Boutique Stadium in Melbourne

[lionbear]

What the hell are you talking about? I just said clubs don't make a loss on match day. They only claim they do by removing the largest revenue item - membership income - from any calculations. Making any claim about losses utterly disingenuous.

If you're not including the amount paid to get in by the vast bulk of spectators, then how can you honestly claim a loss on matchday?

Yeah I have heard Eddie claim Collingwood run at a loss on Anzac Day, doesn't mention it's a members only match pretty much.

 

[miksmif]

First time poster, I had been thinking after last nights success of the women's match that a third stadium in Melb will be on the agenda again... my thoughts are that possibly after 3-5 years with women's Comp growing and having more teams that it'll be moved to be played in winter.. does anyone think that a new stadium seating between 30-40k would be viable for the women's Comp as well as being used for low drawing attendences in the men's Comp? Or would it be more likely that the older suburban grounds such as western Oval & princess park get a refurb?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Who is funding this?

Not the afl, why would they under cut etihad?

Anything from govt will tap out at a portion of the cost.

Afl clubs cant afford to take on the debt burden

Once etihad was sold, this pipedream officially died

 

[miksmif]

Who is funding this?

Not the afl, why would they under cut etihad?

Anything from govt will tap out at a portion of the cost.

Afl clubs cant afford to take on the debt burden

Once etihad was sold, this pipedream officially died

I should've done a bit more reasearch totally forgot the AFL bought etihad... hahaha

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

First time poster, I had been thinking after last nights success of the women's match that a third stadium in Melb will be on the agenda again... my thoughts are that possibly after 3-5 years with women's Comp growing and having more teams that it'll be moved to be played in winter.. does anyone think that a new stadium seating between 30-40k would be viable for the women's Comp as well as being used for low drawing attendences in the men's Comp? Or would it be more likely that the older suburban grounds such as western Oval & princess park get a refurb?

At the risk of repeating myself, free admission last night. People need to settle and wait to see if the womens game actually becomes a financial proposition before investing in real estate.

Oh, and welcome!!!!

 

[Rouel_14]

At the risk of repeating myself, free admission last night. People need to settle and wait to see if the womens game actually becomes a financial proposition before investing in real estate.

Oh, and welcome!!!!

I think in the first few years they would be stupid to change fans entry, if they can pull TV numbers every week like they did last night the money to grow the game doesn't have to come from gate takings, as it pretty much gives 7 another 6-7 prime time Friday night slots per year.


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[CrazyJoeFevola]

I think in the first few years they would be stupid to change fans entry, if they can pull TV numbers every week like they did last night the money to grow the game doesn't have to come from gate takings, as it pretty much gives 7 another 6-7 prime time Friday night slots per year.


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Definitely. At the very least keep it free for anyone under 18

 

[Crawb]

The AFL don't need to pump a whole bunch of money into a new stadium. A small amount into cleaning up Princes Park could work well to create a suitable third stadium in Melbourne yet keep the suburban appeal of the stadium. The 24K capacity is a good fit. Would be big enough for the big AFLW matches and suitable for H&A games between a Vic club V GC/GWS/Freo/Port/Lions.

If you think a game is going to get about 30K it really should be an Etihad game. It'll be Princes Park or nothing after the AFL purchased Etihad.

 

[Pessimistic]

The AFL don't need to pump a whole bunch of money into a new stadium. A small amount into cleaning up Princes Park could work well to create a suitable third stadium in Melbourne yet keep the suburban appeal of the stadium. The 24K capacity is a good fit. Would be big enough for the big AFLW matches and suitable for H&A games between a Vic club V GC/GWS/Freo/Port/Lions.

If you think a game is going to get about 30K it really should be an Etihad game. It'll be Princes Park or nothing after the AFL purchased Etihad.

Even those games are on the up crowd wise. Especially when those teams are going well

 

[Ned_Flanders]

The AFL don't need to pump a whole bunch of money into a new stadium. A small amount into cleaning up Princes Park could work well to create a suitable third stadium in Melbourne yet keep the suburban appeal of the stadium. The 24K capacity is a good fit. Would be big enough for the big AFLW matches and suitable for H&A games between a Vic club V GC/GWS/Freo/Port/Lions.

If you think a game is going to get about 30K it really should be an Etihad game. It'll be Princes Park or nothing after the AFL purchased Etihad.

The last estimate was $50m for getting pp up to spec

 

[Boxhead_31]

The AFL don't need to pump a whole bunch of money into a new stadium. A small amount into cleaning up Princes Park could work well to create a suitable third stadium in Melbourne yet keep the suburban appeal of the stadium. The 24K capacity is a good fit. Would be big enough for the big AFLW matches and suitable for H&A games between a Vic club V GC/GWS/Freo/Port/Lions.

If you think a game is going to get about 30K it really should be an Etihad game. It'll be Princes Park or nothing after the AFL purchased Etihad.

Happen to notice the delays of people getting away from PP on Friday night?

 

[bombersfan4000]

The AFL don't need to pump a whole bunch of money into a new stadium. A small amount into cleaning up Princes Park could work well to create a suitable third stadium in Melbourne yet keep the suburban appeal of the stadium. The 24K capacity is a good fit. Would be big enough for the big AFLW matches and suitable for H&A games between a Vic club V GC/GWS/Freo/Port/Lions.

If you think a game is going to get about 30K it really should be an Etihad game. It'll be Princes Park or nothing after the AFL purchased Etihad.

Carlton killed princess park a bit when they knocked down the stand to build the new training facility building. With the stand kept & a bit of TLC the ground would be perfect to host several women's games & the odd men's game

 

[Rouel_14]

Carlton killed princess park a bit when they knocked down the stand to build the new training facility building. With the stand kept & a bit of TLC the ground would be perfect to host several women's games & the odd men's game

Wasn't one of the main reasons of moving to Etihad because it was no longer up to a standard of what fans expect?



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[Ned_Flanders]

Wasn't one of the main reasons of moving to Etihad because it was no longer up to a standard of what fans expect?



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A big part was the fees carlton charged club to play there. Etihad was.more about waverley, and yes, the fans expecting more than that site was providing

 

[Bulldogs2017]

What's the point now the AFL owns Etihad?


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[Roogal]

It might be that the lower lighting levels expected for womens isnt as big a issue for the locals, like whitten oval at the exhibition game last year the lighting is significantly less than the near day like levels the afl expect.

The AFL standard for male night competition is a minimum of 1000 lux for TV broadcasting, although of a game isn't broadcast then they will accept 500 lux. Consider that the MCG and Etihad illuminate to around 1300 lux and Simonds is at around 1200. The minimum standard for VFL night competition games is a far more modest 200 lux which is fine for spectators and players and nobody gets eye strain, but it would look weak if you try to televise with it.

Whitten Ovals four new towers installed last year currently illuminate to 200 lux but have enough spare points to add more lights in the future to lift the ground to 500 lux (about the same as the Holden Centre Oval). The temporary lights that are being placed at the Whitten Oval during the AWFL games are simply bridging the luminosity to about 500 lux.

 

[bombersfan4000]

Yeah I have heard Eddie claim Collingwood run at a loss on Anzac Day, doesn't mention it's a members only match pretty much.

lol Eddie is full of crap and has been for years, each home team makes a killing on the day, several figures have been thrown about from 500k to 700k
wookie has a nice chart some where that has a rough guide in crowd sizes and returns on the day for the MCG, if you could find that or he could post it it would be a good indication

 

[Allan Shorty]

The last estimate was $50m for getting pp up to spec

That seems cheap for the work needed. It's in an awful state.

 

[Silent Alarm]

That seems cheap for the work needed. It's in an awful state.

What do you have to do? Paint, build toilets, fix up stairs... it is cosmetics and not really the fundamental brick and mortar of the place. How much does a school cost to build? I reckon it'd be around that price.

 

[workhorse]

What do you have to do? Paint, build toilets, fix up stairs... it is cosmetics and not really the fundamental brick and mortar of the place. How much does a school cost to build? I reckon it'd be around that price.

Needs a little more than that. The grandstands (not sure of the names) on the broadcast side would need to be pretty much gutted. I was there for the VAFA Premier Grand Final last year and literally parts of it were falling a part. The foundation/structure is there but would need pretty much brand-new everything else, although things like changing to seats instead of benches may mean it would need to be re-engineered and structure brought up to spec etc. Add in all the amenities as well. I'd say 50mil would be the absolute minimum but probably closer to 75mil if they really want it to be up to 21st century standards.

 

[BulldogJake]

What do you have to do? Paint, build toilets, fix up stairs... it is cosmetics and not really the fundamental brick and mortar of the place. How much does a school cost to build? I reckon it'd be around that price.

Carlton also need to stop using aisles as storage ffs. At the AFLW double-header, I saw old seats, washing machine, cricket equpitment, few other absolute random things.

 

[seanoff]

The AFL standard for male night competition is a minimum of 1000 lux for TV broadcasting, although of a game isn't broadcast then they will accept 500 lux. Consider that the MCG and Etihad illuminate to around 1300 lux and Simonds is at around 1200. The minimum standard for VFL night competition games is a far more modest 200 lux which is fine for spectators and players and nobody gets eye strain, but it would look weak if you try to televise with it.

Whitten Ovals four new towers installed last year currently illuminate to 200 lux but have enough spare points to add more lights in the future to lift the ground to 500 lux (about the same as the Holden Centre Oval). The temporary lights that are being placed at the Whitten Oval during the AWFL games are simply bridging the luminosity to about 500 lux.

The MCG is at 1500 vert and 2000 horizontal for lux levels.

Simonds is 1400. I suspect that is vert.

EUFA (and prob Fifa ) require a minimum of 2000 horizontal and 1500 vert if you want to host a Champ league final.

 

[Roogal]

The MCG is at 1500 vert and 2000 horizontal for lux levels.

Simonds is 1400. I suspect that is vert.

EUFA (and prob Fifa ) require a minimum of 2000 horizontal and 1500 vert if you want to host a Champ league final.

You are right, the AFL set their minimum standards in a document that is readily available for reading on the internet. They quote "lux" which works on different levels depending upon the age of the lights. Simonds was initially set at a certain level (1400) and deteriorates at a percentile each year subject to lights not being replaced or maintained (which of course the lights would be maintained).

The minimum for AFL TV broadcast by their own definition is 1000 which is about where TIO stadium, Cazalys and Aurora are at.

Probably the best are at Etihad where there are 850 (2000 watt) lights spread around the roof where of course there are no shadows created.

There are many definitions but of course the ultimate is when a stadium can recreate sunlight conditions without shadow.

 

[Rouel_14]

You are right, the AFL set their minimum standards in a document that is readily available for reading on the internet. They quote "lux" which works on different levels depending upon the age of the lights. Simonds was initially set at a certain level (1400) and deteriorates at a percentile each year subject to lights not being replaced or maintained (which of course the lights would be maintained).

The minimum for AFL TV broadcast by their own definition is 1000 which is about where TIO stadium, Cazalys and Aurora are at.

Probably the best are at Etihad where there are 850 (2000 watt) lights spread around the roof where of course there are no shadows created.

There are many definitions but of course the ultimate is when a stadium can recreate sunlight conditions without shadow.

Etihad is a much more dull light compared too the MCG, I don't care what anyone says, that's half the problem there I think, it has a very dull feel to it

 

[Roogal]

Etihad is a much more dull light compared too the MCG, I don't care what anyone says, that's half the problem there I think, it has a very dull feel to it

That's probably a perceptional thing where at the MCG with its very old lights that have been added to over the years by encircling the new stands at the arena with more flood lights, it creates a perception that the gound is brighter than what it actually is. Etihad was built as some 16 years after the MCG lights were installed but it has the advantage that no lights are positioned to cast shadows. The worst case is Subiaco where there are definite shadows cast from its lights that actually create a perception of bias from certain towers.

If for instance, they were to televise from Ballarat's Eureka Stadium in its present lighting configuration, then there would be very defined shadows on the field created by the nearest tower. With the field illuminated at 300 lux, yes you'd still see the play at home on your TV, but you would also see a lot of defined shadows. They need to get to about 1000 lux (across the field) before you completely eliminate that and start coming close to replicating a day-time broadcast.