Autopsy Saints v Demons, Round 1 Post Game

[JG22]

Wow, new year but the same supporters throwing tantrums about recruiting, coaching and players next people will be asking to have Scott Watters return!

I'm expecting defeat next week but hoping we have a real crack, then get back to Etihad and play like we did in the first quarter for a full game.

We need to win 12 of our next 21 to make the eight, would be a great effort with the third hardest draw in the competition.

As for people bagging our players and club, please go and support some other team, like Subiaco!

Let those who want to melt, melt.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

"Bits and pieces players" describes it perfectly. That's the outcome. In other words players who didn't work out as mids even though we identified them as mids.

We've played one Fk'in game, get a grip!!!

 

[King_Steele]

"Bits and pieces players" describes it perfectly. That's the outcome. In other words players who didn't work out as mids even though we identified them as mids.

Who are you referring to mate?

Dunstan was always an inside mid?

Acres avareaged 27 possies in the wafl colts, playing mid?

 

[JG22]

"Bits and pieces players" describes it perfectly. That's the outcome. In other words players who didn't work out as mids even though we identified them as mids.

They were never proper mids in u/18s to be fair though.

JB played forward.
Gresham actually played at half back and pushed up a little.
Acres was injured.
DMac a half back athlete not footballer.
Dunstan may have played midfield but he doesn't look up to it anyway

 

[George]

Couldn't agree more

I didn't start following the saints until Heatley crossed over from subi. So I wasn't around during the down of the 80s but I agree 200% with your sentiment. The bullshit that gets thrown around about "we've through worse" is absolutely the wrong mentality to have.

It's funny when you follow a successful club you get used to how they speak and what they do. The fan base speaks a certain way and has a certain expectation. When you follow them from a time when they weren't so successful you can see how that changes.

I've seen it with subi albeit in the WAFL we played finals rarely dropped out of finals but we never got that flag. Then we broke through and won 3 in a row. Lost the 4th in a row to stacked south freo side.

Then we played in another GF after a quick rebuild. Lost it. Then had another quick rebuild. Won back to back flags. Another grand final for the 3rd but lost it to a stacked peel side basically rules were broken to get them that flag.

They just know what they're doing. Supporters don't accept failure there. They know what the club needs to do. There's no sentimentality or false optimism.

I get a completely different vibe on here. It's hard to explain but if you've followed a successful club you'd get it and see it. It's like reading other clubs boards on here like carlton/freo. You can tell they don't get it. We are no where near that bad but the steadfast defence and belief that every player will be great and club does nothing wrong is a reflection of the wider supporter base IMO. It's like there's this belief that it's inevitable we will win another flag and if we don't well it's not as bad as the 80s so who cares.

I think theres also a vibe of everything's great then when it completely bottoms out suddenly the people that were once labeled as hero's on here are now mud. I mean look at netters. He was praised and praised on here then when he got the sack suddenly it clicked as to how bad it was.

This extends to the recruiting dept IMO I'm sorry but two decent mids in Ross and Newnes from the draft in 6 years is attrocious. I'm surprised it's not copping more criticism. If it's not the recruitment team then it's our coaches. Somewhere there's a massive discount in the ability to identify midfield talent and then develop them.

Take someone like jimmy webster. Recruited as a winger. Suddenly hes in the back 6. Which atleast hes best 22 and will be very good down there. But then you get the likes of Eli Templeton. Recruited as a winger, openly described as in the top 20 on their list. Gone.

Acres and dunstan: pick 18 and 19. Both played on the half back flank in the championships but touted as being drafted as mids by our club. They've been in the system for 3 years this is their 4th season. It's not looking good for either of them. With big weaknesses in their game.

There's other s**t I could write but I'm already rambling and it's probably the loss that has me ranting. If we won I'd probably hold off but damn this can't keep going on forever. We've been rebuilding for 5 plus years now

Really appreciate that post mate. Interesting to see how you view it given you've only supported since 97 or so. And you are spot on with the collective mentality supporters have about their club. We shouldn't discredit the chance that there's every possibility we may never win another flag. That, whilst unlikely, is still a possibility. It scares the heck out of me to think I'd never see one in my lifetime. If the collective view of the club is that it "wasn't as bad as the 80's so who cares" we will never go anywhere. I'm glad that the people in charge of St.Kilda these days don't have that view - if they had the same view as some on here we'd be stuffed.

I completely understand the frustration of many on here and people's concerns are definitely legitimate. It doesn't matter if it's Round 1 or Round 22 we need to be better than what we produced out there today, and I think as a collective we need to move past the woe is me mentality of the 80's and start demanding consistency from the club and the playing group.

I've been through my fair share of heart break. A fully grown man I sat and cried outside the MCG after the 97 and 09 GF. I went to the draw and the replay of 2010. I have every reason to have the same mentality of others on here but we have to move past it. I'm patient with the club in rebuilding phases because we understand the nature of the sport but there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough - we are at the point in our development now that we should be putting in consistent performances win lose or draw...the 2017 St.Kilda side shouldn't be letting any opposition kick 10 straight like that or completely falling asleep for an entire half of football.

Richo would be livid.

As for your comments regarding our recruiting I can't say I agree but appreciate your POV. We definitely blundered a lot of selections from really 2007 to 2012. I believe the progress we made in recruiting since has definitely been positive however as you say re Dunstan and Acres there comes a time when we need to reassess. Acres has been in the system long enough now to demand regular games and for a former SA U18 captain I'd expect more from Dunstan. It wasn't all his fault today as the midfield as a collective was the reason we lost the game but he did play a part. 16 possessions and 3 tackles isn't good enough.

I think those that are frustrated or upset with the club after losses like these are the ones who truly want things to change. Next week is such a massive test for the playing group.

 

[sauce_head]

Na bro finished uni now, working full time.
Yes, valid point Joffa only round 1. Except, our next 10 games we got Adelaide, GWS, Geelong WB, Syd, Hawks & WCE.

That's why we will be nowhere near finals this year. Strange how people think an easy rub last year will make us better with a harder one this year.

 

[Luke_sainters]

That's why we will be nowhere near finals this year. Strange how people think an easy rub last year will make us better with a harder one this year.

Yep. Well depending on how Hawks go hopefully two top 10 picks. 2 x A grade mids.

Third pick 45 a ATHLETIC & MOBILE KPD

 

[35Saints35]

Dunstan was a midfielder recruited as a midfielder and plays pretty well a midfielder

Great pick

Billings is the pick that is costing us atm

I snapped at a thread created last year questioning his development, I was wrong

He should be further ahead than where he is for a top 3 pick

Either we got the pick wrong or he's not putting in or his body is crock

I know, easy to fly off a handle after a loss, but unfortunately for him, when the picks either side of him are killing it, he will be regarded as a disappointment

Also, if I read one more ITK say Billings is the most talented footballer they've ever seen in a St Kilda jumper I'll spew

On current output, Nick dal Santo to name one player ottomh, has twice the talent Billings has

Agree totally . Billings is not living up to it . Doesn't have intensity . Does roam very well has nice disposal generally but it number 3 output . Bit of a shame so far , when he's on he's a rolls Royce when he's not he is not . The young excuse doesn't fly anymore . Getting scared he won't make it to what we had hoped .

 

[saint_]

Got absolutely hammered in the midfield. Backline was helpless because of that. Incredibly disappointing. You could see Melbourne were even reading Hickey when Gawn went off. We were very reactive, just had no leadership whatsoever or no player wanting to change the momentum of the game from that midfield group. Full credit to Melbourne, they smelt blood and took their opportunities.

 

[StCicatriz]

Who are you referring to mate?

Dunstan was always an inside mid?

Acres avareaged 27 possies in the wafl colts, playing mid?

colts is a level or two below TAC Cup football. its probably more what your school system is over there.

the good colts players player reserves or senior WAFL football

you get KPD playing colts going into the midfield an absolutely dominating even though theyre played completely out of position, because theyre good footballers against pretty average opposition

you are better off looking at their senior WAFL form if they have it if not their champs

 

[JG22]

Agree totally . Billings is not living up to it . Doesn't have intensity . Does roam very well has nice disposal generally but it number 3 output . Bit of a shame so far , when he's on he's a rolls Royce when he's not he is not . The young excuse doesn't fly anymore . Getting scared he won't make it to what we had hoped .

Agree totally . Billings is not living up to it . Doesn't have intensity . Does roam very well has nice disposal generally but it number 3 output . Bit of a shame so far , when he's on he's a rolls Royce when he's not he is not . The young excuse doesn't fly anymore . Getting scared he won't make it to what we had hoped .

He's a winger and a very good one. Keep an eye on him over the next month. He wasn't bad today, but don't blame him for not winning contested ball.

 

[sauce_head]

Agree totally . Billings is not living up to it . Doesn't have intensity . Does roam very well has nice disposal generally but it number 3 output . Bit of a shame so far , when he's on he's a rolls Royce when he's not he is not . The young excuse doesn't fly anymore . Getting scared he won't make it to what we had hoped .

Billings mind is ahead of his body. I'm not sure if this is a thing that can be fixed or not. He's ideas are great but his execution lack precision. Like his 50m + goal one minute then his failure to snap around his body to an open team mate minutes later. its buzzare.

 

[StCicatriz]

We've played one Fk'in game, get a grip!!!

ease up brian.

honest question where do you see the growth coming from in our midfield in the next 24 months?

 

[JG22]

Yep. Well depending on how Hawks go hopefully two top 10 picks. 2 x A grade mids.

Third pick 45 a ATHLETIC & MOBILE KPD

That third pick would have be someone out of a state league.

If you want quality kpd you'd have to put a first round on it.

 

[sauce_head]

Got absolutely hammered in the midfield. Backline was helpless because of that. Incredibly disappointing. You could see Melbourne were even reading Hickey when Gawn went off. We were very reactive, just had no leadership whatsoever or no player wanting to change the momentum of the game from that midfield group. Full credit to Melbourne, they smelt blood and took their opportunities.

That's true. Our captain is Geary FFS. EVEN IF HE WASNT the actual one, he is now with Roo out. Sure his kicking has improved and he might train really well and always try hard, but it speaks volume anout our lack of quality.

 

[StCicatriz]

Really appreciate that post mate. Interesting to see how you view it given you've only supported since 97 or so. And you are spot on with the collective mentality supporters have about their club. We shouldn't discredit the chance that there's every possibility we may never win another flag. That, whilst unlikely, is still a possibility. It scares the heck out of me to think I'd never see one in my lifetime. If the collective view of the club is that it "wasn't as bad as the 80's so who cares" we will never go anywhere. I'm glad that the people in charge of St.Kilda these days don't have that view - if they had the same view as some on here we'd be stuffed.

I completely understand the frustration of many on here and people's concerns are definitely legitimate. It doesn't matter if it's Round 1 or Round 22 we need to be better than what we produced out there today, and I think as a collective we need to move past the woe is me mentality of the 80's and start demanding consistency from the club and the playing group.

I've been through my fair share of heart break. A fully grown man I sat and cried outside the MCG after the 97 and 09 GF. I went to the draw and the replay of 2010. I have every reason to have the same mentality of others on here but we have to move past it. I'm patient with the club in rebuilding phases because we understand the nature of the sport but there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough - we are at the point in our development now that we should be putting in consistent performances win lose or draw...the 2017 St.Kilda side shouldn't be letting any opposition kick 10 straight like that or completely falling asleep for an entire half of football.

Richo would be livid.

As for your comments regarding our recruiting I can't say I agree but appreciate your POV. We definitely blundered a lot of selections from really 2007 to 2012. I believe the progress we made in recruiting since has definitely been positive however as you say re Dunstan and Acres there comes a time when we need to reassess. Acres has been in the system long enough now to demand regular games and for a former SA U18 captain I'd expect more from Dunstan. It wasn't all his fault today as the midfield as a collective was the reason we lost the game but he did play a part. 16 possessions and 3 tackles isn't good enough.

I think those that are frustrated or upset with the club after losses like these are the ones who truly want things to change. Next week is such a massive test for the playing group.

and thats fine we arent going to agree on everything and people will see things differently. thats ok! its a football forum, people are going to speak their mind, completely unfiltered. theres not going to be another medium where you will see that from people who genuinely love the club. its good i know i can be 100% honest to you and know its not going to get personal

i think supporters need to start thinking about the problem areas. this is the problem and when do i want to see it improved by. not necessarily fixed but improved and what the rate of improvement will be

we cant keep having days like today. not 6 years on.

 

[Periphery]

Gresham actually played at half back and pushed up a little.

Nope. He was a mid.

 

[StCicatriz]

in 2018, who do people think will be in our midfield and what level do you want it to be performing at? do you think it will hit that level or what changes do you think we need to make?

 

[Luke_sainters]

That third pick would have be someone out of a state league.

If you want quality kpd you'd have to put a first round on it.

Tom & Oscar McDonald were both 3rd round picks, as was Hooker former defender, E. MacKenzie 60s, Hamling, Roberts, Morris late picks...

 

[King_Steele]

Nope. He was a mid.

Maybe we should've recruited Balic.

We would be 3 time premiers.

 

[JG22]

Nope. He was a mid.

Your right, was the previous year.
Tony Elshaug says:

“Jade played for the Northern Knights. He played in defence last year at 177cm playing on the smaller types. This year he went forward and played in the midfield and had a very good year. Jade went on to be Vic Metro’s most valuable player and showed his quality there at winning the ball consistently setting up the play. He has good pace, good speed, good endurance, making good decisions by right and left hand and foot. He has shown a good capability to kick a goal and he finished off the year strongly as well. He is a very exciting player.”

 

[Quixote]

I don't know who posted that picture or why -- but it is actually perfect.

 

[StCicatriz]

Maybe we should've recruited Balic.

We would be 3 time premiers.

i get the sledge and its a good one

but i think credit where credit is due, freo under lloyd find the mids with picks not necessarily in the top 25 picks. blakely and neale will drive that engine and are very good mids. blakely albeit still going through a development phase. balic hasnt played 5 games at the back end of last year due to injury, similar to freeman when we got him, but balic is demonstrating he needs to be played at the highest level.

weller is a very good selection.

freo just suck at trading and the ability to find KPP players. plus i question their whole strategy

but finding midfielders they're going ok at! their issue has been that sometimes they dont know what they have (hi menengola)

 

[George]

and thats fine we arent going to agree on everything and people will see things differently. thats ok! its a football forum, people are going to speak their mind, completely unfiltered. theres not going to be another medium where you will see that from people who genuinely love the club. its good i know i can be 100% honest to you and know its not going to get personal

i think supporters need to start thinking about the problem areas. this is the problem and when do i want to see it improved by. not necessarily fixed but improved and what the rate of improvement will be

we cant keep having days like today. not 6 years on.

Most definitely...good to have some back and forth discussion. I can obviously tell you want the club to be successful and appreciate that.

I made a thread earlier this year about what we needed to improve in 2017, one of them was performances like today and the other was interstate travel...so next week is just such a big test for our guys, even if we lose it's just the way we go about it and I think that can be said for every game we play. Supporters can tell if the players are giving it a red hot crack or not. And that's all we want to see.

People can say it's only one game but that's not the right mentality to have IMO. Why aren't we allowed to demand consistency? Consistency of effort at the very least?

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing or a negative thing to be discussing problem areas regarding what happened today. I enjoy the discussion.

Some good honest & respectful discussion is what I think we need sometimes and whilst I have a lot of faith in the club we need to be realistic. Falling asleep for quarters or halves in games happened far too often in 2016 for it to be an outlier today. It's a pattern that I keep seeing and am worried about. Not because I think it will never improve but because I wonder how long it will take. We stormed home in the last half of 2016, were strong in JLT, everyone up and about. So what happened today? Did we get ahead of ourselves?

 

[Kawalsky]

Melbourne killed us by spreading the field and we didn't reacted to it and didn't do the same to them.

Mid's were killed and didn't run both ways, actually didn't run either way. We struggle in the midfield when Hickey doesn't tap to our advantage. The same thing happened last year when we got smashed by the Eagles in Perth.

Richo seems to not like changing things up in the midfield when it's not working during the game or it's Sexton: Director of Coaching & Strategy that might need to go back and have a look at his game strategy. Was it game strategy to name Paddy and then play another small in the forward line. Weird excuse that he is fit to play but not "professionally" fit to play, but he can still go and play in the VFL and that's ok. Don't think it would have made much of a difference if Paddy played as we got smashed all over the field. Lack of intensity, lake of ball skills, poor kicks, poor handballs the only bit I like was Gresham side steps in the forward line.

Also think we need to go with one of Gresham and Lonie in the team. Gresham for me as he had a bigger impact on the game.

Also bit strange that no one realised they were late getting onto the field to start the game (missed their warm up), a bit unprofessional.

Interesting to see if the coaches change the way we tackle teams that like to spread the field and to get the guys heads back into the correct frame of mind. Thank god Naitanui is injured as we might win some clearances.