Test The Ashes Fourth Test December 26-30 1000hrs @ The MCG

[Yoda_]

Short is at least smart enough to know what he’s good at and doesn’t get his ambitions and abilities confused when it comes to red ball cricket. He simply doesn’t have a good enough red ball technique. Although after watching the last two days, maybe nobody does.

Feel Chris Green is in this category, white ball specialist who knows where his career is at. Will hit the T20 circuit full time soon imho

 

[A Pom]

It's Test cricket, not a Hollywood movie, you don't get to bank on set running times and happy endings.

Every now and then a match doesn't play out how we might like, that's part of the fun of it.

No need to complain every time a match ends in a 5-day draw or a 2-day shootout.

Yes there can be variation in pitches, you should get to bank on a pitch being of the designated standard though, which this one was not.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

Feel Chris Green is in this category, white ball specialist who knows where his career is at. Will hit the T20 circuit full time soon imho

Chris Green has been on the circuit for acwhile

 

[Lunchtime]

A Steve Waugh type gets you the extra 60 to 80 runs you need on that sort of garbage pitch.

No Steve Waugh types in the Australian team.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Short is at least smart enough to know what he’s good at and doesn’t get his ambitions and abilities confused when it comes to red ball cricket. He simply doesn’t have a good enough red ball technique. Although after watching the last two days, maybe nobody does.

I don't disagree with this sentiment but I'm more making the point it's impossible to know in an alternate universe where T20 cricket didn't exist what his not good enough red ball technique would look like if he'd spent his last 5-7 years focussed on improving his red ball game - training with a red ball in the off-season or playing red ball cricket in England over the winter rather than playing in Major League Cricket, etc.

It's not about Short specifically or his technique specifically but what he represents about the depth in red ball talent pool and the incentives and talent development of a wider playing pool generally. He's played 58 FC games over a 10 year period, but despite those 58 games, many of them played at the time before T20 cricket took up and he might have thought of himself as a future Test cricketer. But instead, those 58 games, most of them Shield games, could have gone to someone else over the last 10 years for someone who would have added to our potential Test selection batting depth come the 25/26 season. He's simply not an option now because he wasn't trying to be an option for this series, for the last 5 years, despite those 58 games.

 

[norway blue]

Along with Root, Stokes, Brook and Archer, Bethell was one player pre series i thought had the ability/ X factor to sway the series. Turns out that wasn't the case, but we did see him emerge today on the big stage to help England get a famous win.

Selectors were right to stick with with Pope, but now Bethell is back in the side he will be hard to dislodge

People dismiss him for a lack of technique but reckon his defence seems pretty solid, and among more wreckless T20 shots we saw some majestic strokeplay.

Hate England but some reason love Bethell and the way he goes about it.

Reasonable assessment mate. Sydney will be interesting no doubt

 

[norway blue]

Is this the same bigfooty cricket board which used to be full of whingers about the Aussie pitches being roads?

And now it is full of people whinging that the pitch had too much spice?

What a bunch of negative nancy sooks and complainers.

I'm more and more convinced the proportion of actual cricket fans on this board is <20%.

The rest are just here to find something to complain about because they've got nothing else going on in their lives.

This would tie in with how many people are complaining that now they have to find something else to do tomorrow.

Do these folks not go outside or have any social connections? Sad state of affairs.

The paddy Justin fight ..

 

[Westend]

Just had a few hours to process the end of that test...watched a few things

now reflecting and in all Honestly and as a passionate cricket lover...that test match was pathetic it was a shit show..

a disgrace of a pitch and just shit cricket by both teams who both were spooked by conditions ..its just shit for test cricket

The only enjoyment I enjoyed in that match was Jhye coming back to test cricket ..a 4 year wait and taking a wicket and getting out Root....thats it

it was pathetic for test cricket

 

[badgrill]

For all the criticism of their batting - I don't think we bat better - but our bowling is a mile above theirs.

And generally field better, too

 

[HitTheNailOnTheHead]

Looks like Starc won't play the Sydney test either. So possibly Green and Starc out for Webster and possibly Doggett or maybe Abbott. Doesn't sound like a spinner will play in Sydney....

Where did you hear that?

 

[revo333]

Green needs a spell. I have been willing to defend him but no more.

Many times when I played cricket I saw players drop 2-3 batting spots to try and find form and it never works.

Put him out of his misery and hopefully he is in good form by the time we need him again.

 

[revo333]

It's funny because I've been on BigFooty long enough that I remember people melting because Ed Cowan would find a way to get himself out with a score of 28 off 75 balls or whatever, yet that's an innings that would have been immensely valueable for the Aussies in either innings here.

People melted over Marnus for doing the same thing and then melt again when he comes out playing his shots and nicks off for 12 off 20 balls.

 

[revo333]

Is this the same bigfooty cricket board which used to be full of whingers about the Aussie pitches being roads?

And now it is full of people whinging that the pitch had too much spice?

Media and commentators as well.

 

[icyflakes]

Many times when I played cricket I saw players drop 2-3 batting spots to try and find form and it never works.

Put him out of his misery and hopefully he is in good form by the time we need him again.

I'm all for dropping him, but we haven't moved him down his batting spot (if thats what your comment meant), so much as we put him back to where he was originally after ****ing him around moving him up the order.

 

[western royboy]

I don't disagree with this sentiment but I'm more making the point it's impossible to know in an alternate universe where T20 cricket didn't exist what his not good enough red ball technique would look like if he'd spent his last 5-7 years focussed on improving his red ball game - training with a red ball in the off-season or playing red ball cricket in England over the winter rather than playing in Major League Cricket, etc.

It's not about Short specifically or his technique specifically but what he represents about the depth in red ball talent pool and the incentives and talent development of a wider playing pool generally. He's played 58 FC games over a 10 year period, but despite those 58 games, many of them played at the time before T20 cricket took up and he might have thought of himself as a future Test cricketer. But instead, those 58 games, most of them Shield games, could have gone to someone else over the last 10 years for someone who would have added to our potential Test selection batting depth come the 25/26 season. He's simply not an option now because he wasn't trying to be an option for this series, for the last 5 years, despite those 58 games.

Short essentially got picked out by Greg Chappell as a kid in a junior rep game and got “the next big thing” sticker put on him as did another wunderkind of the Talent Pathway in Jake Fraser-McGurk. Do you see where I am heading with this? For quite some time, in my view the focus has been on the wrong things from a batting point of view (or maybe the right things) but whatever your view, the current outlook is NOT going to produce old school Test Batsmen. Why try and specialise and be one of 5 or 6, when you can tour the world and get paid very well if you’ve got a good eye and can give the ball a ride, because there’s a different tournament virtually every week if that’s your skill set.

 

[icyflakes]

Short essentially got picked out by Greg Chappell as a kid in a junior rep game and got “the next big thing” sticker put on him as did another wunderkind of the Talent Pathway in Jake Fraser-McGurk. Do you see where I am heading with this? For quite some time, in my view the focus has been on the wrong things from a batting point of view (or maybe the right things) but whatever your view, the current outlook is NOT going to produce old school Test Batsmen. Why try and specialise and be one of 5 or 6, when you can tour the world and get paid very well if you’ve got a good eye and can give the ball a ride, because there’s a different tournament virtually every week if that’s your skill set.

I wonder if the challenge as a junior scout is that they are going to be absolute tonkers, because they're so far ahead of the rest of the kids.

That was fine 15 years ago, you could just take the tonkers and teach them proper defense. Now those kids are in the t20 generation, where you can make a shitton of dirty money (i dont blame them) being grade cricketer level and you don't have to learn how to be a good batter. Why would you bother?

I'm younger than quite a few of the Aussie test squad, and my junior cricket coaches would be sickened by the shit that happened this test.

CA needs to up the Test contract pay, play more test cricket (like England) and create better test pathways instead of just general pathways to lose players to franchise slop. I guarantee they won't use a single dollar from the fake coffer crisis, where they sell the BBL, to put into Test cricket pathways. And in 10 years CA will be shocked that our test team is dogshit while MI Melbourne are in the finals of the BBL.

 

[Interceptor]

An awful batting performance by Australia today, decent bowling by England, but still.
Khawaja and Green in particular were shite.
WTF was Smith thinking at the end, getting himself off strike to expose the no.11?
He really isn't too bright is he?

Then England come in and throw the bat, arsing their way to the win.
They had to win one eventually, but in 2 days, FFS.

 

[Topkent]

Good win for the Poms against Australia A

They were missing their best 2 bowlers as well, not really any excuse

 

[Topkent]

I wonder if the challenge as a junior scout is that they are going to be absolute tonkers, because they're so far ahead of the rest of the kids.

That was fine 15 years ago, you could just take the tonkers and teach them proper defense. Now those kids are in the t20 generation, where you can make a shitton of dirty money (i dont blame them) being grade cricketer level and you don't have to learn how to be a good batter. Why would you bother?

I'm younger than quite a few of the Aussie test squad, and my junior cricket coaches would be sickened by the shit that happened this test.

CA needs to up the Test contract pay, play more test cricket (like England) and create better test pathways instead of just general pathways to lose players to franchise slop. I guarantee they won't use a single dollar from the fake coffer crisis, where they sell the BBL, to put into Test cricket pathways. And in 10 years CA will be shocked that our test team is dogshit while MI Melbourne are in the finals of the BBL.

The issue is, we don't even need a half decent test side for the majority of touring sides or tours. Only India and occasionally SA trouble us at home eve when we suck. And we only do a tough your every couple of years. We can do **** all and still sit in the top 3 because test cricket is dead in the majority of the world.

 

[PP34]

For those of us who grew up watching test cricket (in my case from as early as the 70s) to see what we've seen in the last couple of days is really dispiriting. Having watched two 2 days tests this series makes it doubly so.

If you're younger than me and have been fed a diet of express cricket, good luck to you. I can understand you guffawing at has-beens like me. But personally, I hate that a game can be done in two days. I hate the lack of application. The wild swinging of the bat. The dancing up the pitch from ball one.

I know there are many reasons for test cricket's decline. But I will never forgive people like Brendan McCullum who see themselves as the saviours of test cricket, and who will see today as some kind of victory. When in fact, I believe he is killing the game that I love so much.

Maybe the really young kids love it but even most people I know in their 20s can’t stand tests being done this quick.

I don’t think you can really blame McCullum. The reality is that the introduction of T20 cricket fundamentally has changed cricket similar to when World Series cricket came along. There’s plenty of talented cricketers growing up now with minimal cricket smarts for the test level because T20 is where the money is and they develop their game for that. Test batting is a secondary thought.

 

[Topkent]

Maybe the really young kids love it but even most people I know in their 20s can’t stand tests being done this quick.

I don’t think you can really blame McCullum. The reality is that the introduction of T20 cricket fundamentally has changed cricket similar to when World Series cricket came along. There’s plenty of talented cricketers growing up now with minimal cricket smarts for the test level because T20 is where the money is and they develop their game for that. Test batting is a secondary thought.

That's because a stack of people and administrators still have their heads in the sand about the reality of test cricket. There's India, Aus and England that'll always have test cricket. SA produce some decent teams and some crap ones, NZ who no one in the country gives a shit about cricket so they're never gonna be a good team consistently and then what?
Guys from Sri Lanka, WI, Bangladesh and the rest there's 0 incentive to become a good test cricketer. No one watches them play at home and they'll never achieve anything again. Of course they're gonna go where the money is for themselves.

Even one day cricket has basically died as well. Teams play completely irrelevant and pointless series with 0 worth up until a world cup.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

It's not the same.

If they win the next one people will only look at the scorecard "oh 3-2, close series" when it hasn't been close

To be fair it has been close. Bar some poor catching and short bursts of madness with the bat they would be winning it. Starc with the ball and head the bat are wallpapering over all our cracks elsewhere.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Same old Sydney, always raining.

Change the fixtures.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Feel Chris Green is in this category, white ball specialist who knows where his career is at. Will hit the T20 circuit full time soon imho

Correct like David and others have.

 

[WeightOfTheWorld]

To be fair it has been close. Bar some poor catching and short bursts of madness with the bat they would be winning it. Starc with the ball and head the bat are wallpapering over all our cracks elsewhere.

Could have, should have.

We won easily in Brisbane, and easily in Adelaide - please, England were never going to chase down a record target despite the melts that took place on this board as the chase progressed. Australia have had bursts of madness as well - 6/38 in Adelaide for example.

Not to mention the injuries with the bowling attack. When the series has been alive, it has largely been one sided traffic.

We have been the superior fielding side and the superior cricketing side with our available resources - a 3-2 series score line would be unjust in my view.