Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[FlowersByIrene]

His handwaving? He implemented the special envoy, gave 32 million to synagogues for upgrades to security, brought in hate speech laws, special operation avalite, worked on and improved information sharing between state and federal agencies specifically around anti-semitic attacks, or threats of. He has actually done more than any other PM on the threat of anti semitic attacks. Not that any of that matters, as there is not a single law being proposed that would have stopped the shooting apart from gun laws and ASIO/the AFP actually recognising the obvious threat from a known IS afflilated person, which they easily have the powers and funding to do so already.

That video has been debunked many times even in this thread.

Albo condemed the October 9 protests and language used, which were not "victory parades" as you put it. They were in direct response to Israel announcing it was cutting off all power, water and food to the Gaza strip.

"Israel has promised a “complete siege” of Gaza, cutting off water, food and power supplies after Hamas militants abducted more than 100 people during a surprise multi-front attack. Israeli media said on Monday the death toll from the Hamas attacks had climbed to 900."

Australia’s leaders condemn ‘abhorrent’ scenes after anti-Jewish chants filmed at Sydney rally

Anthony Albanese says images from the rally were ‘horrific’ and featured ‘slogans which are antisemitic and just appalling’

www.theguardian.com

Im curious what you want from the Australian government in regards to the Sydney Harbour bridge protest? By this time a UN report has declared Gaza a genocide and 300,000 people went to demand the government end our support to the government commiting said genocide. Two people showed up with a Shahada and one with a portrait of the Ayatolloh, what response does this merit from Albanese that would have stopped Bondi? I'm pretty sure he even picked out those incidents and condemed them, even though according to members of the Jewish council of peace who attended, they saw no direct anti-semitic material.

One more thing, one of those "Imaginary Australian Nazis" went to New Zealand and murdered over 50 people in a place of worship, they just happened to be Muslim. Nazism is a directly anti-semitic ideology, is it somehow wrong to worry about it with that in our very recent past?

It's a great fantasy you tell yourself.

 

[Markfs]

Sure man, I'm for calling out all bigotry equally. You won't win a "yeah, but nah" fight with me when the topic is who is more bigoted out of two backwards religions and their extremist followers.

i'm not competing. I just wanted to inform the readers that israelis - at least the jewish ones - are mostly supportive of their gov'ts strategy of killing off or moving out the palestinians.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

His handwaving? He implemented the special envoy, gave 32 million to synagogues for upgrades to security, brought in hate speech laws, special operation avalite, worked on and improved information sharing between state and federal agencies specifically around anti-semitic attacks, or threats of. He has actually done more than any other PM on the threat of anti semitic attacks. Not that any of that matters, as there is not a single law being proposed that would have stopped the shooting apart from gun laws and ASIO/the AFP actually recognising the obvious threat from a known IS afflilated person, which they easily have the powers and funding to do so already.

That video has been debunked many times even in this thread.

Albo condemed the October 9 protests and language used, which were not "victory parades" as you put it. They were in direct response to Israel announcing it was cutting off all power, water and food to the Gaza strip.

"Israel has promised a “complete siege” of Gaza, cutting off water, food and power supplies after Hamas militants abducted more than 100 people during a surprise multi-front attack. Israeli media said on Monday the death toll from the Hamas attacks had climbed to 900."

Australia’s leaders condemn ‘abhorrent’ scenes after anti-Jewish chants filmed at Sydney rally

Anthony Albanese says images from the rally were ‘horrific’ and featured ‘slogans which are antisemitic and just appalling’

www.theguardian.com

Im curious what you want from the Australian government in regards to the Sydney Harbour bridge protest? By this time a UN report has declared Gaza a genocide and 300,000 people went to demand the government end our support to the government commiting said genocide. Two people showed up with a Shahada and one with a portrait of the Ayatolloh, what response does this merit from Albanese that would have stopped Bondi? I'm pretty sure he even picked out those incidents and condemed them, even though according to members of the Jewish council of peace who attended, they saw no direct anti-semitic material.

One more thing, one of those "Imaginary Australian Nazis" went to New Zealand and murdered over 50 people in a place of worship, they just happened to be Muslim. Nazism is a directly anti-semitic ideology, is it somehow wrong to worry about it with that in our very recent past?

You still fall into the trap of thinking this is an antisemitic issue. It is not, well it is, but only tangentially, this is a radical Islam issue. And everything you just posted proved that Albanese never once addressed radical Islam, the only thing he did (if you attempt to give him credit at all), is address a broad concept of 'antisemitism' and even then limited that focus almost exclusively to 'neo nazism', never once condeming radical Islam.

You're welcome to provide receipts of the claims set out above that Albanese "condemned" radical Islam. I've never seen him do that, and I doubt there will be receipts. He didn't condemn it after those two massacred a crowd full of Australians, so he wouldn't have done it on October 9.

Also lol at that video being "debunked" hahahaha - didn't realise "debunked" meant "swept under the rug by a Labor government".

 

[Markfs]

Albanese has been criticised for over a year about his failure to respond to anti-semitism. His handwaving every time an incident occurred, talking about imaginary Nazi's instead of talking about the real issue - fundamentalist Islam. There was the "Gaz the Jews" incident, the ISIS (or whatever other black and white Islamist flag it was) carried across the Sydney Harbour Bridge, photos of Islamist dictators carried at protests, not to mention the celebratory parades in the days after October 7. All of this rising violence and extremism has been implicitly supported by Albanese due to his failure to stand up and speak against it for years now.

It's a great fantasy you tell yourself.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No idea on the previous one. But the latest was released today. Slight movement all round, but nothing significant.

Ok so i checked, the Poll was by "Resolve " I have no idea how accurate they normally are compared to elections.

Support for the Labor Party at each of their polls has been.

September 25 55%
October 25 55%
November 25 53% ( Rising costs ).
2nd-7th December 55%.
17th-20th December 54%.

 

[Markfs]

Albo payback from june of this year....

Australia sanctions two ‘extremist’ Israeli ministers for inciting violence against Palestinians

Foreign minister Penny Wong says ministers were proponents of ‘unlawful and violent Israeli settlement enterprise’

www.theguardian.com

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It's a great fantasy you tell yourself.

Didn't you learn on the playground that "nah ah, your mum's fat" was never funny?

 

[Combathorse]

You still fall into the trap of thinking this is an antisemitic issue. It is not, well it is, but only tangentially, this is a radical Islam issue. And everything you just posted proved that Albanese never once addressed radical Islam, the only thing he did (if you attempt to give him credit at all), is address a broad concept of 'antisemitism' and even then limited that focus almost exclusively to 'neo nazism', never once condeming radical Islam.

You're welcome to provide receipts of the claims set out above that Albanese "condemned" radical Islam. I've never seen him do that, and I doubt there will be receipts. He didn't condemn it after those two massacred a crowd full of Australians, so he wouldn't have done it on October 9.

Also lol at that video being "debunked" hahahaha - didn't realise "debunked" meant "swept under the rug by a Labor government".

I fell into the trap of writing a response to someone who clearly has no idea about the fundemental issues being discussed here.

I'm sorry that he's not talking like a fox news host in the early 2000's but you are absolutely wrong and it's insane to suggest he's somehow in support of or soft on Islamic extremism because he doesn't use your exact language.

"It would appear that this was motivated by Islamic State ideology," Albanese said.
"With the rise of ISIS more than a decade ago now, the world has been grappling with extremism and this hateful ideology," he said in a separate interview.

Australia PM says Bondi Beach attack driven by 'Islamic State ideology'

Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said on Tuesday that a father and son who opened fire at a Jewish festival on Sydney’s Bondi Beach appeared to be driven by Islamic State group ideology. Sajid…

www.france24.com

Even from just a few hours ago:

"PRIME MINISTER: I have tried, as you will have seen, and some have been critical of me avoiding partisan comments this week. I'll continue to do so. But it is very clear from the evidence which has been got, more of which is now into the public arena due to the police statement relating to the charges, that this was an ISIS-inspired attack, that we know that ISIS is an ideology, a perversion of Islam that essentially doesn't agree with any recognition of nation states, seeks a caliphate. It is an extremist ideology that seeks a caliphate as its objective. Now, there is evidence that will continue to be produced, some of which of course is not yet public. And I don't want to interfere with those investigations. But it is very clear that this is antisemitic. It's clear that it is an extremist position of a perversion of Islam which shows its position through support for ISIS. These people weren't shy about their motivation, and it is there for people to see. And I think that people should look at those facts which are there."

Press conference - Parliament House, Canberra

ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon. Eight days ago, terrorists sought to divide our nation. They went to Bondi Beach to unleash mass murder against members of our Jewish community and to unleash the forces of hatred and antisemitism in our society.Last night, the Jewish community...

www.pm.gov.au

Yes, debunked.

Afternoon Update: expert finds no evidence of ‘gas the Jews’ chant at rally; two killed by Sydney freight train; and Amazon profits surge

Examination finds with ‘overwhelming certainty’ that the words used at march near Sydney Opera House were ‘where’s the Jews?’, police say

www.theguardian.com

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I fell into the trap of writing a response to someone who clearly has no idea about the fundemental issues being discussed here.

I'm sorry that he's not talking like a fox news host in the early 2000's but you are absolutely wrong and it's insane to suggest he's somehow in support of or soft on Islamic extremism because he doesn't use your exact language.

"It would appear that this was motivated by Islamic State ideology," Albanese said.
"With the rise of ISIS more than a decade ago now, the world has been grappling with extremism and this hateful ideology," he said in a separate interview.

Australia PM says Bondi Beach attack driven by 'Islamic State ideology'

Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said on Tuesday that a father and son who opened fire at a Jewish festival on Sydney’s Bondi Beach appeared to be driven by Islamic State group ideology. Sajid…

www.france24.com

Even from just a few hours ago:

"PRIME MINISTER: I have tried, as you will have seen, and some have been critical of me avoiding partisan comments this week. I'll continue to do so. But it is very clear from the evidence which has been got, more of which is now into the public arena due to the police statement relating to the charges, that this was an ISIS-inspired attack, that we know that ISIS is an ideology, a perversion of Islam that essentially doesn't agree with any recognition of nation states, seeks a caliphate. It is an extremist ideology that seeks a caliphate as its objective. Now, there is evidence that will continue to be produced, some of which of course is not yet public. And I don't want to interfere with those investigations. But it is very clear that this is antisemitic. It's clear that it is an extremist position of a perversion of Islam which shows its position through support for ISIS. These people weren't shy about their motivation, and it is there for people to see. And I think that people should look at those facts which are there."

Press conference - Parliament House, Canberra

ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon. Eight days ago, terrorists sought to divide our nation. They went to Bondi Beach to unleash mass murder against members of our Jewish community and to unleash the forces of hatred and antisemitism in our society.Last night, the Jewish community...

www.pm.gov.au

Yes, debunked.

Afternoon Update: expert finds no evidence of ‘gas the Jews’ chant at rally; two killed by Sydney freight train; and Amazon profits surge

Examination finds with ‘overwhelming certainty’ that the words used at march near Sydney Opera House were ‘where’s the Jews?’, police say

www.theguardian.com

Again "ISIS" inspired, another scapegoat for him to hide behind (and one he had to be dragged behind), still doesn't condemn radical Islam in its most simplest form - which is what this was.

Also lolololol at that Article "where's the Jews" - and you buy that? That makes sense.

 

[Carringbush2010]

My nan's brother fought at Gallipoli and was killed in France over 100 years ago. Would you sacrifice a bit of democracy to save his life? There's a war memorial down the road with a bunch of my relo's and a heap of other people's names on it. What about them?

Small world, I too had great grandads fight in Gallipoli and France, probably like many posters on here.

As for the bolded I don't agree this is remotely close to 'sacrificing' democracy to save lives. One is a world war where soldiers (yours and my descendents) were sent without choice to fight.

The other is a mass murder motivated by ideological hate.

We were told when these laws came in that they would protect us. That failure is on ASIO, the AFP and the NSW cops. They had the legal tools to prevent this and they didn't.

And this is my point exactly, so why did our law enforcers fail? Is it because that they're totally incompetent? I seriously doubt that. Too much bureaucracy and red tape? Or is it because our law enforcement AND our judicial systems are too lenient to apply consequence and by extension deterrence to at least attempt to prevent future incidents like this? Is that because they're hamstrung to apply appropriate reaction?

Again I don't know, but I can make a reasonable assumption that it's probably a combination of all of the above, and that's not good enough.

In any case, terrorism COULD be less of a problem IF there was more focus on prevention, instead of what seems like lack of action to prevent, for whatever reason.

 

[Combathorse]

Again "ISIS" inspired, another scapegoat for him to hide behind (and one he had to be dragged behind), still doesn't condemn radical Islam in its most simplest form - which is what this was.

Also lolololol at that Article "where's the Jews" - and you buy that? That makes sense.

I feel like you not comprehending what ISIS inspired means says more about yourself and your lack of understanding. You know there are many sects in Islam right? Do you think Hamas and ISIS have the same motivations because they are both Muslim?

 

[ferball]

Small world, I too had great grandads fight in Gallipoli and France, probably like many posters on here.

As for the bolded I don't agree this is remotely close to 'sacrificing' democracy to save lives. One is a world war where soldiers (yours and my descendents) were sent without choice to fight.

The other is a mass murder motivated by ideological hate.

Ancestors, but iirc they had a choice. There was no conscription in WW1, it was a volunteer army. WW2 had some conscription.

My point is they sacrificed their lives for our democracy and for freedom. WE shouldn't be in a hurry to throw that away cos of shit people.

And this is my point exactly, so why did our law enforcers fail? Is it because that they're totally incompetent? I seriously doubt that. Too much bureaucracy and red tape? Or is it because our law enforcement AND our judicial systems are too lenient to apply consequence and by extension deterrence to at least attempt to prevent future incidents like this? Is that because they're hamstrung to apply appropriate reaction?

Again I don't know, but I can make a reasonable assumption that it's probably a combination of all of the above, and that's not good enough.

In any case, terrorism COULD be less of a problem IF there was more focus on prevention, instead of what seems like lack of action to prevent, for whatever reason.

Law enforcement is notoriously incompetent.

According to one social media post (so not necessarily a great source) the NSW cops hamstrung themselves (or perhaps were hamstrung by either ASIO or the AFP) by not acting against a particular preacher earlier. They decided for (operational?) reasons of some sort that watching him and observing who interacted with him was a better option. That's the best info we have about this right now.

 

[Markfs]

Didn't you learn on the playground that "nah ah, your mum's fat" was never funny?

i didnt indulge in such complex discussions in the playground...

 

[Markfs]

News is out on rupertnews that nearly 80 women have been murdered this year. Evidently, more blood on Albo's hands.

 

[Gough]

Ancestors, but iirc they had a choice. There was no conscription in WW1, it was a volunteer army. WW2 had some conscription.

My point is they sacrificed their lives for our democracy and for freedom. WE shouldn't be in a hurry to throw that away cos of shit people.

My grandad was at Belsen after it was liberated, then he self medicated himself to death.

 

[Scotland]

You're welcome to provide receipts of the claims set out above that Albanese "condemned" radical Islam.

"It would appear that this was motivated by Islamic State ideology," Albanese said.
"With the rise of ISIS more than a decade ago now, the world has been grappling with extremism and this hateful ideology," he said in a separate interview.

Weasel words by the PM, as usual.

It wasn't Islam. Or radical Islam. Wasn't even the ideology of either, It was Islamic State ideology. That clears that up then. I guess all the terrorist attacks prior to 2014 were coincidental isolated incidents then.

ISIS isn't an ideology any more than Hamas or Hezbollah or Saudi Arabia are ideologies. The only difference is that we recognise one as a state with which we maintain diplomatic relations and designate the others as terrorist organisations. 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000 people organised in such a fashion to militarily control a territory isn't an ideology.

If "Islamic State ideology" is the enemy then why are we rushing through new gun laws?

I feel like you not comprehending what ISIS inspired means says more about yourself and your lack of understanding. You know there are many sects in Islam right? Do you think Hamas and ISIS have the same motivations because they are both Muslim?

Why do people think this is important? Hamas, Sunni Islam. Hezbollah, Shia Islam. Both bankrolled by Iran whose govt is Shia Islam. Almost like they have a common enemy. What do people think would happen if Israel was actually driven into the sea and all of "Palestine" was up for grabs?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Sure man, I'm for calling out all bigotry equally. You won't win a "yeah, but nah" fight with me when the topic is who is more bigoted out of two backwards religions and their extremist followers.

Aren't they the same god/s in these religions? He/she/they seem to thrive off conflict.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Ancestors, but iirc they had a choice. There was no conscription in WW1, it was a volunteer army. WW2 had some conscription.

My point is they sacrificed their lives for our democracy and for freedom. WE shouldn't be in a hurry to throw that away cos of shit people.

My point is, it doesn't have to be zero or 100, no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. Balance somewhere in between. This is not unreasonable.

So no, I'm not advocating to eradicate liberalism or democracy, I'm advocating for some measure of social elements to retain that liberal democracy.

There needs to be more social elements, or more accurately application of the social elements we already have (supposedly - read laws and consequences).

As I've stated earlier, for whatever reason, social elements are lacking and here we are. I believe it could be much better.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

It's a great fantasy you tell yourself.

Its reality dude.

Reals over feels snowflake

 

[RCAB]

I feel like you not comprehending what ISIS inspired means says more about yourself and your lack of understanding. You know there are many sects in Islam right? Do you think Hamas and ISIS have the same motivations because they are both Muslim?

Do you think FBI has met one Musilm person? Unlikely. There's a few here like that.

 

[ferball]

My grandad was at Belsen after it was liberated, then he self medicated himself to death.

Sorry to hear that man. It must have been horrible for him.

 

[sherb]

Small world, I too had great grandads fight in Gallipoli and France, probably like many posters on here.

Grandad in my case.

 

[Gough]

Sorry to hear that man. It must have been horrible for him.

Brandy and ciggies, he was a professional level consumer. He's still got a Close named after him in Harare which is nice.

 

[ferball]

My point is, it doesn't have to be zero or 100, no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. Balance somewhere in between. This is not unreasonable.

So no, I'm not advocating to eradicate liberalism or democracy, I'm advocating for some measure of social elements to retain that liberal democracy.

There needs to be more social elements, or more accurately application of the social elements we already have (supposedly - read laws and consequences).

As I've stated earlier, for whatever reason, social elements are lacking and here we are. I believe it could be much better.

That's all fair enough.

But we have done this already, repeatedly, since 9/11. You're not asking for anything that wasn't already in place.

They should have the tools and the social elements. From all reports, going back years, the Muslim community is active in rejecting and reporting extremists who try to radicalise people and turn them to violence.

From what little we know so far this attack happened because the people who have the ability and knowledge to act chose not to. Not because of any wokester agenda or whatever but because they made that decision inhouse for operational, strategic or other reasons. Maybe they didn't have the resources to act on it effectively. That could also be an issue.

 

[Elixuh]

Regardless of your political affiliation, I would like to hear from anyone who doesn’t think this political opportunism from people like Ley (and it’s not limited only to the LNP) is not an absolute disgrace.

This is embarrassing stuff. How low can one stoop in the immediate face of a national tragedy.

It’s pathetic how desperate they are to try to gain ground on ALP that they need to use this incident as a political manoeuvre.