Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[Del203211]

If anything, a lot of the blame should fall on ASIO for not monitoring someone permanently, who had links to others connected to ISIS.

This. Fu** it is staggering.

 

[Fire]

When I was in school, sort of but not really. I was taught in vague terms about the stolen generation but it was only after school that I learnt about the Frontier wars and the organised massacres of Indigenous people by governments and private citizens.

It was only a few months ago the WA Governor first issued an apology for the actions of the first WA Governor James Stirling in perpetrating the Pinjarra massacre.

I remember something similar in the early 2000s. We learned about the stolen generation and how it was bad, but the people doing it had good intentions under the misguided belief that the children taken would be better off. Basically what the Liberals were saying at the time and what Brendan Nelson would shamefully spout when everyone turned their back to him several years later.

There was no further study into how or why those beliefs came to be or what transpired since to make them archaic.

 

[schneebly111]

Which is exactly what should have happened and should apply to all sides of politics and also to the Media.

Hats off to NSW Liberal Opposition Leader Kellie Sloane. She was present at Bondi in the immediate aftermath and has resisted overtures from the media to stick the boot in to her Labor opponents. Even the Premier Chris Minns complimented her for this in today’s press conference.

Yes I’m not a Liberal fan but big kudos to Kellie Sloane and her principled and unifying stance. Also a shout out to Malcolm Turnbull for telling Netanyahu to keep out of our affairs, although Turnbull isn’t really a Liberal anymore.

 

[Saint]

once again this lunatics actions had nothing to do with Christianity

unlike Islamic terrorists whose murders are directly linked to their religious beliefs
A pretty substantial difference

So, just to clarify. This attack on Jews, by Muslim terrorists presumably targeted at Jews specifically because of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, was nothing like the attack on Muslims (in two different mosques that he drove between) by a Christian man who was upset that the Muslims were replacing white Christians in the western world?

How is it that when a Muslim does something to Jews in a religious setting, it's because of their religion.
But when a Christian does something to Muslims in a religious setting, it's nothing to do with their religion?

I think many Muslims think the same, that these murders were not religious, as many Christians think Christchurch wasn't religious. But both absolutely are.

 

[faible]

It's an undeniable fact that there have been heaps of farm murders in SA though. This has been happening for decades. I remember my parents talking about it with people from SA back when I was a kid in Perth.

People seem to forget that in these attacks, they kill the farmhands too.

It's certainly a problem in SA although I daresay it's opportunity driven, rather than some kind of specific agenda.

Define 'heaps'?

South Africa has a lot of murders by the standards of Australia, only a small portion of them are farm murders. The number of farm murders would be 'heaps' by Australian standards, yes, but represent a very small portion of the annual murders in South Africa. Any murders are a problem of course.

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.36ZD7HY

 

[squawk]

Care to give examples? The recent attack was by someone who came to Aus under the Libs, was allowed guns under the Libs, and was investigated and dismissed as a threat under the Libs. But Albo is coping 100% of the blame.

If anything, a lot of the blame should fall on ASIO for not monitoring someone permanently, who had links to others connected to ISIS.

This is somewhat naive. It doesn’t matter which govt was in power when any of these things happened.

However, Albo is copping blame primarily because the media are being divisive themselves now - because they have a vacuum which they can’t fill so they are trying to drive their own agendas now. Stoke anger and look to lay blame. FFS this happened not even 48 hours ago.

Also - it’s delusional to think police or any intelligence agency can be monitoring every single person who pops up in connection which someone else. Do you have any idea how resource intensive that would be?

 

[1990crow]

Kennett: ABC has normalised anti semitism.

What a sick, pathetic, misinformatative disgusting slur.

 

[Sphynx]

We he’s got a point. The RW media and the LNP could have just offered condolences, called this a national tragedy and offered to join in unity with the government to combat hate and find healing.

But from yesterday morning when victims were still undergoing surgery in hospital Ley and the RW media went on a full blown attack on Albanese. They could have kept their gobs shut and saved the politicking for next week but they aren’t that principled.

Albanese raised gun reforms in the meeting straight out of the emergency cabinet meeting.

Everyone politicises every opportunity, especially a well known political weasel like Albo.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Including only sovereign countries we get Jamaica, Ecuador, South Africa, Haiti, Trinidad, Lesotho, Honduras, a lot of micro states, then all the way down to Nigeria at #20 with the first Muslim majority state. And then only 2 majority Muslim states in the top 50. The rest, including Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Peru and Ethiopia, are all majority Christian.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The question pertained to USA. Where was that on the list? If the assertion is true...should be in the top 3

 

[T2B_]

Care to give examples? The recent attack was by someone who came to Aus under the Libs, was allowed guns under the Libs, and was investigated and dismissed as a threat by ASIO under the Libs. But Albo is unfairly coping 100% of the blame, for things that happened when he wasn't involved.

If anything, a lot of the blame should fall on ASIO for not monitoring someone permanently, who had links to others connected to ISIS. And not flagging him to authorities who approve of gun licenses. Instead they dismissed him as a threat after a few months. Which is odd given the day and age, where ISIS is still a big threat world wide. They should have revisited him every now and then.

Bingo. Don't think anyone is gonna argue there's been a failure in the system, but this overly partisan hysteria towards Albo and co seems like an overly desperate attempt to try pin anything on them, maybe as a response to the landslide last election which made certain people very unhappy.

 

[1990crow]

Albanese raised gun reforms in the meeting straight out of the emergency cabinet meeting.

Everyone politicises every opportunity, especially a well known political weasel like Albo.

Well given your side did that immediately what else is he supposed to do.

 

[Saint]

The question pertained to USA. Where was that on the list? If the assertion is true...should be in the top 3

That's domestic homicides.

If you count killing civilians abroad, they're going to overtake Haiti and Jamaica pretty quick sticks. Even on a per capita basis.

 

[Aussie in exile]

She's a ****ing nut job, dumb as dogshit too.

I can only conclude that you don't have to be very bright to get a job on fox news america if she's the standard.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Care to give examples? The recent attack was by someone who came to Aus under the Libs, was allowed guns under the Libs, and was investigated and dismissed as a threat by ASIO under the Libs. But Albo is unfairly coping 100% of the blame, for things that happened when he wasn't involved.

If anything, a lot of the blame should fall on ASIO for not monitoring someone permanently, who had links to others connected to ISIS. And not flagging him to authorities who approve of gun licenses. Instead they dismissed him as a threat after a few months. Which is odd given the day and age, where ISIS is still a big threat world wide. They should have revisited him every now and then.

In fact, world wide, way too many of these terrorist attacks are the result of a failure by intelligence agencies.

I think its easy to say that at the moment but we don't know the evidence ASIO had on this guy. They said they had no evidence he was involved in anything imminently being planned or even as a cause to continuously monitor.

He was linked to someone that was ISIS related, not himself, that link for all we know could be incredibly weak in nature. They cant permanently monitor everyone at all times without at least some reason too.

It's a fine line between monitoring people, and us all living in as police state.

ASIO has been pretty good to date in preventing terrorist attacks in this country. I'm not going to bag them until more information comes out.

 

[Saint]

Bingo. Don't think anyone is gonna argue there's been a failure in the system, but this overly partisan hysteria towards Albo and co seems like an overly desperate attempt to try pin anything on them, maybe as a response to the landslide last election which made certain people very unhappy.

It's because the Liberals and Nationals are fighting for survival against a PHON wave. They'll do and say anything for their survival. Appealing to certain people who want to blame "woke leftists" for everything under the sun is what they're all about.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

So, just to clarify. This attack on Jews, by Muslim terrorists presumably targeted at Jews specifically because of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, was nothing like the attack on Muslims (in two different mosques that he drove between) by a Christian man who was upset that the Muslims were replacing white Christians in the western world?

How is it that when a Muslim does something to Jews in a religious setting, it's because of their religion.
But when a Christian does something to Muslims in a religious setting, it's nothing to do with their religion?

I think many Muslims think the same, that these murders were not religious, as many Christians think Christchurch wasn't religious. But both absolutely are.

They were both motivated by religious extremist radicalized ideology.

Also, assuming this was about Gaza without any evidence is a little precarious. The only links are to ISIS, who have beef with numerous muslim and non muslim sects, and predate October 7th by quite a number of years.

You may be correct in the end, however their motivations are still unclear, other than their radicalized ISIS affiliation that was missed by authorities.

 

[squawk]

I would love to see Albanese - at an appropriate time in a week or so - respond to Netanyahu and call him out. It’s time someone did so in a strong and measured way.

He is an elected leader of a sovereign state. No reasonable person condones what Hamas, a non-state actor, did on Oct 7. Why should some of the subsequent actions of a Sovereign State be condoned when they were no better? Those actions were not just about Hamas they went beyond that and targeted the Palestinian people in retribution for Hamas.

Albo should stand up and point out a few home truths and declare that some of the actions of him as leader of the sovereign state of Israel were no better and in some cases worse, than the actions of a non-state actor in Hamas. Albo should also make the distinction between the state of Israel and Judaism and the two should not be conflated.

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

i have never been spoken to or said gday or anything warm from an immigrant in all my years here

Probably because you never leave your basement.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

That's domestic homicides.

If you count killing civilians abroad, they're going to overtake Haiti and Jamaica pretty quick sticks. Even on a per capita basis.

Then Schneebly has presented evidenced that is misinformed.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I would love to see Albanese - at an appropriate time in a week or so - respond to Netanyahu and call him out. It’s time someone did so in a strong and measured way.

He is an elected leader of a sovereign state. No reasonable person condones what Hamas, a non-state actor, did on Oct 7. Why should some of the subsequent actions of a Sovereign State be condoned when they were no better? Those actions were not just about Hamas they went beyond that and targeted the Palestinian people in retribution for Hamas.

Albo should stand up and point out a few home truths and declare that some of the actions of him as leader of the sovereign state of Israel were no better and in some cases worse, than the actions of a non-state actor in Hamas. Albo should also make the distinction between the state of Israel and Judaism and the two should not be conflated.

He wont

 

[Markfs]

I dont have access through pay-walls, so I'm curious what Albanese should be doing about anti-semitism. I keep reading that he has let jews in australia down, but I haven't seen what he is supposed to do.

 

[Cyber_punk]

So the dead shooter came in under John Howard, got his gun license under Tony Abbott/Malcolm Turnbull, but Albanese and Labor who have held power just 9 of the last 30 years is to blame? Am I reading that right?

 

[bzparkes]

Define 'heaps'?

South Africa has a lot of murders by the standards of Australia, only a small portion of them are farm murders. The number of farm murders would be 'heaps' by Australian standards, yes, but represent a very small portion of the annual murders in South Africa. Any murders are a problem of course.

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.36ZD7HY

It's certainly a disproportionate number of people to the point the SA government has had numerous inquiries into is but it's also worth noting the South African Police Service stopped releasing statistics on farm murders in '07 and merged them with all homicide figures instead. Prior to that they recorded the figures separately.

South African farm attacks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For the record, no I don't prescribe to it being a 'white genocide', rather the fact that most farmers are white, which is why the victims are also disproportionately white.

 

[carlton_99]

Albanese raised gun reforms in the meeting straight out of the emergency cabinet meeting.

Everyone politicises every opportunity, especially a well known political weasel like Albo.

This is an odd thing to be upset about.

How dare we make it harder for something that horrible to happen again

 

[Cyber_punk]

Thank you mods for suspending Hu$tler. That inflammatory racist rhetoric is the opposite of what is needed at this time.

What's with 50% of the cookers in this thread being West Coast supporters