Political Discussion

[WCE1987]

It's dead easy, actually. Climate Change is resulting in the oceans becoming warmer. Warmer water gives the cyclones more energy to feed, resulting in them becoming more dangerous.

Yes, I know that would be the logical assumption. Just hard to measure as they are other factors that influence weather patterns that are naturally occurring.
http://www.bom.gov.au/cyclone/climatology/trends.shtml

 

[PrideOf]

Being a Greens MP must be great fun. You get to slag off everyone, come out with all sorts of weird bullshit, all the while knowing you will never, ever have your politics or leadership put to the test by actually having to do anything.

 

[PrideOf]

Leon Bignell. Discuss.

He's our local member. Apparently.

He's good for one thing - whenever we see Bignell's shadow cast in his own electorate we know an election is coming up.

 

[Ramify]

It's dead easy, actually. Climate Change is resulting in the oceans becoming warmer. Warmer water gives the cyclones more energy to feed, resulting in them becoming more dangerous.

So this wasnt one of those natural Cyclones then?
There are markers pointing to this being a result of CO2 emmisions?

I Agree it is dead easy. Too easy in fact.

 

[Ramify]

Yes, I know that would be the logical assumption. Just hard to measure as they are other factors that influence weather patterns that are naturally occurring.
http://www.bom.gov.au/cyclone/climatology/trends.shtml

Not a "Logical" assumption whatsoever.

 

[Vader]

Yes, I know that would be the logical assumption. Just hard to measure as they are other factors that influence weather patterns that are naturally occurring.
http://www.bom.gov.au/cyclone/climatology/trends.shtml

There's a saying - Climate is what you expect, Weather is what you get. Climate is about longer term trends, weather is about what we experience today, here, now.

It's impossible to quantify how much impact Global Warming has on any individual cyclone, but on average cyclones are expected to be more severe as a result of climate change.

 

[Vader]

So this wasnt one of those natural Cyclones then?
There are markers pointing to this being a result of CO2 emmisions?

I Agree it is dead easy. Too easy in fact.

This is a really, really stupid post. Climate Change impacts on the frequency and severity of cyclones, on average, over the longer term. It is impossible to say "this particular cyclone would never have occurred without Climate Change". That's the difference between Climate and Weather.

 

[Ramify]

This is a really, really stupid post. Climate Change impacts on the frequency and severity of cyclones, on average, over the longer term. It is impossible to say "this cyclone would never have occurred without Climate Change". That's the difference between Climate and Weather.

Not stupid at all as you seem to have missed the part where you state it is dead easy to correlate this Cyclone with man made climate change.
Fact is you cant, and I can assure you that even the most militant climatologist wouldnt go as far as proposing this correlation.

You science much Vader or do you just regurgitate misinformed politicians claptrap?
I Ask because your conclusion is ridiculously unscientific.

 

[Vader]

Not stupid at all as you seem to have missed the part where you state it is dead easy to correlate this Cyclone with man made climate change.
Fact is you cant, and I can assure you that even the most militant climatologist wouldnt go as far as proposing this correlation.

You science much Vader or do you just regurgitate misinformed politicians claptrap?
I Ask because your conclusion is ridiculously unscientific.

Of course it's stupid. I never said that they could correlate "this Cyclone" with man made climate change, and nor did Adam Bandt, nor has anyone else. So why are you suggesting that I have? You're just making rubbish up, to justify a view which is slightly less justifiable than believing in a flat earth.

Maybe you missed the multiple posts I wrote, differentiating between Climate and Weather? Or maybe you're just being deliberately obtuse?

 

[Elite Crow]

Now that Hazelwood is closing we should have less cyclones.

 

[WCE1987]

Of course it's stupid. I never said that they could correlate "this Cyclone" with man made climate change, and nor did Adam Bandt, nor has anyone else. So why are you suggesting that I have? You're just making rubbish up, to justify a view which is slightly less justifiable than believing in a flat earth.

Maybe you missed the multiple posts I wrote, differentiating between Climate and Weather? Or maybe you're just being deliberately obtuse?

In Bandt's speech he said "the more coal we burn the more extreme weather events like cyclone Debbie we will see" it does seem like he is drawing the correlation. From what I've read they're actually saying that Cyclones will decrease with climate change, however when there is a an extreme one its damage could potentially be worse due to the 'expected sea level rises'. Temperature changes isn't they only thing that effects cyclones; there is wind and other factors hence why i mentioned that it would be hard to correlate.

Brandt should really of kept quite in this instance, and saved the climate change message the next time there is a heat wave in Melbourne.

 

[WCE1987]

Or maybe you're just being deliberately obtuse?

Know it wasn't at us but couldn't help it lol

 

[Vader]

In Bandt's speech he said "the more coal we burn the more extreme weather events like cyclone Debbie we will see" it does seem like he is drawing the correlation. From what I've read they're actually saying that Cyclones will decrease with climate change, however when there is a an extreme one its damage could potentially be worse due to the 'expected sea level rises'. Temperature changes isn't they only thing that effects cyclones; there is wind and other factors hence why i mentioned that it would be hard to correlate.

Brandt should really of kept quite in this instance, and saved the climate change message the next time there is a heat wave in Melbourne.

The problem with Bandt's statement is context, not content. His content was 100% factually accurate.

 

[Elite Crow]

The problem with Bandt's statement is context, not content. His content was 100% factually accurate.

I didn't listen to Brandt because the guy is a ********, but did he have a go at Turnbull for coal? If that's the case he's blaming Turnbull for contributing to climate change and cyclones. Ok then how much has Australias coal industry contributed to climate change? Compared to what the rest of the world is up to, I dare say if we shut down all coal it won't have an impact on climate change at all.

So you are as full of it as Brandt.

 

[DD#23]

I didn't listen to Brandt because the guy is a ********, but did he have a go at Turnbull for coal? If that's the case he's blaming Turnbull for contributing to climate change and cyclones. Ok then how much has Australias coal industry contributed to climate change? Compared to what the rest of the world is up to, I dare say if we shut down all coal it won't have an impact on climate change at all.

So you are as full of it as Brandt.

well considering we export something like three quarters of the coal we mine our coal industry contributes more than you might think, or should I say more than you can attribute to the coal we burn ourselves for electricity.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Of course it's stupid. I never said that they could correlate "this Cyclone" with man made climate change, and nor did Adam Bandt, nor has anyone else. So why are you suggesting that I have? You're just making rubbish up, to justify a view which is slightly less justifiable than believing in a flat earth.

Maybe you missed the multiple posts I wrote, differentiating between Climate and Weather? Or maybe you're just being deliberately obtuse?

I won't pretend to be an expert on this topic, so take this post with a grain of salt... But I saw a story recently that suggested the destruction of the Great Barrier Reef was due to climate change, and the fact that particular area of far north QLD had not had enough cyclone events to cool down the water there.

the heck.

 

[Elite Crow]

well considering we export something like three quarters of the coal we mine our coal industry contributes more than you might think, or should I say more than you can attribute to the coal we burn ourselves for electricity.

So if we stopped exporting coal, the world would stop sourcing it?

And was Brandt referring to our coal export or the local power plants?

 

[Vader]

I won't pretend to be an expert on this topic, so take this post with a grain of salt... But I saw a story recently that suggested the destruction of the Great Barrier Reef was due to climate change, and the fact that particular area of far north QLD had not had enough cyclone events to cool down the water there.

Confusing as **** really.

This is the second year running that the Great Barrier Reef has experienced a significant bleaching event. While there have been a few previous bleaching events, this is the first time it's ever happened in consecutive years. Bleaching happens because the water temperature rises to a point where the coral becomes distressed. These rising sea temperatures are largely attributed to man made climate change.

Last year there were relatively few cyclones because we were in an El Nino weather pattern, which produces a lot of dry air - cyclones need moist air to form. This year the pattern is neutral (neither El Nino nor La Nina is dominant), so the unusually low number of cyclones this season is puzzling the scientists - it may be an indicator that climate change is already further advanced than they previously thought.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/e...y/news-story/220bd07cbd24d1db32cfd2175d3ec2ac

 

[Slippery Pete]

This is the second year running that the Great Barrier Reef has experienced a significant bleaching event. While there have been a few previous bleaching events, this is the first time it's ever happened in consecutive years. Bleaching happens because the water temperature rises to a point where the coral becomes distressed. These rising sea temperatures are largely attributed to man made climate change.

Last year there were relatively few cyclones because we were in an El Nino weather pattern, which produces a lot of dry air - cyclones need moist air to form. This year the pattern is neutral (neither El Nino nor La Nina is dominant), so the unusually low number of cyclones this season is puzzling the scientists - it may be an indicator that climate change is already further advanced than they previously thought.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/e...y/news-story/220bd07cbd24d1db32cfd2175d3ec2ac

So what's Bandt et al talking about

 

[Mego Red]

I didn't listen to Brandt because the guy is a ********, but did he have a go at Turnbull for coal? If that's the case he's blaming Turnbull for contributing to climate change and cyclones. Ok then how much has Australias coal industry contributed to climate change? Compared to what the rest of the world is up to, I dare say if we shut down all coal it won't have an impact on climate change at all.

So you are as full of it as Brandt.

I don't think you solve any problem by shrugging your shoulders and saying "I'm just the little guy, someone else has to solve this."

On man-made climate change, China and India are making massive infrastructure changes to try and address their role in where we find ourselves. I think it only works if everyone does that.

 

[Vader]

So what's Bandt et al talking about

Global warming results in fewer cyclones, but those which do form are expected to have greater severity - causing greater damage when they come ashore.

 

[WCE1987]

Government discussing its Corp Tax Bill this week! Listening to the radio labor are only going to support a cut for businesses up to 2million.

Thoughts? Do you support it? Do you think It will pass? What would seem like an acceptable compromise? What cross benchers are going to be help get this over the line?

Below is a screen shot of the proposal

 

[WCE1987]

I don't think you solve any problem by shrugging your shoulders and saying "I'm just the little guy, someone else has to solve this."

On man-made climate change, China and India are making massive infrastructure changes to try and address their role in where we find ourselves. I think it only works if everyone does that.

True, I also don't think it helps when Brandt uses fear mongering by bringing it up at times where as Vader said 'there is no context' to that situation. This leads to re-active policy, instead of intelligent pragmatic long term planning.

Agreed also even if we are not a big contributor to the problem it doesn't mean we can't play a big part in solving it as we will be impacted by it.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Government discussing its Corp Tax Bill this week! Listening to the radio labor are only going to support a cut for businesses up to 2million.

Thoughts? Do you support it? Do you think It will pass? What would seem like an acceptable compromise? What cross benchers are going to be help get this over the line?

Below is a screen shot of the proposal
View attachment 351138

Looks like the usual bullshit to me. Tax the wealthy less and the benefits will trickle down right? Guys?

 

[WCE1987]

Looks like the usual bullshit to me. Tax the wealthy less and the benefits will trickle down right? Guys?

Not a fan of the term 'trickle down economics' as it's more of a characterisation, then an actually economic theories name.

I think in a closed domestic market it could appear as what they're suggesting is 'trickle down' economics, however in the international market we need to keep Australian business competitive. It's complex because on the international market our big companies are competing so they would need tax breaks to stay relevant, and at the domestic market small business need breaks to compete against big business and international suppliers like online clothing.

My guess is the cross bench will get the 10 million and under cut through, but a cut to all business's wont happen.