

Lying bunch of flogs

They are attacking Labor - by ditching the policy their own party came up with.

Their ever changing position on Net Zero reminds me of the famous Groucho Marx line..

'Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well I have others.'