Review Winners and Losers 2025 draft

[daddy_4_eyes]

Assessments at this stage are so dodgy. Flipping Old navy OP around:

Winners:
1. West Coast
Have drafted the two best open pool talents in Duursma & CDT, in a draft where every other open pool player is considered a talent tier down. Added Lindsay, best kick in the draft by some margin with a high footy IQ, but at the cost of a F2 pick tied to St Kilda. Bulldogs were rumoured to have also put an offer to Hawthorn with an eye on pinching Lindsay, so it was a premium the Eagles had to pay to get their man.

Losers
1. Essendon
They brought in a speculative prospect in Robey, whose only real form came during a two-month purple patch in the lower-tier Coates League; Dyson Sharp, a talented type who looks like a Ben Hobbs clone despite Hobbs being recently delisted; and Farrow, the standout of the WA group, though his low U18 possession numbers raise doubts about whether he can transition into the midfield.

 

[We are back baby!]

This aged well ...

This could be Essendons best draft haul ever Robey,Sharp,Farrow look big solid units already can wait to see them play. Reckon Sharp is going to be an absolute gem and future captain imo.

Richmond did us a solid by letting us draft Robey thank you Tigers

Even before news came out that Robey had been hiding a back injury ... these top3 picks appeared all to be big bodied boys with no speed that have gone out of fashion .... like Jack Steele and Jy Simpkin ... I have heard them being referred to as the Big Glacial 3

 

[Rich01]

I'm not just saying this, but I'd rate Hawthorn's haul as second behind Gold Coast's.

Traded back twice to acquire multiple assets in next years draft.

Drafted Cameron Nairn who could literally be anything.
Schubert was rated by many as the best KPF in the draft.
Dalton is the high accumulation mid our list simply doesn't have, so fills a big need.
LeRay has massive potential as a pure wing. Now can focus entirely on footy after having to decide between it and cricket.

And Greeves as a rookie who was rated by most watches for years as a guaranteed first round selection.

Drafts are all speculative, of course. But the Hawks have as much right to be optimistic about their haul as anybody.


Essendon not far behind. Usually their drafting is cause for praise with a tongue firmly planted in the cheek. Not this year. I would have loved all of Robey, Farrow and Sharp.

Anyone after Dovaston in this draft will more than likely be a bust. The hawks were in this zone and traded out of it. Expect the future for this draft year m to be relatively baron for them. Even if the names seem well known now.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Anyone after Dovaston in this draft will more than likely be a bust. The hawks were in this zone and traded out of it. Expect the future for this draft year m to be relatively baron for them. Even if the names seem well known now.

We traded out of this 'zone', so clearly we didn't rate Dovaston and that group so highly.

However, you seem so assured, so I'll tell Sam Mitchell to take it up with the recruiting team and not to bother investing any time in our recent draftees.

 

[Daka]

The kid that played a handful of good junior games and that already has back issues because he's so tall? When the game has been trending away from tall inside mids for years to smaller agile Daicos, Butters, Ashcroft types.

Oh he also runs a really slow sprint time and bad endurance testing. Long shot he's a midfielder in the modern game. He's a forward .

Yeah pass. We nailed it with the Grlj pick who is a modern day player instead of listening to the media hype.

Not only that we already have Smillie who is even bigger than Robey on the sidelines due to injury.

Robey to Richmond never made sense, we picked Lalor & Hotton 2 mid-fwds last year. why would we pick two with our draft picks this year in Cumming & Robey? that's not a balanced list or smart recruiting.

I believe Sam Grlj was always our man, given he played for our VFL team and carried himself well against bigger bodies.
Richmond recruiter Rhy Gieschen recently said in interview we were worried when he played good for our VFL team.

I believe that's the reason, we stopped talking to him to make it seems like we weren't interested and if another club thought we'd pick Robey they would trade up & may pay overs & we'd still get Grlj. and that's why he was linked less to us when draft night came.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Losers
1. Essendon
They brought in a speculative prospect in Robey, whose only real form came during a two-month purple patch in the lower-tier Coates League; Dyson Sharp, a talented type who looks like a Ben Hobbs clone despite Hobbs being recently delisted; and Farrow, the standout of the WA group, though his low U18 possession numbers raise doubts about whether he can transition into the midfield.

I am surprised Essendon went for Sharp. There current midfield is a bit one dimensional and he does not help this at all.

I think he would have been a great selection for Adelaide, as they don't have many inside mids.

If they swapped Sharp for someone like Dovaston, then I think they are starting to build a really well rounded list.

 

[Yoda_]

I am surprised Essendon went for Sharp. There current midfield is a bit one dimensional and he does not help this at all.

I think he would have been a great selection for Adelaide, as they don't have many inside mids.

If they swapped Sharp for someone like Dovaston, then I think they are starting to build a really well rounded list.

If you dont think Dyson Sharp is a good fit for Essendon, best you dont comment on Essendon and its needs. A more perfect fit for us than Willem Duursma

 

[TheUnicorn]

People are going to hate on us no matter what we do, it will be wrong simply because Essendon did it.

Truth is, at this point nobody knows.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

The kid that played a handful of good junior games and that already has back issues because he's so tall? When the game has been trending away from tall inside mids for years to smaller agile Daicos, Butters, Ashcroft types.

Oh he also runs a really slow sprint time and bad endurance testing. Long shot he's a midfielder in the modern game. He's a forward .

Yeah pass. We nailed it with the Grlj pick who is a modern day player instead of listening to the media hype.

To be fair I think robey will be a gun as a hybrid forward but you probably dont need that type with what Lalor will be-you need more outside run in your midfield. Both clubs picked the player that suited their needs.

 

[Rich01]

Seems West Coast saved Essendon from themselves early in the draft.

Offering two of their top ten picks for CDT was a big price to pay. CDT and Robey are two ballsy calls - huge upside picks that could ignite the club one way or the other.

Instead they kept their picks and got a fantastic balance with the upside of Robey, the steadiness or Clarke and something in the middle with Farrow.
Think they are still missing some speed in the middle but they’ve given the middle of the ground a massive boost.
Big tick.

I think that trade would have worked for West Coast though. Robey/Farrow and Clarke would have plugged straight into an average midfield and complemented Harley as the burst player there. Those players would have suited the Eagles much more than a boom or bust pick in CDT, regardless of talent.

In the end it seems like both clubs are really happy with what they got but I think Rosa did an amazing job on the night picking the talent available for what the club needed. The only change I’d have made is picking Taylor for his leadership down back to complement Clarke in the middle and the leadership void at the club. As well as finding a way to match Sweid.

 

[Rich01]

To be fair I think robey will be a gun as a hybrid forward but you probably dont need that type with what Lalor will be-you need more outside run in your midfield. Both clubs picked the player that suited their needs.

I wanted him but my concern was that he wouldn’t be a mid at AFL level. Lack of pace and agility in the limited exposure he had at junior level.

But… he does have amazing hands. I get that Carey pose he does when he does this with straightforward marks, runs forward, jumps and takes it in front of his eyes. Runs up the ground to win possession then back again to get the ball inside 50 on a good lead. Kicks straight. All good tricks to have.

He could be a 30-40 goal a season forward if they played him there.

But if he developed into a mid and could produce at that position, that’s where the competition would truly see a monster.

 

[Sphynx]

Hope it’s a bloody good two tackles, Wardlaw has no place in a discussion with Ginbey or Reid.

Hewett vs Wardlaw will be interesting next year.

Wardlaw despite it supposedly being a strength of his, has a poor clearance win rate.

What a bizarre take.

I think you will find that most of the AFL Data Analysts have the complete opposite view on this topic.

He’s been injured and had interrupted periods, but there is absolute zero doubt Wardlaw is one the best young mids in the league when he’s on the ground.

In the few periods of continuity he’s ever had since debuting he rated in CD top 20 players in the comp in their rolling “last 5 games” list in the year prior.

Im not going to disparage Ginbey or Reid for the sake of this argument, who are both tracking well, but you seriously need to look at this a little closer.

CD ranked him ahead of JHF, NWM and Callaghan for u21 mids after 2024 and the only mids ahead of him for 2025 were Ashcroft and Freijah.

They value total impact over your ignorant back of the paper stats, obviously.

 

[Altum Volantes]

I think that trade would have worked for West Coast though. Robey/Farrow and Clarke would have plugged straight into an average midfield and complemented Harley as the burst player there. Those players would have suited the Eagles much more than a boom or bust pick in CDT, regardless of talent..

So....Robey, a forward who has played some midfield stints for a short time, Farrow, a medium defender with midfield potential and Clarke...well I don't know who Clarke is.

Do you mean Sharp?

Sharp is a mid, maybe you meant him.

So these 3 are 'plug straight in' AFL midfielders?

 

[Shueygod]

What a bizarre take.

I think you will find that most of the AFL Data Analysts have the complete opposite view on this topic.

He’s been injured and had interrupted periods, but there is absolute zero doubt Wardlaw is one the best young mids in the league when he’s on the ground.

In the few periods of continuity he’s ever had since debuting he rated in CD top 20 players in the comp in their rolling “last 5 games” list in the year prior.

Im not going to disparage Ginbey or Reid for the sake of this argument, who are both tracking well, but you seriously need to look at this a little closer.

CD ranked him ahead of JHF, NWM and Callaghan for u21 mids after 2024 and the only mids ahead of him for 2025 were Ashcroft and Freijah.

They value total impact over your ignorant back of the paper stats, obviously.

Pretty simple stat, centre clearness per centre bounce attendance. He rates bottom 10 in the league.

 

[Rich01]

So....Robey, a forward who has played some midfield stints for a short time, Farrow, a medium defender with midfield potential and Clarke...well I don't know who Clarke is.

Do you mean Sharp?

Sharp is a mid, maybe you meant him.

So these 3 are 'plug straight in' AFL midfielders?

Yup, apologies. Sharp.

 

[Lars27]

I am surprised Essendon went for Sharp. There current midfield is a bit one dimensional and he does not help this at all.

I think he would have been a great selection for Adelaide, as they don't have many inside mids.

If they swapped Sharp for someone like Dovaston, then I think they are starting to build a really well rounded list.

Our inside mids are Durham, Caldwell, Merrett (30 years old) Parish (injury prone and 28) Tsatas (high chance of being delisted). The size/height of those players is below average too. Sharp was a very big need in my opinion.

 

[Sphynx]

Pretty simple stat, centre clearness per centre bounce attendance. He rates bottom 10 in the league.

Prove it.

His CC/CBA is 7.9

Which is right next to Will Day, James Worpel, Jordan De Goey and right ahead of Tim Taranto.

All noted shit center square midfielders…

A stat dominated by Adam Cerra and Sam Durham, so you are cherry picking something of vital importance when I’ve just told you his all round game has been rated well ahead of the names you previously said were miles in front of him.

Now have a look at the actual midfield stats AFL clubs actually value.

Loose ball gets, ground ball gets, hardball gets, first possessions, first possessions leading to a clean clearance etc etc, CP leading to score involvement etc

 

[Shueygod]

Prove it.

His CC/CBA is 7.9

Which is right next to Will Day, James Worpel, Jordan De Goey and right ahead of Tim Taranto.

All noted shit center square midfielders…

A stat dominated by Adam Cerra and Sam Durham, so you are cherry picking something of vital importance when I’ve just told you his all round game has been rated well ahead of the names you previously said were miles in front of him.

Now have a look at the actual midfield stats AFL clubs actually value.

Loose ball gets, ground ball gets, hardball gets, first possessions, first possessions leading to a clean clearance etc etc, CP leading to score involvement etc

Prove what?

He’s literally 10th worst in the league for non rucks at it.

This is just an objective fact, you saying it’s a bizarre take then bringing in a bunch of irrelevant stats doesn’t change it.

 

[Sphynx]

Prove what?

He’s literally 10th worst in the league for non rucks at it.

This is just an objective fact, you saying it’s a bizarre take then bringing in a bunch of irrelevant stats doesn’t change it.

You haven’t stated what caveat you have put on that data, what qualifier for the CBA %?

Pretty easy to make someone bottom 10 of anything…

He’s not the 10th worst in the ENTIRE league is he?

Hes 10th worst of your data set…so, no, not an objective fact…

Look, no longer bottom 10, magic!





Will Phillips and Tsatas > Harley Reid

 

[SSSSSS]

Prove what?

He’s literally 10th worst in the league for non rucks at it.

This is just an objective fact, you saying it’s a bizarre take then bringing in a bunch of irrelevant stats doesn’t change it.

I mean that's a weird stat to hang the entire worth of a player on to.

Dunkley/Long/Drew/Kennedy/Nash/Walsh and even Day are all playing as either a defensive mid/sweeper (who will be looking to either actively shut down the oppositions mid or at least halve the clearance) or a receiver (who will be looking to receive the ball after the clearance has been completed).

I'd imagine in North's team LDU is the guy that Xerri is going to be primarily hitting it to rather than Wardlaw. Wardlaw is probably forced into a more defensive role.

 

[Sphynx]

I mean that's a weird stat to hang the entire worth of a player on to.

Dunkley/Long/Drew/Kennedy/Nash/Walsh and even Day are all playing as either a defensive mid/sweeper (who will be looking to either actively shut down the oppositions mid or at least halve the clearance) or a receiver (who will be looking to receive the ball after the clearance has been completed).

I'd imagine in North's team LDU is the guy that Xerri is going to be primarily hitting it to rather than Wardlaw. Wardlaw is probably forced into a more defensive role.

Wardlaw IS North’s defensive midfielder.

Hence why he’s got the best defensive numbers of any u21 mid in the game.

Another fact that poster conveniently overlooked

He is one of the highest pressure per minute players in the entire league and has been for 2 seasons.

He just needs to start upping to 75%+ TOG per game

 

[Keystone agony]

I'm not just saying this, but I'd rate Hawthorn's haul as second behind Gold Coast's.

Traded back twice to acquire multiple assets in next years draft.

Drafted Cameron Nairn who could literally be anything.
Schubert was rated by many as the best KPF in the draft.
Dalton is the high accumulation mid our list simply doesn't have, so fills a big need.
LeRay has massive potential as a pure wing. Now can focus entirely on footy after having to decide between it and cricket.

And Greeves as a rookie who was rated by most watches for years as a guaranteed first round selection.

Drafts are all speculative, of course. But the Hawks have as much right to be optimistic about their haul as anybody.


Essendon not far behind. Usually their drafting is cause for praise with a tongue firmly planted in the cheek. Not this year. I would have loved all of Robey, Farrow and Sharp.

I live what hawks did

Everyone only talks about trading up and never down, so sometimes the value is there to trade back

But Dalton an acummulator you dont have? Josh Ward, Cam Mackenzie both accumulate pretty well

 

[Shueygod]

You haven’t stated what caveat you have put on that data, what qualifier for the CBA %?

Pretty easy to make someone bottom 10 of anything…

He’s not the 10th worst in the ENTIRE league is he?

Hes 10th worst of your data set…so, no, not an objective fact…

Look, no longer bottom 10, magic!


View attachment 2487900


Will Phillips and Tsatas > Harley Reid

View attachment 2487903

He’s 10th worst in the league with a decent sample size, Tsatas is notoriously good at winning clearances. It’s his only strength.

I mean that's a weird stat to hang the entire worth of a player on to.

Dunkley/Long/Drew/Kennedy/Nash/Walsh and even Day are all playing as either a defensive mid/sweeper (who will be looking to either actively shut down the oppositions mid or at least halve the clearance) or a receiver (who will be looking to receive the ball after the clearance has been completed).

I'd imagine in North's team LDU is the guy that Xerri is going to be primarily hitting it to rather than Wardlaw. Wardlaw is probably forced into a more defensive role.

Where did I hang the entire worth of Wardlaw on it?

I said he’s poor at winning clearances, that is all. The statistics support that.

Wardlaw IS North’s defensive midfielder.

Hence why he’s got the best defensive numbers of any u21 mid in the game.

Another fact that poster conveniently overlooked

He is one of the highest pressure per minute players in the entire league and has been for 2 seasons.

He just needs to start upping to 75%+ TOG per game

I don’t know where you’ve got this notion that I don’t rate Wardlaws defensive ability, I specifically highlighted it.

There’s a reason he’s a defensive mid though, it’s because he’s one of the least damaging kicks in the league. 526th of 566 players to be precise.

I don’t rate him as high as Reid or Ginbey, he’s a fine player albeit I don’t value paying pick 3 for a defensive mid.

 

[Sphynx]

He’s 10th worst in the league with a decent sample size, Tsatas is notoriously good at winning clearances. It’s his only strength.

Where did I hang the entire worth of Wardlaw on it?

I said he’s poor at winning clearances, that is all. The statistics support that.


I don’t know where you’ve got this notion that I don’t rate Wardlaws defensive ability, I specifically highlighted it.

There’s a reason he’s a defensive mid though, it’s because he’s one of the least damaging kicks in the league. 526th of 566 players to be precise.

I don’t rate him as high as Reid or Ginbey, he’s a fine player albeit I don’t value paying pick 3 for a defensive mid.

Thats fine

I probably don’t rate a failed midfielder turned back pocket and a midfielder turned who knows what yet, as highly either…

 

[Shueygod]

Thats fine

I probably don’t rate a failed midfielder turned back pocket and a midfielder turned who knows what yet, as highly either…

“Failed midfielder” had eerily similar stats to your boy in his first year.
Games with 40% + CBA’s:

(7 game sample size 57% CBA average)
15D
7.9T
8CP
3.2Cl

(11 game sample size 59.5% CBA average)
17.4D
5.5T
8.7Cp
3.6Cl

When do we think Wardlaw moves to the backline?