Mega Thread General MFC Discussion IV

[PerfectFooty]

I gave this a listen and it was very good imo. Good research and a lot of stuff I had forgotten about. Peter Jackson seems like the sort of person that gets rid of toxic people in organisations. He was great for the club and quite a loss. Without unpacking everything the Oliver saga was the most intriguing for me. I totally forgot about his hamstring issues in 2023. What really was going on there. The other thing was how poorly we handled the media and the constant delusional messaging of having a great culture. I liked the way this doco started off with the fact we brought in leaders from other clubs such as Cross and Vince to help with rebuilding the club and then concluded with the fact that we have young guys that have leeaders that want out. It definitely makes me think that bringing in Steele is the right decision. I also think King seems like a coach and not so much as one of the boys. The one thing I thought may not have been accurate was the fact Adelaide had offered 2 first rounders for Petty, I thought that was more speculation.

The only one issue i had with it was labelling Tyson as experience with Cross and Vince. Tyson was 20 when we got him. I know what it meant and that we got a role player to take some of the load, but ehh. Minor complaint

But in regards to Steele at the time I felt and said he feels like a Vince/Cross like addition, here to show the kids how to play and train right while still serving a spot in the line up

Oliver had his dodgy hamstrings right around the time the 'players faking injuries to dodge drug tests' stuff was coming out which even though I think the bloke is unprofessional as they come, with speculation, wasn't great timing for him if he was injured

 

[mrmonkey]

The only one issue i had with it was labelling Tyson as experience with Cross and Vince. Tyson was 20 when we got him. I know what it meant and that we got a role player to take some of the load, but ehh. Minor complaint

But in regards to Steele at the time I felt and said he feels like a Vince/Cross like addition, here to show the kids how to play and train right while still serving a spot in the line up

Oliver had his dodgy hamstrings right around the time the 'players faking injuries to dodge drug tests' stuff was coming out which even though I think the bloke is unprofessional as they come, with speculation, wasn't great timing for him if he was injured

Yeah it wasn't great timing for Oliver, but he may very well be right in regards to being missed managed. Wouldn't surprise me if we stuffed up his recovery. Equally it wouldn't be surprising if Oliver wasn't being a professional and not doing what he needed to do to recover. We may never know.

Yeah Tyson wasn't brought in for his experience but more of a ready made player to help out. He was a handy player early on.

The Petty stuff is inaccurate, I think the offer was McAdam and a first rounder.

The Trac stuff was interesting, there was a bit where they talked about a potential trade to a Collingwood or Carlton but I think it was Tom Morris who suggested Gold Coast in theory could get a deal done but there's no way he wants to go there. Funny how much can change in a year.

 

[MarcMaverick]

TBF with Trac, he played himself with the whole Brand Trac stuff.

 

[Headless]

TBF with Trac, he played himself with the whole Brand Trac stuff.

Which never once came from him.

 

[FootyBot13]

Some rumblings on the FJGD board about the Dees.

Oh, the team played fine in the year Thirty-nine,
We’re the Demons that no one can lick,
And you’ll find us there at the final bell,
With the spirit of Twenty-six.

100 years on...

Sounds like Melbourne might be honouring the 1926 Premiership, the only flag won as the Fuchsias. My guess would be that it'd be the Gather Round jumper for next year.

View attachment 2484603Dees admin seems to be hinting at a new clash jumper.

Hope it doesn’t replace the royal blue

Would be unfortunate if we got rid of the royal blue clash, since it also played the duel role of a heritage jumper that nearly every team seem to trot out every year.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Which never once came from him.

Correct, that was Bella.

 

[Headless]

Correct, that was Bella.

Source?

 

[schmuttt]

Correct, that was Bella.

Shut the **** up man lol

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Yeah it wasn't great timing for Oliver, but he may very well be right in regards to being missed managed. Wouldn't surprise me if we stuffed up his recovery. Equally it wouldn't be surprising if Oliver wasn't being a professional and not doing what he needed to do to recover. We may never know.

Yeah Tyson wasn't brought in for his experience but more of a ready made player to help out. He was a handy player early on.

The Petty stuff is inaccurate, I think the offer was McAdam and a first rounder.

The Trac stuff was interesting, there was a bit where they talked about a potential trade to a Collingwood or Carlton but I think it was Tom Morris who suggested Gold Coast in theory could get a deal done but there's no way he wants to go there. Funny how much can change in a year.

Think we know a bit don’t we?

Clarry broke up with his missus, got into bad habits, had insomnia and was playing pokies all night, struggled with recovery, poor behaviour escalated.

Had a mental illness flare up, needed medication (which likely contributed to weight gain) - then finally started getting on the path forward, which will finish with the GIANTS

 

[Topkent]

Think we know a bit don’t we?

Clarry broke up with his missus, got into bad habits

Can just end the story right there, if he wants sympathy after that he can find it between shit and syphilis in the dictionary

He chose to get into shit and he chose to become unprofessional. Mental and meds are a just a crutch for people with real ****ing problems

 

[Proper Gander]

Can just end the story right there, if he wants sympathy after that he can find it between shit and syphilis in the dictionary

He chose to get into shit and he chose to become unprofessional. Mental and meds are a just a crutch for people with real ****ing problems

Mental illness isn’t a real problem?

 

[Topkent]

Mental illness isn’t a real problem?

Not what I said champ

 

[Proper Gander]

Not what I said champ

Okay then. I’m lost now and didn’t get it. What was it you were saying?

 

[Topkent]

Okay then. I’m lost now and didn’t get it. What was it you were saying?

Clayton Oliver doesn't get the mental health pass for his behaviour for his last few years. If you play pokies and take drugs when you're a pro athlete and have way more access to help if you really needed it than others you can take responsibility for your shit.

By people far worse I meant there's people with no access to help or funding with much worse mental problems that aren't self inflicted

 

[Lord Nev]

Same people who talk about things like the 'mental health card' are always the first ones to make the most noise about the AFL not doing enough about men's health, suicide rates etc. Talk about how tough they've got it in 'the real world'.

The lack of self awareness to go after 1 player with personal attacks on the internet so consistently and then think they would have no problems at all cos they've got an AFL contract is mind blowing.

 

[Proper Gander]

Clayton Oliver doesn't get the mental health pass for his behaviour for his last few years. If you play pokies and take drugs when you're a pro athlete and have way more access to help if you really needed it than others you can take responsibility for your shit.

By people far worse I meant there's people with no access to help or funding with much worse mental problems that aren't self inflicted

Okay. Got it.

IMO nobody gets a pass for their behaviour unless so profoundly afflicted/psychotic/delusional that they have no control over their actions during that time. Oliver included.

The phrase self-inflicted is a bit like deciding chicken before egg though. Depending on the condition and the person living with it, substance and gambling issues are incredibly common co morbidities, to a point where a person is more likely to have these issues than not and can be more than 20 times more likely than others to experience such issues. So while it’s possible to have mental issues that stem from behavioural choices, it’s much more likely the other way around - that the behaviours stem from the mental disorder. There are no cures for neurodevelopmental disorders, mood disorders, psychotic disorders etc and we’re not even close. There are blunt tool drug treatments and various talking and/or behavioural therapies aimed at best at controlling excessive symptoms and behaviours but the efficacy is highly variable and for most it’s a matter of decades of try this try that before discovering the best available mechanism to have some level of control.

But you’re not wrong. Everyone has to cope with the hand they are dealt, however challenging, and make the best of it. And whoever you are, you can’t expect some kind of universally uncritical treatment when your conduct badly affects people around you.

Not sure about the last bit of “much worse mental problems” bit though. People can be high functioning for a considerable time before breakdown, or be very sick but episodically, or mask incredibly well so allocating a scale of good to bad is the worst kind of amateur guesswork.

If by funding you mean that someone earning a million a year is going to get the top notch treatment so is more responsible than someone who doesn’t have a million a year, I can’t agree with that. You can’t buy your way out of these things. Otherwise people totally would

 

[Crusty Demon]

Same people who talk about things like the 'mental health card' are always the first ones to make the most noise about the AFL not doing enough about men's health, suicide rates etc. Talk about how tough they've got it in 'the real world'.

The lack of self awareness to go after 1 player with personal attacks on the internet so consistently and then think they would have no problems at all cos they've got an AFL contract is mind blowing.

I see both sides to this one. Yep, mental health issues don't discriminate. It affects anyone and everyone. But we've also seen far too many people of privilege use it as an excuse for just poor behaviour and bad choices. Oliver is a bit blurred as I do feel it was both.

 

[Topkent]

Okay. Got it.

IMO nobody gets a pass for their behaviour unless so profoundly afflicted/psychotic/delusional that they have no control over their actions during that time. Oliver included.

The phrase self-inflicted is a bit like deciding chicken before egg though. Depending on the condition and the person living with it, substance and gambling issues are incredibly common co morbidities, to a point where a person is more likely to have these issues than not and can be more than 20 times more likely than others to experience such issues. So while it’s possible to have mental issues that stem from behavioural choices, it’s much more likely the other way around - that the behaviours stem from the mental disorder. There are no cures for neurodevelopmental disorders, mood disorders, psychotic disorders etc and we’re not even close. There are blunt tool drug treatments and various talking and/or behavioural therapies aimed at best at controlling excessive symptoms and behaviours but the efficacy is highly variable and for most it’s a matter of decades of try this try that before discovering the best available mechanism to have some level of control.

But you’re not wrong. Everyone has to cope with the hand they are dealt, however challenging, and make the best of it. And whoever you are, you can’t expect some kind of universally uncritical treatment when your conduct badly affects people around you.

Not sure about the last bit of “much worse mental problems” bit though. People can be high functioning for a considerable time before breakdown, or be very sick but episodically, or mask incredibly well so allocating a scale of good to bad is the worst kind of amateur guesswork.

If by funding you mean that someone earning a million a year is going to get the top notch treatment so is more responsible than someone who doesn’t have a million a year, I can’t agree with that. You can’t buy your way out of these things. Otherwise people totally would

Yeah look mate I wasn't planning on clogging up the thread with this, you're entitled to your opinion but in mine Oliver doesn't get a good guy pass because he played some good footy for a club I sorta support.

 

[Proper Gander]

Yeah look mate I wasn't planning on clogging up the thread with this, you're entitled to your opinion but in mine Oliver doesn't get a good guy pass because he played some good footy for a club I sorta support.

I’m really not giving him a good guy pass. He’s not really been a good guy.

But yeah let’s move on Mango

 

[Lord Nev]

I see both sides to this one. Yep, mental health issues don't discriminate. It affects anyone and everyone. But we've also seen far too many people of privilege use it as an excuse for just poor behaviour and bad choices. Oliver is a bit blurred as I do feel it was both.

Having money, or a professional sporting environment, doesn't mean you're immune to mental health struggles. It also isn't a 'free pass' to behave any way you want. To me, what it does mean though is you need to understand it's more complicated than some of the dumb simplistic comments that get made, and maybe if you're a bloke who has ever though about mental health or lived struggles through it, seen it with mates etc, then it's worth hanging up the tough internet persona every now and then to just consider things a bit more like a human.

 

[Topkent]

I’m really not giving him a good guy pass. He’s not really been a good guy.

But yeah let’s move on Mango

Haha I think people thought I'd hate this but it's kinda nostalgic tbh

 

[Proper Gander]

Haha I think people thought I'd hate this but it's kinda nostalgic tbh

My concern is you shouldn’t have a nickname until you’ve properly earned it

 

[Crusty Demon]

Having money, or a professional sporting environment, doesn't mean you're immune to mental health struggles. It also isn't a 'free pass' to behave any way you want. To me, what it does mean though is you need to understand it's more complicated than some of the dumb simplistic comments that get made, and maybe if you're a bloke who has ever though about mental health or lived struggles through it, seen it with mates etc, then it's worth hanging up the tough internet persona every now and then to just consider things a bit more like a human.

Not sure who this is aimed at, but I'm sure most of us have been touched by mental health in some way. I had an ex student of mine take her life recently due to mental health issues. She was 14. It's very real and can affect any of us. We all have different levels of coping mechanisms as well. Sporting stars are more susceptible due to the high expectations and public scrutiny. I felt for Clayton but I also can't ignore some of his behaviours. I think the club did the right thing by sticking with him a season or two, but at some point the club has to move on from it. I hope he does well and I think he will.

 

[Lord Nev]

Not sure who this is aimed at, but I'm sure most of us have been touched by mental health in some way. I had an ex student of mine take her life recently due to mental health issues. She was 14. It's very real and can affect any of us. We all have different levels of coping mechanisms as well. Sporting stars are more susceptible due to the high expectations and public scrutiny. I felt for Clayton but I also can't ignore some of his behaviours. I think the club did the right thing by sticking with him a season or two, but at some point the club has to move on from it. I hope he does well and I think he will.

Sorry, to clarify, not aimed at your Crusty. Appreciate you having more nuance with your posts about it.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Source?

Brand Headless