A thread on politics- have some balls and post

[Skoob]

Don't spin my words Skoob. I said my generation was entitled which is current mid 20 year olds.

In your last post you did, but not in an earlier one where you were generalising about workers.

I'm obviously not the only person who shares these sentiments. We all have the same opportunities in life.
.

That is patently untrue.

Also describing my opinion as silly is uncalled for. Attack my argument not the person behind it, it only makes for thread to turn into disaster which makes for tiresome reading for everyone.

Umm, yeah, I said "silly comments". That is attacking your arguments/comments.

 

[Dalions]

Also describing my opinion as silly is uncalled for. Attack my argument not the person behind it

How does describing your opinion as silly, all of a sudden become a personal attack.

 

[Leemas]

In your last post you did, but not in an earlier one where you were generalising about workers.

That is patently untrue.

Umm, yeah, I said "silly comments". That is attacking your arguments/comments.

In Australia everyone has he same opportunities. Disputing that is ludicrous I know people from some of the worst places Australia has to offer that are incredibly successful.

You clearly have the complete opposite opinion on life to me. I believe that If you want something work hard for it. I've seen plenty of examples of that already in my life all whom are very successful individuals of varying ages, that's the basis of my reasoning.

If you don't take that outlook we are clearly not going to agree on anything here.

 

[Skoob]

In Australia everyone has he same opportunities. Disputing that is ludicrous I know people from some of the worst places Australia has to offer that are incredibly successful.

Haha. Not even going to argue that one. Spoken like someone who got opportunities.

 

[Leemas]

Haha. Not even going to argue that one. Spoken like someone who got opportunities.

Getting decent enough grades to go to university? Check.

Applying for apprenticeships until I got one? Check.

I'd say these two are very basic things you can achieve without opportunity. And the basic opportunities provided to I'd say the vast majority of these workers who have these said jobs.

 

[Hollow Knight]

 

[matwt73]

Getting decent enough grades to go to university? Check.

Applying for apprenticeships until I got one? Check.

I'd say these two are very basic things you can achieve without opportunity. And the basic opportunities provided to I'd say the vast majority of these workers who have these said jobs.

Leemas , I am not for a minute suggesting that you are entitled or that you did not work hard to get to where you are, but the nature of privilege is often that those of us who have it often don't recognise it.

The fact that University was an option for you and your family puts you well ahead of a lot of people.

I've worked with families where the kids had to work to support their parents because their parents didn't speak English, or had to care for elderly relatives, they had a significantly poorer opportunity to 'get decent enough grades'.

I've seen families that had to move from refuge to refuge, because of violence issues, changing schools three or four times in the space of a couple of years.

I've seen country kids, going to schools that don't have a qualified senior physics or maths teacher, or a chemistry lab, or don't offer some subjects because no-one ever does those subjects.

And yes, I've seen individuals overcome these negatives but it would be naïve to suggest that those individuals achieved because 'they had the same opportunities' as everyone else. There are opportunities in Australia but there are also an awful lot of ways to fall through the cracks, and we don't address those issues by pretending that the cracks don't exist.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Our society is set up so everyone in theory starts the race at the same mark. Some just happen to have a ball and chain around their ankle while others get the inside track.

I didn't step foot in a public school until I was a qualified teacher, I even did my prac at a private school. Wake up call.

There's some kids out there that are really up against it, for little to no fault of their own.

 

[briztoon]

In Australia everyone has he same opportunities. Disputing that is ludicrous I know people from some of the worst places Australia has to offer that are incredibly successful.

You clearly have the complete opposite opinion on life to me. I believe that If you want something work hard for it. I've seen plenty of examples of that already in my life all whom are very successful individuals of varying ages, that's the basis of my reasoning.

If you don't take that outlook we are clearly not going to agree on anything here.

You're kidding right?

That is such an incredibly naive comment.

 

[dlanod]

"In short, why not say to the people of Australia: we'll cut the RET [renewable energy target] to help with your power bills; we'll cut immigration to make housing more affordable; we'll scrap the Human Rights Commission to stop official bullying; we'll stop all new spending to end ripping off our grandkids; and we'll reform the Senate to have government, not gridlock?"

Ah Tony... the RET makes bugger all difference with power bills, immigration isn't why housing is unaffordable - it's the outsized incentives for richer investors, I didn't even realise we had a HRC so that says how much it actually matters to the people of Australia, and you're just unrealistic if you plan on reforming the Senate given you need to pass anything to do so through said Senate. The fact that you don't understand that you're just regurgitating ideological talking points is a large part of why the public got sick of you. We want someone to actually fix problems rather than push one-eyed solutions - look at how long Hawke and Howard lasted regardless of their politics.

 

[Skoob]

, I didn't even realise we had a HRC so that says how much it actually matters to the people of Australia,.

Sure you do. It's the one that found the Government (Labor and Liberal) to be handling asylum seekers horribly inhumanely, so the the commissioner was slaughtered by comments from the current Gov't and their pals in the media, and then replaced by one of their own stooges.

 

[CarterS]

Our society is set up so everyone in theory starts the race at the same mark. Some just happen to have a ball and chain around their ankle while others get the inside track.

I didn't step foot in a public school until I was a qualified teacher, I even did my prac at a private school. Wake up call.

There's some kids out there that are really up against it, for little to no fault of their own.

Just curious, what exactly about the experience was a wake up call? (Apart from obviously your last sentence there).

 

[CarterS]

Seems like I found this thread just after the American discussion died down but one thing I will say is that twice in the last week I have been straight up called a fascist or nazi for daring declare that I support Trump. So ridiculous. I have yet to meet one person who has said "I don't like him but respect your right to," it is variations on "if you like him you are wrong" to "if you like him you are a nazi" to the supremely arrogant "If only you could see the facts as they are, you would understand I am right."

The media are so frothing at the mouth anti-Trump that I have just stopped paying any attention to them. I know many others have too.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Just curious, what exactly about the experience was a wake up call? (Apart from obviously your last sentence there).

The number of students who have just terrible social, family and/or economic problems holding them back.

Orphans of double suicides, children of meth/heroin addicts, abuse, poverty... you name it.

 

[matwt73]

Seems like I found this thread just after the American discussion died down but one thing I will say is that twice in the last week I have been straight up called a fascist or nazi for daring declare that I support Trump. So ridiculous. I have yet to meet one person who has said "I don't like him but respect your right to," it is variations on "if you like him you are wrong" to "if you like him you are a nazi" to the supremely arrogant "If only you could see the facts as they are, you would understand I am right."

The media are so frothing at the mouth anti-Trump that I have just stopped paying any attention to them. I know many others have too.

I didn't see the America discussion.

And don't know what you have been called or why.

I will admit though that I struggle to see any redeeming personal or political features in the current POTUS and struggle to see how anyone familiar with him, his history, his business dealings and his rhetoric can 'like' him.

If that is elitism so be it.



On HTC 2PS6200 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SizeMatters]

If you want to talk about generations being entitled look no further than the baby boomers.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I will admit though that I struggle to see any redeeming personal or political features in the current POTUS and struggle to see how anyone familiar with him, his history, his business dealings and his rhetoric can 'like' him.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-idUSKBN1622IF

ffs

 

[Elixuh]

Seems like I found this thread just after the American discussion died down but one thing I will say is that twice in the last week I have been straight up called a fascist or nazi for daring declare that I support Trump. So ridiculous. I have yet to meet one person who has said "I don't like him but respect your right to," it is variations on "if you like him you are wrong" to "if you like him you are a nazi" to the supremely arrogant "If only you could see the facts as they are, you would understand I am right."

The media are so frothing at the mouth anti-Trump that I have just stopped paying any attention to them. I know many others have too.

Interested to hear your thoughts on Trump. Do you support him in all policies and the like? Do you support him on some issues and not others?

 

[James North]

I think the reason he's such an easy target for the media and most people with a political interest is because of his behaviour.

It's very convenient to say that the media has suddenly bonded to magically attack the current Republican, but why this one?

The guy is a big child.

 

[pulpdriver]

I think the reason he's such an easy target for the media and most people with a political interest is because of his behaviour.

It's very convenient to say that the media has suddenly bonded to magically attack the current Republican, but why this one?

The guy is a big child.

They attacked the last republican pretty liberally. Bush was rightfully made a joke for 8 years.

However I'll disagree on Trump being attacked solely for behaviour. The guy undoubtedly has an embarrassing ego problem but it's not the reason why virtually all the media has banded against him. The media deduced the narrative months ago and have continued on with it since he became a possible candidate.

Bezos who owns the Washington Post developed a relationship with Clinton back in 2012 when his Kindles in schools program was approved by Clinton. He made numerous donations to her campaign.

Carlos Slim (largest New York Times shareholder) and James Murdoch (21st century Fox) were the two largest donors to Hillary's campaign from media entities. Fox News who had been singing quite an un-Trump song throughout the primaries and election has totally changed it's tune and it's no secret that Rupert has taken the reigns and been quite instrumental in ensuring the network is friendly the POTUS, Carlson being given Megyn Kelly's slot at his insistence the most obvious attempt at appeasement.

Media Matters, HuffingtonPost, Trueblue or whatever they call themselves now are all Soros owned and Soros relationship with the Clintons goes back to Bill's presidency.

Along with Thomas Reuters these are just the major donors. Clinton had smaller recorded donations from CBS, ABC, Bloomberg, Time Warner (CNN), Google, HBO, Viacom and NBC.

It's not just Trump's behaviour that causes the media to focus on him, the corporate owners of the media made an investment in a candidate which yielded nought. Only one of them has tried to make amends to solidify their position, the rest are still left frustrated. All of them spent money on what was supposedly a sure thing, no doubt with proposed benefits, and they got no return. And now they're pissed.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Seems like I found this thread just after the American discussion died down but one thing I will say is that twice in the last week I have been straight up called a fascist or nazi for daring declare that I support Trump. So ridiculous. I have yet to meet one person who has said "I don't like him but respect your right to," it is variations on "if you like him you are wrong" to "if you like him you are a nazi" to the supremely arrogant "If only you could see the facts as they are, you would understand I am right."

The media are so frothing at the mouth anti-Trump that I have just stopped paying any attention to them. I know many others have too.

He'd probably get a little more positive media attention if he made a good decision or two but that's yet to happen.

 

[Skoob]

He'd probably get a little more positive media attention if he made a good decision or two but that's yet to happen.

Or made one speech/media statement not laden with lies. Just one. Just one where their admin didn't just concoct something to suit their rhetoric.

 

[Viceregal]

He'd probably get a little more positive media attention if he made a good decision or two but that's yet to happen.

Whether a decision is good or not can be a tad subjective.

Even in our corner of the world there are decisions made by AFL House that benefit larger traditional local clubs and aren't quite so helpful for the 'interstate' ones. Was removing the retention allowance a 'good' decision? If you listen to (way too many threads where it comes up) your average Collingwood or Richmond supporter then it was a great decision and the only reason we got the flags was because of it. It doesn't matter how many facts (Lions were not even close to the top spending club) or logic (it was available to anyone and if it was such an awesome factor why didn't other clubs deliberately create the conditions themselves to take advantage of it) you bring into it the mental narrative is set and the (invisible) privilege of a Pie is seen as 'normal' and any attempts to (in our view) balance the competition are considered 'unbalancing' and 'unfair'.

Relevance to current discussion? The MSM are looking at things from a globalist / 'progressive' etc perspective. Those elements have been doing quite nicely since Bush Sr and the two main parties have pretty much worked together on increasing government role/size/spending and following along with the 'helpful suggestions' of their sponsors (donors to political campaigns etc). Anyone who comes along and makes decisions based on what is best for the US (securing border, enforcing already existing laws, protecting own citizens, encouraging local manufacturing etc) is going to get push back from the people who have been doing quite nicely in a more globalist / investment economy world. If Trump does end up getting traction re swamp draining then I would expect it to get more biased again because it is their own side that is getting hurt. Trumps 'tribe' and their 'tribe' are rarely going to be benefited by the same decision (in this case the globalists are the Pies above and the US Citizens are the Lions above)

I may not (ok don't) agree with a lot of what the 'progressive' side is after but I understand the motivations, see the logic behind their actions inside their worldview and where some things are heading. I don't demonise them for their beliefs nor their (non-hypocritical) actions.

The whole concept of 'I may disagree with you but I will defend to the death your right to say it' is not exactly a shared value these days. Like Benjamin Franklin predicted the stakes would get high enough and the benefits of being in power large enough that everything the other side did would be wrong and when they did do something right the other side would never praise them for they have become the enemy. I find it easier to understand the motivations and editorial choices of the likes of CNN et al when I think of them as democrat/progressive operatives with bylines rather than the 'free press' they purport to be. Not that we do a much better job here...

 

[James North]

They attacked the last republican pretty liberally. Bush was rightfully made a joke for 8 years.

However I'll disagree on Trump being attacked solely for behaviour. The guy undoubtedly has an embarrassing ego problem but it's not the reason why virtually all the media has banded against him. The media deduced the narrative months ago and have continued on with it since he became a possible candidate.

Bezos who owns the Washington Post developed a relationship with Clinton back in 2012 when his Kindles in schools program was approved by Clinton. He made numerous donations to her campaign.

Carlos Slim (largest New York Times shareholder) and James Murdoch (21st century Fox) were the two largest donors to Hillary's campaign from media entities. Fox News who had been singing quite an un-Trump song throughout the primaries and election has totally changed it's tune and it's no secret that Rupert has taken the reigns and been quite instrumental in ensuring the network is friendly the POTUS, Carlson being given Megyn Kelly's slot at his insistence the most obvious attempt at appeasement.

Media Matters, HuffingtonPost, Trueblue or whatever they call themselves now are all Soros owned and Soros relationship with the Clintons goes back to Bill's presidency.

Along with Thomas Reuters these are just the major donors. Clinton had smaller recorded donations from CBS, ABC, Bloomberg, Time Warner (CNN), Google, HBO, Viacom and NBC.

It's not just Trump's behaviour that causes the media to focus on him, the corporate owners of the media made an investment in a candidate which yielded nought. Only one of them has tried to make amends to solidify their position, the rest are still left frustrated. All of them spent money on what was supposedly a sure thing, no doubt with proposed benefits, and they got no return. And now they're pissed.

Bush was made fun of, but this is another level.

The Clinton money trail refers to the US media - what about the other several hundred countries who report on him in the same manner?

 

[ZoBlitz]

One thing that Trump has done is create an atmosphere whereby any criticism of himself and his administration can just be written off as "fake news" by biased news organisations. What people should always be doing when reading stuff in the media is doing their own critical analysis to see what seems credible rather than only reading stuff that supports their viewpoint. It's a very close minded way to approach the world otherwise.

But then again no one has ever gone broke providing easy answers to complex questions and criticising others who disagree with this.