Who will finish higher out of Hawks, Saints and Dees?

Who will finish higher at the end of 2017 season ?

  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 29 40.8%

  • St.Kilda

    Votes: 27 38.0%

  • Melbourne

    Votes: 15 21.1%
  • Total voters
    71
  • Poll closed .

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HODGEYROAD said:
Hawks will finish 4th-6th. Can't see the saints or Dees doing any better than that.
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Would love to finish top 4 again but I'm not so sure.

We finished last season winning just 2 of our last 6 games. Those wins were against a cooked North and a 1 point escape against lowly Collingwood who had nothing to play for. We also won 5 games by under a goal which whilst showing our class under pressure, also highlights our vulnerability and emphasises that our win loss ratio was a little flattering last season. Our midfield began to struggle and we have since lost our best ruck and out two best mids. Hawthorn supporters are bullish about our youngsters but so is every club and ours have shown no more than anybody elses.

I think a lot depends on the fitness of Roughead, O'Meara (and stangely, Hodge). Roughead is a quality, versatile big man who really straightens us up (we were indirect and kicking to smalls last year), is good for match ups and can impact the middle. O'Meara was a classy mid when fit and we will need some polish to do well in there as it is now an area of definciency. As for Hodge, his career has been a mix of mostly brilliant seasons and a few below par seasons, with a perfect correlation to interrupted pre-seasons (i.e. every great year he has had he enjoyed a clear run and every interrupted pre season he has had his season has not been to the same standard). Again, people are declaring him finished but a clear pre-season may see him return rejuvenated as has happened so many times now (remember everyone saying he was done after 2012?).

Clarko I'm sure will get the best out of us while we are in our quick rebuild mode and is everything to go right (especially on the injury front) top 4 is a possibility again but I think the more realistic expectation is a little lower than that.
 

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Guardian Hawk said:
Would love to finish top 4 again but I'm not so sure.

We finished last season winning just 2 of our last 6 games. Those wins were against a cooked North and a 1 point escape against lowly Collingwood who had nothing to play for. We also won 5 games by under a goal which whilst showing our class under pressure, also highlights our vulnerability and emphasises that our win loss ratio was a little flattering last season. Our midfield began to struggle and we have since lost our best ruck and out two best mids. Hawthorn supporters are bullish about our youngsters but so is every club and ours have shown no more than anybody elses.

I think a lot depends on the fitness of Roughead, O'Meara (and stangely, Hodge). Roughead is a quality, versatile big man who really straightens us up (we were indirect and kicking to smalls last year), is good for match ups and can impact the middle. O'Meara was a classy mid when fit and we will need some polish to do well in there as it is now an area of definciency. As for Hodge, his career has been a mix of mostly brilliant seasons and a few below par seasons, with a perfect correlation to interrupted pre-seasons (i.e. every great year he has had he enjoyed a clear run and every interrupted pre season he has had his season has not been to the same standard). Again, people are declaring him finished but a clear pre-season may see him return rejuvenated as has happened so many times now (remember everyone saying he was done after 2012?).

Clarko I'm sure will get the best out of us while we are in our quick rebuild mode and is everything to go right (especially on the injury front) top 4 is a possibility again but I think the more realistic expectation is a little lower than that.
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Hawthorn had numerous players limping towards finals. Birchall, Gibson, Gunston to name just a few.

Saying Hawthorn won 2 of its last 6 games sounds horrible, but the fact is that Isaac Smith only has to kick a little straighter and Hawthorn are playing off in a prelim.

It's highly debatable that the list hasn't improved over the last 3 months, with the return of Roughead and the recruitment of Mitchell, JOM and Vickery.
 
Good poll. I would throw in Essendon and suggest all four could finish anywhere from 6th to 10th.

I think Melbourne is just about the best placed list, but expectation and Melbourne haven't been a match made in heaven for a long time.
 
Saints and Dees very unpredictable. Both could seriously surge this year. Hard one to call. Dees have a better draw. Saints have 3rd hardest draw but ton of matches at Etihad early. If it's tight run to the finals might come down to winner of their matches. Hawks may find themselves on the wrong side of the 8.
 
ullrsgrim said:
Saints and Dees very unpredictable. Both could seriously surge this year. Hard one to call. Dees have a better draw. Saints have 3rd hardest draw but ton of matches at Etihad early. If it's tight run to the finals might come down to winner of their matches. Hawks may find themselves on the wrong side of the 8.
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Hawthorn have the best forward line in the competition, very unlikely to miss the 8 if it remains healthy.
 
ullrsgrim said:
Saints and Dees very unpredictable. Both could seriously surge this year. Hard one to call. Dees have a better draw. Saints have 3rd hardest draw but ton of matches at Etihad early. If it's tight run to the finals might come down to winner of their matches. Hawks may find themselves on the wrong side of the 8.
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The whole "3rd hardest draw" thing is a joke. It doesn't account for off season additions or team development.
 
Fyfe played the first 4 and a half games and they lost all of those 5 games. Sandi played in the rounds 2 and 3 losses as well as Fyfe, so while I'm sure their injuries played a key part in their overall results, they clearly had other issues.

That's not the point though. The point is that any team can have a much better or worse year than the year before and really bad years are most likely due to bad injuries anyway. With teams with poor or untested depth probably the most vulnerable to those injuries.
 
OnceKicked50 said:
Good poll. I would throw in Essendon and suggest all four could finish anywhere from 6th to 10th.

I think Melbourne is just about the best placed list, but expectation and Melbourne haven't been a match made in heaven for a long time.
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don't think there have ben many expectations on Melbourne over the last 10 years
 

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I like Melbourne this year.
Gawn, Viney, Petracca/Tyson, Lewis, Brayshaw, Vince & Jones is one of the best centre lines in the competition.
They are solid defensively as both McDonald's are now their two best KPD's while Garland and Frost are handy depth.

They may need one more gun forward. Watts has finally turned the corner to form a very solid partnership with Hogan but Dawes is a dead set dud and Pederson is a journeyman at best.
 
Bobby_ said:
I like Melbourne this year.
Gawn, Viney, Petracca/Tyson, Lewis, Brayshaw, Vince & Jones is one of the best centre lines in the competition.
They are solid defensively as both McDonald's are now their two best KPD's while Garland and Frost are handy depth.

They may need one more gun forward. Watts has finally turned the corner to form a very solid partnership with Hogan but Dawes is a dead set dud and Pederson is a journeyman at best.
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Good analagy, Dawes has been delisted
 
Hawthorn would be the safe option as Melbourne and St Kilda havn't proved they can make finals with their current list
 
12Chill said:
Neither have Hawthorn, considering your current list is different to the one that made finals.
Click to expand...
Out: S.Mitchell J. Lewis B. Hill
In: J. Roughead J. O'Meara T. Mitchell T. Vickery

Just as good ins as outs, might take a while to get into it, but you can't tell me those ins are a lot worse than those outs
 
jimsim said:
Out: S.Mitchell J. Lewis B. Hill
In: J. Roughead J. O'Meara T. Mitchell T. Vickery

Just as good ins as outs, might take a while to get into it, but you can't tell me those ins are a lot worse than those outs
Click to expand...
Roughead is a massive in. It will be interesting to see how Omeara goes after not playing for 2 years and T Mitchell all of a sudden being the no 1 midfielder instead of the no 5. Vickery is still poo

The ins will not be as good as the outs in 2017, 2018-19 and beyond yes.
 
jimsim said:
Out: S.Mitchell J. Lewis B. Hill
In: J. Roughead J. O'Meara T. Mitchell T. Vickery

Just as good ins as outs, might take a while to get into it, but you can't tell me those ins are a lot worse than those outs
Click to expand...

Roughead's a great addition, I hope he's back to playing a high level sooner rather than later. Vickery fills a ruck/fwd hole but is, as we know, nothing special.

Mitchell and Lewis were top 2 in your best and fairest and your best two contested ball winners, something which Hawthorn were already below average for. Tom Mitchell helps to replace them but was the 4th mid at Sydney behind JPK, Hanners and Parker, we'll see how he goes as the number one mid (not that I'm predicting a huge drop in production at all- but it's important to note nonetheless).

JOM has barely played in 2 years and considering the history of those who've had that injury- he's no guarantee to get to the level that he once looked like making, his career as a whole is no certainty if he gets another setback. I hope he gets back to it as JOM in full flight will be great for the game, but the jury's out.

Your midfield is significantly weakened if JOM gets injured again, you don't have a lot of depth. Hodge, Gibson and Burgoyne will slow down at some stage too.

Hawthorn have just as much to prove regarding their ability to make the 8 with their current list as St Kilda and Melbourne do, and both these teams would also be able to put together an ins/out list that shows team improvement.
 
12Chill said:
Roughead's a great addition, I hope he's back to playing a high level sooner rather than later. Vickery fills a ruck/fwd hole but is, as we know, nothing special.

Mitchell and Lewis were top 2 in your best and fairest and your best two contested ball winners, something which Hawthorn were already below average for. Tom Mitchell helps to replace them but was the 4th mid at Sydney behind JPK, Hanners and Parker, we'll see how he goes as the number one mid (not that I'm predicting a huge drop in production at all- but it's important to note nonetheless).

JOM has barely played in 2 years and considering the history of those who've had that injury- he's no guarantee to get to the level that he once looked like making, his career as a whole is no certainty if he gets another setback. I hope he gets back to it as JOM in full flight will be great for the game, but the jury's out.

Your midfield is significantly weakened if JOM gets injured again, you don't have a lot of depth. Hodge, Gibson and Burgoyne will slow down at some stage too.

Hawthorn have just as much to prove regarding their ability to make the 8 with their current list as St Kilda and Melbourne do, and both these teams would also be able to put together an ins/out list that shows team improvement.
Click to expand...
Agree fully with what you have said, JLT games don't mean much but JOM played an exceptional half of footy and you could see the difference in the second half when he was rested. Keen to see how the Saints go with an almost full strength team tonight. Saints have the best young list on paper imo but just need to find some consistency as is the same problem for Melbourne. I expect all our teams to finish in similar positions probably in that 4-8 gap.
 
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