The "Rebuild Complete?" thread.

[theGav56]

i'm still interested to see why you disputed my example of St Kilda being a side full of top 10's not winning one. You conveniently changed the goal posts in your response, oddly enough in a way that only supports what I am saying.

When was St Kilda's last premiership, given it was the worst possible example?

It is a poor example because in any drawn game there a massive number of possible events that could have change the result to a win or a loss, and the number of top 10 draft picks would not be one of them. And your posting is off topic as the discussion is about rebuilding, not premierships. St Kilda have by definition of contesting a GF, and underlined by the drawn game, succesfully built a list.

 

[chinggis77]

There's no doubt that a gun KPP forward or ruckman can give you the edge. It doesn't have to be the only edge though.

Geelong's edge over the competition was their superior midfield which made ordinary forwards into decent ones.

We are developing a strong midfield/rebounding backline - arguably one that is better placed than most to deal with zones/rolling zones/forward presses - given the amount of strong/fast runners with penetrating kicks and good evasive skills we have (Hill, Suban, Morabito, Duffield, Mzungu, Hayden).

We have a massive chance with Sandi and Pav to give the premiership a crack as they alone are matchwinners when combined with the rest of our team make us a real threat.

As has been said on here the challenge comes when they (and Lukey Mac) retire. Is our midfield/rebounding defence enough to give us an edge over the competition? That depends on just how good Hill, Fyfe, Palmer, Barlow, Mora become and whether guys like Clarke, Sibosado, Faulks, Houghton, Crichton come on.

I am a big wrap for Clarke. I saw a lot of very positive signs that he may become a Tippett type ruckman/forward. Sibosado also seems to have clued onto what is required to become an AFL player - he looks especially lean in the training sessions this week.

The rebuild is never complete though. We still need to move players on every year and top up with new talent. Who knows we may end up with Darling who solves our Pav succession worries.

 

[Deep_Purple]

I think we have good strength with our KPP's but the problem will come in 3-4 years. Clarke should be able to take over from Sandi, but we may need to draft another good young ruckman over the next 2 years. Filling the gap left by our other older big men - Pav, Mcpharlin, Grover, McPhee should be a priority over the next few years, and is quite do-able.

In 4 years when our 1st and 2nd year players have matured and have experience and are the core of group, they will pick up what is lacking from loosing Pav and Sandi.

 

[rotto]

With free agency coming in 2012, we can top up with average talls who can fill a hole.

 

[chinggis77]

I think we have good strength with our KPP's but the problem will come in 3-4 years. Clarke should be able to take over from Sandi, but we may need to draft another good young ruckman over the next 2 years. Filling the gap left by our other older big men - Pav, Mcpharlin, Grover, McPhee should be a priority over the next few years, and is quite do-able.

In 4 years when our 1st and 2nd year players have matured and have experience and are the core of group, they will pick up what is lacking from loosing Pav and Sandi.

We already have that sewn up. We have this guy ready to be drafted in a few years time:

Our NSW Scholarship holder - Craig Moller, 205cm, 14 turning 15 years old. MVP for NSW in the U16 champs this year. Invited to join the AIS-AFL academy. He has been playing for GWS in the TAC also - despite being only 14!

Their coach had this to say after one recent outing:

McConnell highlighted U16 ruckman Craig Moller as a standout. “Craig put in a fabulous effort in the ruck and across the ground, his opponent was recently granted an AIS scholarship, but Craig was dominant and controlling in the ruck. “Its really promising for a player of his age and stature to be playing so well, as taller boys usually take longer to develop.”

At the very worst - Sheeds will be desperate for him and will trade us their No 1 pick for him.

 

[Deep_Purple]

Another important thing in the next 2 years will be how Sibosado, Houghton, and Shepheard go. Sibo is a biggie for me, I would love to see him playing in purple next year, if he fulfils his potential he could go a long way to filling the gap left by McPharlin and Pav.

 

[Clay Davis]

We already have that sewn up. We have this guy ready to be drafted in a few years time:

Our NSW Scholarship holder - Craig Moller, 205cm, 14 turning 15 years old. MVP for NSW in the U16 champs this year. Invited to join the AIS-AFL academy. He has been playing for GWS in the TAC also - despite being only 14!

Their coach had this to say after one recent outing:



At the very worst - Sheeds will be desperate for him and will trade us their No 1 pick for him.

Way too far out to make any assessment of that kind.

A surer bet is Griffin becoming a top 5 ruckman.

 

[Nickos66]

I'm still sceptical about the AFL's potential meddling to thwart us from snagging this kid if his stocks keep rising..

 

[chinggis77]

Can't see how they could take him off us - at least without adequate compensation. Its not as if Western Sydney have enough concessions as it is anyway.

Going to be interesting to see how he goes next season as he will probably get a whole season in the GWS TAC team. Given how he improved and finished off - he could well become a dominant ruckman there.

Maybe we should also look at Joseph Lo Buluk under an international scholarship. Just 15 years old, 201 cm. Was one of the best players for the World 21 in this years U16 champs. Nothing to be sneezed at because the World 21 almost knocked off Queensland and a few other teams. He's from Sudan but living in WA.

Didn't someone on here mention that we were on the verge of signing an African to an international scholarship?

 

[Alfonz]

Can't see how they'd take him off us? Easy, the AFL would just change the rules and say "sorry, bad luck".

 

[Nickos66]

Yep, that's what is likely to happen.

 

[TheLastCall]

I think current scholarship holders are safe, we've invested too much into them, but we won't be able to get any more from NSW, I think there is a system being set up so they will either be a Sydney or GWSG scholarship holder. Too many teams will loose out if they cut the scholarships.

 

[Slattery_20]

Our NSW Scholarship holder - Craig Moller, 205cm, 14 turning 15 years old. MVP for NSW in the U16 champs this year. Invited to join the AIS-AFL academy. He has been playing for GWS in the TAC also - despite being only 14!

According to what I could find he was 14yo in an article July last year, would suggest he's aged at the normal rate since.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17690204
This says sep 94, so he'd be 16.

 

[Al Quaeda]

Can't see how they'd take him off us? Easy, the AFL would just change the rules and say "sorry, bad luck".

Of course, we, and every other club with a stake in this process, would simply walk away and say too bad, so sad.

FFS.

If the AFL changes the rules mid-term, which I believe to be highly unlikely, then I am damn sure that every club affected will be after a pound of flesh or more.

 

[Nickos66]

Of course, we, and every other club with a stake in this process, would simply walk away and say too bad, so sad.

FFS.

If the AFL changes the rules mid-term, which I believe to be highly unlikely, then I am damn sure that every club affected will be after a pound of flesh or more.

Nobody's saying the teams will just accept it..

But it'll happen IMO.

 

[theGav56]

I thought as Scholarship holders it means they are linked to the team a little bit like F/S but wit the bidding. That is they can choose to join us if we want the, or they can go into the Draft. And that is how GWS can get him.

 

[Al Quaeda]

Nobody's saying the teams will just accept it..

But it'll happen IMO.

Wouldn't you think that if they are going to shaft every other club, with the inception of the GWS United States Giants, they would have when they announced the draft and poaching rules that they have already been granted?

Every club is being royally bent over with the expansion. A snide, backhanded changing of the rules would cause a bloody uproar. Ney. A friggen riot by the rest of the clubs.

Methinks that that some of us should stop thinking that clubs are at the mercy of the AFL on contractual obligations and start believing in the litigation process that the AFL would open themselves up to if they start changing the major rules for no good reason.

 

[hedgehog]

Nobody's saying the teams will just accept it..

But it'll happen IMO.

FWIW, this has been discussed here.

 

[Clay Davis]

AFL chopped and changed the rules with Gold Coast's entry - nothing to say they won't do the same here.

Methinks that that some of us should stop thinking that clubs are at the mercy of the AFL on contractual obligations and start believing in the litigation process that the AFL would open themselves up to if they start changing the major rules for no good reason.

There would be no litigation.

 

[Al Quaeda]

AFL chopped and changed the rules with Gold Coast's entry - nothing to say they won't do the same here.



There would be no litigation.

And every club and their legal team is watching this closely, very closely.

You cannot categorically say that there would be no litigation, just as I cannot say that there will be.

But the odds are that the more the rules are changed ad hoc, the more that the AFL opens it self up to potential action if these changes are seen as unlawful.

If changes are made that are believed to be contrary to even the spirit of an agreement, then I will put my house on a legal challenge of some sort.

 

[Clay Davis]

And every club and their legal team is watching this closely, very closely.

You cannot categorically say that there would be no litigation, just as I cannot say that there will be.

But the odds are that the more the rules are changed ad hoc, the more that the AFL opens it self up to potential action if these changes are seen as unlawful.

If changes are made that are believed to be contrary to even the spirit of an agreement, then I will put my house on a legal challenge of some sort.

You're just making stuff up with what you've written in bold.

The entire relationship of the AFL with the clubs and players is absurdly cosy. If the AFL changes the rules, there'd be the accompanying whinging, but nothing will be done. So long as the AFL remains the saviour of last resort for the scrubber clubs and any others that fall into a hole, the majority of clubs will acquiesce to their demands.

If any part of the relationship breaks down via the a court challenge it would destroy the tightly woven agreements between all parties, and you'd all of sudden find AFLPA demand open free agency.

 

[theGav56]

I don't know what the "contract" that he signed with us as a 15 year old for the scholarship would hold, but I doubt it could bind him to us as he was a minor???

 

[Al Quaeda]

You're just making stuff up with what you've written in bold.

The entire relationship of the AFL with the clubs and players is absurdly cosy. If the AFL changes the rules, there'd be the accompanying whinging, but nothing will be done. So long as the AFL remains the saviour of last resort for the scrubber clubs and any others that fall into a hole, the majority of clubs will acquiesce to their demands.

If any part of the relationship breaks down via the a court challenge it would destroy the tightly woven agreements between all parties, and you'd all of sudden find AFLPA demand open free agency.

And, of course, everything thing that you say is gospel according to Andrew and Co??

This is an opinion board,I am freely expressing mine. If I am wrong, then, no doubt, you will drag them up in a context that suits your agenda in a year or two.

Your posts would be so much more palatable if they didn't have the sanctimonious prick label attached to them.

And what is this free agency that you talk of?? Last that I heard, it was a done deal.

 

[Clay Davis]

And, of course, everything thing that you say is gospel according to Andrew and Co??

This is an opinion board,I am freely expressing mine. If I am wrong, then, no doubt, you will drag them up in a context that suits your agenda in a year or two.

Your posts would be so much more palatable if they didn't have the sanctimonious prick label attached to them.

And what is this free agency that you talk of?? Last that I heard, it was a done deal.

Free agency only kicks in after 8 seasons service. What I am talking about is players being able to choose their club at any time when they're out of contract.

The entire draft system could be legally challenged, by any of the parties (clubs, players). They don't because it is a cosy arrangement.

No club will take the AFL to court over a scholarship player. The AFL will offer some measly concessions and we'll happily take it. That's how the system works.

 

[Al Quaeda]

Free agency only kicks in after 8 seasons service. What I am talking about is players being able to choose their club at any time when they're out of contract.

The entire draft system could be legally challenged, by any of the parties (clubs, players). They don't because it is a cosy arrangement.

No club will take the AFL to court over a scholarship player. The AFL will offer some measly concessions and we'll happily take it. That's how the system works.

So nothing ever changes, ever.

Okay then.