Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[Robroy22]

I didn't say that Collingwood would fall off a cliff once.

My response wasn't that you said it Bonce, I liked your response because it at least gives us a 50:50 chance in '26 which is way more than the past 50 odd pages have given us. And we've been copping this doom and gloom since 2021 every year the same rubbish. Thing is, since Fly came back to the club, we have enjoyed a remarkable run of fun and positivity in our footy club. And yet all the scribes (from Caro, to Damo, SEN and Kaneo) not to mention some of the regular posters on BF who really try to bait Collingwood people, they've all had us "falling off said cliff" for years....and yet we haven't.

So whilst we continue to find a way, I think most Collingwood folk find it a little disrespectful to lump us with clubs that haven't featured where we have for many years....simply because they hope and wish that we fail.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

You're having a mare bud. Probably stay out of this one.

You tried to conflate B & F results with Brownlow odds or something... what was your point exactly?

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Simple answer if the ball got kicked to Bont and Daicos one on one 10 times who gets it?

 

[bzparkes]

You tried to conflate B & F results with Brownlow odds or something... what was your point exactly?

I didn't say any of that so, like I said, stay out of it because you're having a complete mare.

Or come back when you've actually read the prior conversation.

Your choice.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

So your own club doesn't even think he's the best player for Collingwood yet somehow the bookies' opinion means more?

And you have the audacity to call my post 'dumb'?

Gee whiz.

Our voting for our B&F is a bit of a participation medal. If you play every game and perform your role well your a chance. There has been talk for years about changing it (not just Mcrae this year). DeGoey never gets close because he is always injured for a few games.

 

[Fadge]

How about we go "Better than Nic" does that do it for you???

Sure.

But I find it interesting that noone was nominating Rowell as 'better than Nic' BEFORE the 2025 Brownlow count, and by virtue of a few surprise votes to relegate Nick into second place, he's suddenly better than him.

What does that then say about Daicos, who averages 1.21 Brownlow votes per game across his entire career, about 20% more than any other player in the history of the game, and 30% more than any other current player?

I mean, do Brownlow votes count, or not?

 

[Robertio]

I didn't say that Collingwood would fall off a cliff once.

That was me mate I've said it enough for both of us.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Brian Harris (Lake) whatever it prefers... is hardly a scrubber like Bobby Hill. Come on brother...

Hodge, Shagger, etc, I just reckon they get it right more than the Brownlow. How Carey never won one is just scandalous.

Actually I agree (although scrubber is not right, Hill is a generally above average/good player) but when Lake won it he was 31 years old (still played an out standing game). It had been 3 to 4 years since he was AA.
Don't get me wrong plenty of stars have won it as well. But overall the brownlow is a slightly better indication of a champion compared to the Norm Smith. Eg your statement of the Norm smith being worth 2/3 Brownlows was not accurate imo.

 

[Robertio]

Sure.

But I find it interesting that noone was nominating Rowell as 'better than Nic' BEFORE the 2025 Brownlow count, and by virtue of a few surprise votes to relegate Nick into second place, he's suddenly better than him.

What does that then say about Daicos, who averages 1.21 Brownlow votes per game across his entire career, about 20% more than any other player in the history of the game, and 3-% more than any other current player?

I mean, do Brownlow votes count, or not?

Rowell and Ashcroft have gone past Daicos and possibly Anderson as well.

 

[bzparkes]

Our voting for our B&F is a bit of a participation medal. If you play every game and perform your role well your a chance. There has been talk for years about changing it (not just Mcrae this year). DeGoey never gets close because he is always injured for a few games.

Sure, I understand that, as WCE does the same.

Having said that, Darcy Cameron played the same amount of games as Nick did this year.

Does anyone honestly believe the coaches(or anyone) think Cameron is better than Nick? Of course not.

I'm merely raising this because the other posters like to throw around the word 'undisputed' when clearly there is a lot of dispute.

 

[Robertio]

My response wasn't that you said it Bonce, I liked your response because it at least gives us a 50:50 chance in '26 which is way more than the past 50 odd pages have given us. And we've been copping this doom and gloom since 2021 every year the same rubbish. Thing is, since Fly came back to the club, we have enjoyed a remarkable run of fun and positivity in our footy club. And yet all the scribes (from Caro, to Damo, SEN and Kaneo) not to mention some of the regular posters on BF who really try to bait Collingwood people, they've all had us "falling off said cliff" for years....and yet we haven't.

So whilst we continue to find a way, I think most Collingwood folk find it a little disrespectful to lump us with clubs that haven't featured where we have for many years....simply because they hope and wish that we fail.

That's football mate, don't take it to heart just keep supporting your team.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Sure.

But I find it interesting that noone was nominating Rowell as 'better than Nic' BEFORE the 2025 Brownlow count, and by virtue of a few surprise votes to relegate Nick into second place, he's suddenly better than him.

What does that then say about Daicos, who averages 1.21 Brownlow votes per game across his entire career, about 20% more than any other player in the history of the game, and 3-% more than any other current player?

I mean, do Brownlow votes count, or not?

To be fair Anderson is better than both.

 

[bzparkes]

Sure.

But I find it interesting that noone was nominating Rowell as 'better than Nic' BEFORE the 2025 Brownlow count, and by virtue of a few surprise votes to relegate Nick into second place, he's suddenly better than him.

What does that then say about Daicos, who averages 1.21 Brownlow votes per game across his entire career, about 20% more than any other player in the history of the game, and 3-% more than any other current player?

I mean, do Brownlow votes count, or not?

You should look at Will Schofield's research on the past 16 Brownlow medal winners.

They all rated in the top 5 for contested possessions, clearances and tackles.

Guess who out of Daicos and Rowell who rated in the top 5 of all 3 of those stats and who didn't?

Clearly this is what Umpires tend to pay attention to the most because these stats happen most around stoppages.

 

[Chip Scab1]

Actually I agree (although scrubber is not right, Hill is a generally above average/good player) but when Lake won it he was 31 years old (still played an out standing game). It had been 3 to 4 years since he was AA.
Don't get me wrong plenty of stars have won it as well. But overall the brownlow is a slightly better indication of a champion compared to the Norm Smith. Eg your statement of the Norm smith being worth 2/3 Brownlows was not accurate imo.

We finally found something we disagree on, I just feel it's a team-sport, being the best player in the biggest game when if you win, you usually get a premiership medallion too, means a bit more, maybe I'm way off. Maybe for someone like Daicos the Brownlow is more important to him than a Premiership Medal.

But I doubt it being a pies fan and watching YouTube to see your old man win one.

 

[Robroy22]

That's football mate, don't take it to heart just keep supporting your team.

Nah, that's footy in the internet era "mate"
I've done my 76 years and lived through quite a few lean times for the club/s (VFL, VFA, Local footy) and all, but the one thing that's changed now is that the blokes that used to try and start stuff...never get dealt with anymore. On here they seem to take great pleasure in instigating angst and laughing about it. Yes I grew up in an age when "if you can't say something nice stay quiet" was the norm, but then again we were taught hard lessons by our women folk (with the backup of their men). Now its quite ok to say "so and so" is a weak and pathetic loser and so is your entire team ... and nothing gets said about it. And that's wrong.

I was in a crowd that saw Greening get kinghit, saw Rose run through Barassi who'd just knocked over a 16 year old kid, I saw Tuddy return to Viccy park and the mayhem that caused and the crowd wars at Princess Park whenever we played the Blues. Smart-mouths were in attendance at all those venues too, but they were always quickly shut down by the people around them. On here, smart mouths just keep going and going and going as if believing the simple weight of their post numbers will eventually bully people into submission.

I don't need to be told to support my team, my link to the Pies is 4 generations old. That is not in question. What is is how much tripe can one team be expected to cop at the hands of 17 others who enjoy making stuff up to incite.

Do WE need to rebuild our list? Obviously....and I believe its been happening and will continue to do so. Will our strategy work? Ask us again in 2030? see where we went.

Is there a perfect list building process to follow? Or do clubs simply need to do what they can to remain relevant and competitive?

There are other clubs in the AFL that must interest some of you!

 

[doppleganger]

When is the last time Collingwood had 4 - 5 less interstate trips than West Coast? Outside of covid era of course.

In 2025 it was actually only 3 extra trips.

WC had 10 trips outside of WA
Coll had 6 trips outside of VIC (plus a final) so 7 in total.

 

[doppleganger]

Dont need to pretend.

Players, coaches and science supports the view.

Science says that a bit of extra travel for an AFL footballer has a negative impact on career longevity?

Love to see the journal article.

But yeah, keep prentending that the views of the professionals actually playing / working in the system and scientific findings that go through peer review are all wrong. And your baised view is correct.

Malthouse also was big on Blockbuster fatigue, it is harder to get up after a big blockbuster against a local rival.

But again, be good for you to provide a scientific article that shows a bit of extra travel has a negative impact on career longevity.

 

[doppleganger]

Collingwood are dangerously close to tipping point because the couple of first rounders they have used don't appear to be any good, or maybe ok role players at best, and the rest of of their draftees are late picks who aren't showing much.

IF a few of our kids don't come on then yes we will again have a hole in the list with 22-26 year players not being ready.

But that can be addressed through list management.

You don't need to go let's be shite for 5-10 years and load up on 17-18 year olds.

 

[bzparkes]

IF a few of our kids don't come on then yes we will again have a hole in the list with 22-26 year players not being ready.

But that can be addressed through list management.

You don't need to go let's be shite for 5-10 years and load up on 17-18 year olds.

"But that can be addressed through list management."

Incredibly vague. If you have a hole, how do you think Pies would address it?

 

[Worm4]

Simple answer if the ball got kicked to Bont and Daicos one on one 10 times who gets it?

Do you want the undisputed choice, ?

I mean, do Brownlow votes count, or not?

Ok, lets count Brownlow votes.
Who has the most over the past 3 years ? If the answer isnt Daicos, then its disputable that he is the best

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Simple answer if the ball got kicked to Bont and Daicos one on one 10 times who gets it?

Daics x 9

Too quick

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Daicos is the best in the business. Brownlows are fos. 2015 priddis was denied 3 votes and didn't even get one where he was b o.g. they helped Fyfe get his brownlow

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Do you want the undisputed choice, ?

Ok, lets count Brownlow votes.
Who has the most over the past 3 years ? If the answer isnt Daicos, then its disputable that he is the best

Agreed Wormy

 

[Robertio]

Agreed Wormy

View attachment 2502568

How many Brownlows has he collected?

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

How many Brownlows has he collected?

3. The " moral " brownlows. As good as the real thing. Like I.o.u's.