Season 2017
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wimmerawarrior
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- Feb 9, 2014
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I
Watched MM yesterday, they are definitely the flag favourites now. Horsham were completely outclassed, and should have been blown away by even more if the Burras had kicked straight in the 3rd term. Horsham and Stawell both only managed to kick one goal each after half time in the last 2 games against MM.
Pretty scary for opposition clubs as were missing J Del, McGrath, Garth and T Del
Watched MM yesterday, they are definitely the flag favourites now. Horsham were completely outclassed, and should have been blown away by even more if the Burras had kicked straight in the 3rd term. Horsham and Stawell both only managed to kick one goal each after half time in the last 2 games against MM.
Pretty scary for opposition clubs as were missing J Del, McGrath, Garth and T Del
Great news for the comp and lets hope they can get it done in September. Would be an exceptional achievement for a small town team to beat the population blessed horsham based teams. Hopefully better equalisation measures come in next year...horsham teams have had it too easy for way too long. I sometimes dream of how great and interesting this league would be minus the two horsham teams
jwshrive
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- Feb 20, 2015
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- Essendon
My personal view is that I can't see either the salary cap nor points system having a major impact on either the WFL or HDFL from an equalisation standpoint. I might be wrong long term, but I fear we'll lose at least two more clubs from the area shortly enough 
I think you could be right there about losing a team or two soon unfortuneatly.My personal view is that I can't see either the salary cap nor points system having a major impact on either the WFL or HDFL from an equalisation standpoint. I might be wrong long term, but I fear we'll lose at least two more clubs from the area shortly enough
Points and salary cap will only hurt smaller clubs who are struggling for numbers already and rely on recruiting non locals just to get 2 teams on the park each week and advantage the bigger clubs who have a much better population base hence more juniors coming through, more jobs in town to keep them later on etc.
No easy solution but surely any strategy that helps smaller clubs survive is better than the current proposed points and cap models that will only force them to fold in the near future.
jwshrive
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- Feb 20, 2015
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I'm still a fan of a promotion/relegation system between the two leagues. It isn't perfect, and there'd still possibly be issues with netball and juniors, but the smaller clubs getting flogged each week are only going to find it harder and harder attract players and volunteers. It's a very hard rut to climb out of, much like United in their final seasons.
Not sure your giving due credit to the Horsham teams who have invested many hours in their juniors. Population a big advantage but you still have to have a well run system , united are an example of what happens t clubs with little support. I think the demons and saints have set the benchmark and it's now up to the other teams to catch them , just like the M/M are you his year.
They (horsham teams) are well oiled machines and have obviously created an environment that makes their juniors want to hang around and with more jobs in the area it helps a bit also so credit to them for that.
Horsham teams have dominated the comp for a decade and a half...Demons won 10 in a row, saints a couple plus numerous gf appearances with only a dimboola team riddled with a horsham based success plan taking 1 premiership away from them in the last 15 odd years. League needs to find a way to make itself more competitive and even across the board. It could start by sending up the two grand finalists from hdfl and make them both 10 team comps in 2018
Yep agree an even vo
yep agree an even comp better for all concerned. This year looking better. Even the bottom teams competitive when compared to disttict league where we see 30 plus goals on a regular occurance.
- Mar 28, 2008
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- Geelong
Billy Lloyd back for the Dee's for the rest of the year from the SANFL.
http://www.mailtimes.com.au/story/4811337/wimmera-football-to-be-reviewed/?cs=226
More talk of this review. Hopeing for strong leadership with clear decision, direction for clubs, change and implementation before season 2018.
Provided all clubs in wimmera and hdfl can continue lets get two leagues of 10 clubs with promotion of grand finalists and demotion of bottom two teams between leagues.
To facilitate this Hdfl grand finalists for this year-Giants and harrow balmoral forced to go up in 2018 whether they like it or not.
This only works if it is just these two leagues getting adjusted....however
Things that could complicate this and require consideration to the future of country footy in western victoria would include north central football league clubs and clubs on the edge of kntfl such as border districts and kaniva.
If all of these leagues above are restructured i think these kntfl clubs all need to playing in victoria firstly and if necessary make 3 divisions of approxiamately 8 or so clubs and call it western victoria div 1, 2 and 3. Again with promotion relegation at end of season.
Just an idea and i can hear people potentially sooking about travel already but i beleive passionate people in the country will drive 3 hours to play occassionally if thats what it takes to keep their town and club alive.
Something needs to be done very soon or more clubs will fold.
Interested in seeing what changes if any are made before next year or if its just all talk. Also interested in any other peoples thoughts and ideas as with dwindling player and volunteer numbers i think the situation in many small communities is critical already.
More talk of this review. Hopeing for strong leadership with clear decision, direction for clubs, change and implementation before season 2018.
Provided all clubs in wimmera and hdfl can continue lets get two leagues of 10 clubs with promotion of grand finalists and demotion of bottom two teams between leagues.
To facilitate this Hdfl grand finalists for this year-Giants and harrow balmoral forced to go up in 2018 whether they like it or not.
This only works if it is just these two leagues getting adjusted....however
Things that could complicate this and require consideration to the future of country footy in western victoria would include north central football league clubs and clubs on the edge of kntfl such as border districts and kaniva.
If all of these leagues above are restructured i think these kntfl clubs all need to playing in victoria firstly and if necessary make 3 divisions of approxiamately 8 or so clubs and call it western victoria div 1, 2 and 3. Again with promotion relegation at end of season.
Just an idea and i can hear people potentially sooking about travel already but i beleive passionate people in the country will drive 3 hours to play occassionally if thats what it takes to keep their town and club alive.
Something needs to be done very soon or more clubs will fold.
Interested in seeing what changes if any are made before next year or if its just all talk. Also interested in any other peoples thoughts and ideas as with dwindling player and volunteer numbers i think the situation in many small communities is critical already.
jwshrive
Debutant
- Feb 20, 2015
- 117
- 19
- AFL Club
- Essendon
As you said, I think clear strong leadership is the key here. Clubs and players should be consulted, but ultimately they need to be told "this is the way it's going to be".
I am an advocate of the promotion/relegation system between the two leagues and the balancing out of of club numbers. It's hard enough for all clubs to find players, but if your club is getting flogged every week it's even harder again.
As has been mentioned in the past though, promoting the HDFL Grand Finalists from the football might not work out for the netball. You could try doing it based on the club championships from each league, but that could also become complicated. I haven't looked into it, but I'd be interested to know how often promoting a strong Senior football side would have also resulted in promoting a weak A Grade netball team. I have a feeling that over the past few years that would not have happened.
Of course, this would rely on clubs and players having the right attitude as well. They should not just be content with a HDFL flag if their side would be good enough to compete in the WFL - but how many clubs and players would be just happy with playing finals in the WFL when they otherwise could have won the flag in the HDFL?
Last year's HDFL result is perhaps a good example here and I think the leagues (or higher up) were not strong enough in insisting that the Giants go into the WFL. The Giants argued that within a couple of years they'd be back with the pack - however, if we'd had some long-term vision back then, the Giants could have been told that within two years there'll be a promotion/relegation system and at that point, if you're not longer competitive, you would go back a league.
And perhaps it wouldn't have to be a hard and fast rule that two clubs go up and two clubs go down. It would be the easiest to manage, but maybe each year it could be up to the higher powers to look at all of the results and make the decision on who needs to move (if anyone). Clubs might choose to make submissions on why they should or should not go up or down, but ultimately they would need to be told "this is what you are doing". In that regard, credit still needs to go to Horsham Saints for making that move many years ago and actually taking on the challenge.
I like the idea of bringing in the KTNFL clubs for possibly three divisions. Of course, that could make for some very long drives in football (Ararat to Kaniva wouldn't be fun). That in itself would require some creative thinking - maybe for those matches the U14s could play under lights after the Seniors? It would at least save families getting up before 6am just to get to the football on time (and give the young fellas a better crowd).
I feel the problem is that about three years ago we were told major changes could be coming in 2018 (possibly a complete league reshuffle), but they wanted to introduce the points system and salary cap first. Now that 2018 is basically upon us, it's too late for any major restructure and it's too early to tell if either of those systems will have an impact. But if we wait to see if the points and salary cap change the dynamics within leagues we'll be waiting too long and we'll lose clubs in the meantime. Therefore, I feel we at least need to give promotion/relegation a go and unlike the salary cap clubs need the full plan and information almost 12 months in advance so they could plan accordingly.
In regards to player numbers, the recent Census data is telling. I've only looked for Nhill, but there is a drop in population for people between 18 and 30 - ie, prime sporting age. There's not the jobs here and thus people need to leave for university and employment. Horsham in general has a drop as well, but it's certainly not as significant as the outlying towns. I think this is what some of the Horsham based clubs struggle to understand - they wonder why weaker clubs need to spend so much money to recruit; but ultimately it's a pretty simple numbers game.
If you were to have a promotion/relegation system, the lower tier could only play 16 a side in all grades, which might help to slightly alleviate the numbers issue. However, gone at the days where people actually have to go to the footy to catch up with their mates. You can do that online any time you like, and playing computer games is a common social past time for the age group of players that all sports need (summer and winter). It's not just football that's suffering, it's everything.
And this leads into the problem with volunteers. Less players means less volunteers and it also means less past players to take on the big roles of committee members and executive positions. And these positions get harder and harder to complete as more and more paperwork is required and it becomes harder to get players thus people are less inclined to be involved because it's more work. Thus it snowballs.
So how do clubs, especially struggling clubs, encourage more people to pull the boots on? That's the million dollar question that I don't think anyone has a clear answer for. But if clubs just keep taking from each other, instead of finding new blood, then we can expect a number of new mergers, possibly before this decade is out
I am an advocate of the promotion/relegation system between the two leagues and the balancing out of of club numbers. It's hard enough for all clubs to find players, but if your club is getting flogged every week it's even harder again.
As has been mentioned in the past though, promoting the HDFL Grand Finalists from the football might not work out for the netball. You could try doing it based on the club championships from each league, but that could also become complicated. I haven't looked into it, but I'd be interested to know how often promoting a strong Senior football side would have also resulted in promoting a weak A Grade netball team. I have a feeling that over the past few years that would not have happened.
Of course, this would rely on clubs and players having the right attitude as well. They should not just be content with a HDFL flag if their side would be good enough to compete in the WFL - but how many clubs and players would be just happy with playing finals in the WFL when they otherwise could have won the flag in the HDFL?
Last year's HDFL result is perhaps a good example here and I think the leagues (or higher up) were not strong enough in insisting that the Giants go into the WFL. The Giants argued that within a couple of years they'd be back with the pack - however, if we'd had some long-term vision back then, the Giants could have been told that within two years there'll be a promotion/relegation system and at that point, if you're not longer competitive, you would go back a league.
And perhaps it wouldn't have to be a hard and fast rule that two clubs go up and two clubs go down. It would be the easiest to manage, but maybe each year it could be up to the higher powers to look at all of the results and make the decision on who needs to move (if anyone). Clubs might choose to make submissions on why they should or should not go up or down, but ultimately they would need to be told "this is what you are doing". In that regard, credit still needs to go to Horsham Saints for making that move many years ago and actually taking on the challenge.
I like the idea of bringing in the KTNFL clubs for possibly three divisions. Of course, that could make for some very long drives in football (Ararat to Kaniva wouldn't be fun). That in itself would require some creative thinking - maybe for those matches the U14s could play under lights after the Seniors? It would at least save families getting up before 6am just to get to the football on time (and give the young fellas a better crowd).
I feel the problem is that about three years ago we were told major changes could be coming in 2018 (possibly a complete league reshuffle), but they wanted to introduce the points system and salary cap first. Now that 2018 is basically upon us, it's too late for any major restructure and it's too early to tell if either of those systems will have an impact. But if we wait to see if the points and salary cap change the dynamics within leagues we'll be waiting too long and we'll lose clubs in the meantime. Therefore, I feel we at least need to give promotion/relegation a go and unlike the salary cap clubs need the full plan and information almost 12 months in advance so they could plan accordingly.
In regards to player numbers, the recent Census data is telling. I've only looked for Nhill, but there is a drop in population for people between 18 and 30 - ie, prime sporting age. There's not the jobs here and thus people need to leave for university and employment. Horsham in general has a drop as well, but it's certainly not as significant as the outlying towns. I think this is what some of the Horsham based clubs struggle to understand - they wonder why weaker clubs need to spend so much money to recruit; but ultimately it's a pretty simple numbers game.
If you were to have a promotion/relegation system, the lower tier could only play 16 a side in all grades, which might help to slightly alleviate the numbers issue. However, gone at the days where people actually have to go to the footy to catch up with their mates. You can do that online any time you like, and playing computer games is a common social past time for the age group of players that all sports need (summer and winter). It's not just football that's suffering, it's everything.
And this leads into the problem with volunteers. Less players means less volunteers and it also means less past players to take on the big roles of committee members and executive positions. And these positions get harder and harder to complete as more and more paperwork is required and it becomes harder to get players thus people are less inclined to be involved because it's more work. Thus it snowballs.
So how do clubs, especially struggling clubs, encourage more people to pull the boots on? That's the million dollar question that I don't think anyone has a clear answer for. But if clubs just keep taking from each other, instead of finding new blood, then we can expect a number of new mergers, possibly before this decade is out
Thats a very narrow sighted view Oldbomber. I don't think you have considered how a Football Netball Club really works. Travelling teams are arriving at their destinations from around 8.30am for junior football and netball. Doesn't matter how passionate you are 3 hours travel is ridiculous. And a promotion relegation system based only on Senior football performance could have a disastrous impact on Netball results and junior football. A promotion relegation system could also see a club move between divisions then impact volunteers, player numbers and moral, having had success then potentially finishing bottom of the ladder in many grades the very next season. Promotion/Relegation should not be automatic every season, perhaps every 2-3 years based on Criteria obviously weighted heavily towards senior footy but still a club performance, facilities and governance. There will have to be some mergers to address dwindling player/volunteer numbers as well.
Yeah it is a bit narrow sighted my view hence why i am interested to see, hear other peoples thoughts and ideas but again they are just two options i beleive could even up playing fields and prolong the life of clubs and small communities.
Yes netball might suffer along with certain grades of football juniors etc but you are never going to get it perfect for everyone and my opinion is A grade football is priority if and when leagues are readjusted.
Clubs need success or atleast a chance of it hence why i beleive in promotion relegstion so strongly.
District league is a bit of a sham this year with giants a long way ahead and handing out floggings week in week out and clearly should have gone to WFL.
As for the travel yes it could be huge but it can be done...coober pedy used to travel 900km return every week to play in old woomera football league denied home games for many years because other clubs did not want to travel and they did it.
Another idea i have heard floated to ease the burden on travel by a commissioner was if kaniva were to come to WFL last year to play ararat v kaniva in horsham for their games.
Lots of ideas out there, none of them going to keep everyone happy but the right one might ensure clubs and communities keep their heads above water putting teams on the park enjoying their weekend sport as long as possible.
jwshrive
Debutant
- Feb 20, 2015
- 117
- 19
- AFL Club
- Essendon
I do like the idea of a middle neutral ground for those times the travel might be too far - it's certainly doable, and has been done in the past for other reasons such as drought.
I also agree that you won't be able to align the juniors up properly with senior football or netball. Even within the WFL there's already a massive imbalance. Unfortunately I think that is a separate problem.
I also agree that you won't be able to align the juniors up properly with senior football or netball. Even within the WFL there's already a massive imbalance. Unfortunately I think that is a separate problem.
Not sure what advantage a relegation system is. It is not going to fix a lack of player numbers or volunteers for those clubs that are struggling. Also the grades would all need to be aligned. The Wimmera league is actually in pretty good shape. Not many blowouts between top and bottom teams.
Issues in district league need to be looked seperatley. Clubs that are struggling and need to look at amalgamations whist they still have some bargaining chips. Horsham united left it too late and are now non exsitent.
Why not pimp and kalkee, Taylor's lake and laharum and quant and natimuk. Rub may have missed the boat when they could have merged with Murtoa years ago.
Clubs need to look at 5 - 10 years into the future as the saints and Minnie Muto a did years ago. Short term solutions won't work. The giants hated each other when they played against each other and now seem to be very united.
Issues in district league need to be looked seperatley. Clubs that are struggling and need to look at amalgamations whist they still have some bargaining chips. Horsham united left it too late and are now non exsitent.
Why not pimp and kalkee, Taylor's lake and laharum and quant and natimuk. Rub may have missed the boat when they could have merged with Murtoa years ago.
Clubs need to look at 5 - 10 years into the future as the saints and Minnie Muto a did years ago. Short term solutions won't work. The giants hated each other when they played against each other and now seem to be very united.
Definitely too many teams. There needs to be some mergers first and then the division one / division two scenario.
They would need to work out some sort of points system (similar to Champion Club award) that was a bit more comprehensive to assist working out who played where.
Great point about the numbers. When things get desperate its a possibility to play 16 a side weather its juniors or A grade or if required even further reduce numbers. I would rather see that than lose kids to other sports because a town no longer has a footy club. Commision talked about bringing this into district league A grade a couple of years ago but it got shut down real quick.
- Mar 28, 2008
- 3,084
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- Geelong
Burras tightened in flag favouritism with another win over the Demons? Shoulder injury to Billy Lloyd could be a big concern for the Dee's chances of upsetting the League leaders come finals time?
N
ot sure why Horsham should get a final every year, 8 clubs and 6 finals mean someone needs to miss out and the Demons haven't miss d out much if at all,over the years. Dimmy great spot for a granny , plenty of room and the bank around the oval great to watch from
