Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[Seeds]

Yes and this bolded bit is flat out wrong. Which is what I was saying.

Anyway its a stupid theory based on a one dimensional understanding of politics that trying hard to be two dimensional. Like all simplistic ideas it still doesn't really go anywhere toward explaining the complexity of what people actually think.

So are you going to respond to the main part of the point. That horseshoe theory is not about supporting the same people but simply about using the same ideological approaches to support different people?

Or are you happy to commit one of the most annoying fallacies of just focusing on what you perceive to be the weakest part of an argument/post and then pretending by solely focusing on the weakest part you have discredited the whole argument/post.

You say one dimensional. Ive literally posted 6 aspects and could post more. Democracy vs authoritariansim is not a minor political thing. Us vs theming as compared to advocating for compassion and empathy and understanding for those you disagree with is not a minor thing. Faith based unquestioned moral truths vs free debate and accepting scientific uncertainty is not a minor political thing. And pretending that there arent elements of the extreme left that dont advocate for different rights for different races/sexes does not mean its not true. Supporting vs rejecting human rights is a big thing and there are parts of the left trying to change the definition because they dont believe in it. I dont want to focus on this particular topic cos of the fallacy you fell for in your above post. Focus on the other points.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Aw poor widdoo gun owners.

Whilst I agree tighter gun control is warranted, it needs to be more nuanced to accommodate gun users that don't go around killing people.

I'm not even sure what the new laws will be, IF they are detrimental to farmers, gun club users etc. i:e then that doesn't sit well.

If it is reactionary and punishes said users through no fault of their own then that doesn't sit well.

The main reason I replied here is the cynical nature of your post, this is conducive to unity and only serves as ammo (pun not intended) to those you're debating with.

You're better than this Gonzo.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Aw poor widdoo gun owners.

Can always pick the city dwellers who think food is grown in supermarkets.

Examples of unifying discourse, NOT!

So snarky!

 

[Carringbush2010]

Guns Don’t Kill People. People With Guns Kill People.

A little off topic.

This statement is absolutely true and cannot be debated, guns are not sentient beings with nefarious motives, yet this statement is used to dismiss such argument and some are vehement in belief 'Guns kill people!'

Arguing the necessity of fire arms is absolutely so.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Aw poor widdoo gun owners.

I have to wonder why sport shooting enthusiasts are such a protected species.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Bro, you believe a bunch of radical Islamists chanted "where are the Jews" - youre regarded bro.

Can you show where I have posted that?

You cant, because it doesn't exist.

 

[Seeds]

Whilst I agree tighter gun control is warranted, it needs to be more nuanced to accommodate gun users that don't go around killing people.

I'm not even sure what the new laws will be, IF they are detrimental to farmers, gun club users etc. i:e then that doesn't sit well.

If it is reactionary and punishes said users through no fault of their own then that doesn't sit well.

The main reason I replied here is the cynical nature of your post, this is conducive to unity and only serves as ammo (pun not intended) to those you're debating with.

You're better than this Gonzo.

How could any gun law be detrimental to gun club users. Gun club users dont need to own any guns. They can just rent them on site and then give them back when they leave.

Gun club owners should need to proove that they need a gun at home and then need to proove why they need more then one gun. The laws are so far away from this its not funny. We live in a rampant gun state and this needs to be fixed. The proposed laws dont look like going anywhere near far enough.

 

[Rob R]

Why doesn’t she just come out and say she hates Australia? Only someone who hates Australia would be so willing to sow rancour and division.

FMD Bondi was appalling. But two Australians took rifles to Bondi to murder innocent Jews in cold blood, and 27 million Australians didn’t.

I agree with what you are saying but it was one Australian and a foreigner - permanent residents aren't Australian

 

[Rob R]

Guessing no? They are the ones that will actually be punished though.

They will still have more than enough guns for genuine needs. If anything the gun laws (long overdue) don't go far enough- still allow too many guns and don't ban non citizens from owning them

 

[schneebly111]

I have to wonder why sport shooting enthusiasts are such a protected species.

Shooters, Farmers and Fishers party held the balance of power in the NSW Upper House from 2011-2023. The government needed their support for any legislation to be passed, so they got a lot of goodies in return

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

How were they different?

Really? Sigh...

Motive.

Bryant's motive was largely due to his severe mental illness and also property dispute. He was motivated by revenge, isolation and rejection. There was no attributable responsibility or accountability for the federal government at the time to address pre-existing factors.

Akram's motive was anti-semitism and Islamism. Something that was front and centre on the national radar for the previous 2 years. Thus of course the affected victims' families and survivors are going to ask questions of the government, in regard to their culpability.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

How could any gun law be detrimental to gun club users. Gun club users dont need to own any guns. They can just rent them on site and then give them back when they leave.

Gun club owners should need to proove that they need a gun at home and then need to proove why they need more then one gun. The laws are so far away from this its not funny. We live in a rampant gun state and this needs to be fixed. The proposed laws dont look like going anywhere near far enough.

Rent them on site....oh my lawl. Do you know anything about firearms? You do realize every individual does not use the same size of firearm, it's fitted to the individual. Gun clubs would need to have hundreds if not thousands of firearms to accommodate all members. Localizing large volumes of firearms in one place is actually far more dangerous and at risk of theft and firearms entering the black market in volume. Besides, most gun owners are not part of a club, nor do they live near one. Completely ridiculous idea.

 

[Elixuh]

Poor old Susan can’t get the timing and intonation right. Fake anger is hard to pull off when you’re not a trained actor.

Margaret, it’s a half a star out of 5 performance from me.

 

[1990crow]

"Multiculturalism nirvana has failed".
This party is just pure excrement.

Coalition attacks Penny Wong for not shedding ‘a single tear’ after Bondi shooting, says ‘multicultural nirvana’ has failed

Coalition MPs also, without evidence, link government’s decision to recognise Palestinian state to Bondi terror attack at extraordinary press conference

www.theguardian.com

 

[ferball]

So are you going to respond to the main part of the point. That horseshoe theory is not about supporting the same people but simply about using the same ideological approaches to support different people?

Or are you happy to commit one of the most annoying fallacies of just focusing on what you perceive to be the weakest part of an argument/post and then pretending by solely focusing on the weakest part you have discredited the whole argument/post.

You say one dimensional. Ive literally posted 6 aspects and could post more. Democracy vs authoritariansim is not a minor political thing. Us vs theming as compared to advocating for compassion and empathy and understanding for those you disagree with is not a minor thing. Faith based unquestioned moral truths vs free debate and accepting scientific uncertainty is not a minor political thing. And pretending that there arent elements of the extreme left that dont advocate for different rights for different races/sexes does not mean its not true. Supporting vs rejecting human rights is a big thing and there are parts of the left trying to change the definition because they dont believe in it. I dont want to focus on this particular topic cos of the fallacy you fell for in your above post. Focus on the other points.

Yeah the whole point of my original post was that that one element I'm focusing on breaks the horseshoe model.

Which it does.

What you're doing is projecting alot of ideas onto the "far left" that don't really do anything other than reinforce your own biases without even defining it other than to reinforce your own biases. Its completely self referential.

The far right (mostly) promotes ethnic nationalism, violence in service of the theft of other people's resources via conquest and colonialism, heirarchial distribution of resources (matching a strict hierarchical social structure) the subjugation of women and the repression of non rapist sexuality (all forms of sexuality not just queer ones) and revel in violence and brutality.

Some don't do all of that and even have space for multiple ethnicities, non-rapist sexuality of any type or other things we associate with decent people but generally that's how it goes. many far right types would consider that a perversion of their views on racial purity in the same way that left wing ethno nationalist movements are a perversion of the lefts original internationalist ideals.

If you want a more accurate view of the way people frame politics try using a three dimensional model with X, Y and Z axes. You're almost there in that comment you made.

 

[ferball]

Really? Sigh...

Motive.

Bryant's motive was largely due to his severe mental illness and also property dispute. He was motivated by revenge, isolation and rejection. There was no attributable responsibility or accountability for the federal government at the time to address pre-existing factors.

Akram's motive was anti-semitism and Islamism. Something that was front and centre on the national radar for the previous 2 years. Thus of course the affected victims' families and survivors are going to ask questions of the government, in regard to their culpability.

So why are people blaming the legislature when it appears at this point its the executive arm of government (ie the spooks and the cops) that failed in this instance?

 

[ferball]

Poor old Susan can’t get the timing and intonation right. Fake anger is hard to pull off when you’re not a trained actor.

Margaret, it’s a half a star out of 5 performance from me.

These attacks on Penny Wong are surely driven by racism as much as anything else.

 

[1990crow]

These attacks on Penny Wong are surely driven by racism as much as anything else.

Gay hatred too

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Can you show where I have posted that?

You cant, because it doesn't exist.

That's what the link you posted concluded hahahahaha

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Poor old Susan can’t get the timing and intonation right. Fake anger is hard to pull off when you’re not a trained actor.

Margaret, it’s a half a star out of 5 performance from me.

Susan Ley is awful, but she's right about Penny Wong

 

[blueboy25]

Susan Ley is awful, but she's right about Penny Wong

How does she know whether Penny Wong has shed tears or not over the incident or just because she hasn't fallen to her knees in floods of tears at the site of the atrocity?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Rent them on site....oh my lawl. Do you know anything about firearms? You do realize every individual does not use the same size of firearm, it's fitted to the individual. Gun clubs would need to have hundreds if not thousands of firearms to accommodate all members. Localizing large volumes of firearms in one place is actually far more dangerous and at risk of theft and firearms entering the black market in volume. Besides, most gun owners are not part of a club, nor do they live near one. Completely ridiculous idea.

So every gun club member can have their guns, but they have to be stored securely on site. Solved.

I'm not in favour of beating up on any sector of the community, but the convenience of these people with their inordinate fetish for lethal machines should be shoved way down the list of concerns.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

That's what the link you posted concluded hahahahaha

Its funny how i have not posted any links, you are grasping at shadows that dont exist.

Champ its time to log off, take a long walk, have a shower and gain a clue.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

So every gun club member can have their guns, but they have to be stored securely on site. Solved.

I'm not in favour of beating up on any sector of the community, but the convenience of these people with their inordinate fetish for lethal machines should be shoved way down the list of concerns.

And when they want to go hunting?

You have no interest in hunting, sport shooting or land management so you would have that attitude.... however not everyone has the same interests/lifestyle....EG i have absolutely no interest in going to the beach. I see it as highly dangerous with numerous deaths every year....however i wouldn't ever support even the slightest restrictions for people who enjoy that lifestyle just because of my own feelings.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

So why are people blaming the legislature when it appears at this point its the executive arm of government (ie the spooks and the cops) that failed in this instance?

This is exactly why we need a federal royal commission. But Albo is scared of doing so... We dont actually know what failed. However, in any organization, leadership must take responsibility and accountability for what happens under your watch. Part of that is ensuring you activate any and every pathway to investigate independently and transparently. Especially in government, because it is often far more autocratic than most organizations in terms of deciding what will and won't be placed in front of parliament.