Hird To Present Norm Smith Medal at 2017 Grand Final

[Beer n Skittles]

Never quite worked out how all the nutters are so adamant that it's the athletes responsibility and thus the players are to blame and deserve their suspension

At the same time it's all Hirds responsibility to have known everything and he should pay for life

Work that out

Our justice system goes after drug dealers. But they weren't responsible for injecting into the users. What is going on!?

Do you just go through life constantly shocked to be sitting here, because you can't grasp simple concepts?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Lol

AOD again... I thought we passed that years ago

Clearly not

And yet you call others nutters, omg

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Our justice system goes after drug dealers. But they weren't responsible for injecting into the users. What is going on!?

Do you just go through life constantly shocked to be sitting here, because you can't grasp simple concepts?

Nah, I have a complete and clear idea of Hirds role in everything.

As do ASADA and WADA.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Nah, I have a complete and clear idea of Hirds role in everything.

As do ASADA and WADA.

So you're aware that he, Dank, and the players were complicit in the drug cheating at Essendon?

Before you weren't even aware that more than 1 person can be responsible for something, so congrats on your huge leap in cognitive ability.

 

[Chief]

Actually I hope it happens.

The Photoshop comp thread afterwards will go right off.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Chief]

Nah, I have a complete and clear idea of Hirds role in everything.

As do ASADA and WADA.

What was the AOD project? The revenue streams?

 

[Percel]

only reason anyone would even go to a GWS vs Adelaide GF would be to see Hirdy.

Not even sure he would even want to be present for those two minnow teams.

Would be tough for him to get awy from peddling confectionary to old EFC women

 

[DapperJong]

Actually I hope it happens.

The Photoshop comp thread afterwards will go right off.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

harmless lols

 

[Bunk Moreland]

What was the AOD project? The revenue streams?

Yawn

 

[Satan]

Yawn

Max?

 

[rumply]

100 pages before Hirdy presents or gtfo

 

[Scoopar]

This type of infantile credulity is normally only seen in Essendon supporters.........

Is that you James?

Infantile credulity? Oh really? Unlike you, I actually look at the facts based on the evidence.

So you know for a fact that James Hird personally injected the players? He stuck the needles in himself did he? Wow you've just taken a quantum leap far beyond what ASADA, the AFL and every other investigation has proven. Good for you Columbo.

He's paid his price for his role as coach in the drug scandal and now time to move on. He's on the podium as a former NS medallist. He'll be there for a couple of minutes, hand over a medal and that will be it. I can't see what the problem is.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I'm open to most of the uncharitable versions of what happened in 2012/2013 at Essendon, and the one thing that I find so fascinating is the conviction of so many around a scenario posited on the basis of two different pieces of data - possibly connected, but unproven to be so.

One, of course, is a single line of an SMS, presented without context - indeed without even confirmation of who the key actors even are; and the other is the revelation that Dank allegedly passed on (without consent) the case notes of 4 EFC players for a patent application by Metabolic Pharmaceuticals.

The SMS read as follows:

We've financials ready for you and David for AOD project. These financials cover all possible revenue streams where the project applies.

One single SMS - just 21 words - sent from Stephen Dank to James Hird, with no further context.

Why did Stephen Dank send this to Hird? It's certainly an interesting question. But who is David? Is it David Evans, Club chairman, Hird boss and alleged participant in a meeting about investing with the company who created AOD? Or is it David Kenley, CEO of Metabolic Pharmaceuticals, the very same company referred to in the previous line? Who can say? No-one, on any information I've ever seen; and both are equally as possible given that the alleged meeting and subject matter had both David's involved. But this is almost always glossed over or ignored for some reason.

The other compelling piece of data is the revelation uncovered by the redoubtable investigative journalists McKenzie and Baker, that 4 "professional footballers" referred to in a patent application by Metabolic were in fact EFC players, details provided sans consent, which raises the spectre that EFC players were unwittingly part of a clinical trial orchestrated by persons unknown, but presumably at least run by Stephen Dank at the remit of Calzada and Metabolic.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...layers-secretly-passed-on-20130729-2qu51.html

It really does have the most wonderfully fertile ingredients for a grand conspiracy theory doesn't it? It's ticks all the boxes: Dark hints at a secret plan. Impossible to prove scenarios that yet feel so truthy. Systematic manipulation of events by a shadowy cabal of untouchable elites. Hidden forces at work below the line of sight of the ordinary man or woman.

Psychology Today succinctly discusses this tendency and how it's inherently shaped, below:

One reason I generally have trouble accepting conspiracy theories is that they're usually based on far-fetched claims that are nearly impossible to disprove, or prove. My skepticism is further strengthened by the fact that we humans have an assortment of cognitive biases that can distort our judgments and allow us to maintain beliefs despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Some of these biases include the tendency to see patterns where none exist, and to interpret new information and recall old information in ways that confirm our expectations and beliefs. However, most of the time we're unaware of these biases and overly confident that our perceptions represent the objective truth.

I guess the thing that interests me most out of all of this is that here we are, some 5-6 years after the events, and even almost 2 years since the resolution of the larger issue around Essendon's systematic doping attempt (which I readily concede occurred - other don't) and we're no closer to knowing anything more about this whatsoever.

Even more so, despite all the darkly hinted at consequences that this would surely bring about, there has been absolutely zero consequences (that we know of) for any of the major players allegedly involved, with respect to "the AOD project". Which is strange, because so many people were utterly convinced that there were imminent developments, but they've just... never quite occurred.

Which is another glaring signpost pointing down the road to conspiracy theory, any fair-minded person would have to think.

And yet here we are as an related talking point to this flares up again, and the theorists are out in force, still convinced of the essential correctness of their position, but still based entirely on the two possibly connected data points described above.

So what do you think? Is it a conspiracy theory? Or, despite it ticking every box there is to tick, is this one different? I guess my question is, how much store do we put in this, really?

How much value do you place on the protestations of those who, by any rational measure, are drawing conclusions that cannot be supported without a healthy dose of confirmation bias and conclusions drawn by only fragments of information?

I'm not sure. It's compelling! No doubt about it. And I for one have been forced to examine some of my own cognitive biases over the past few years, so I wouldn't discount even the most salacious of interpretations outright.

But whether it's true or not, it literally ticks all the boxes of being a conspiracy theory. And, without any kind of actual data, or even at a minimum a self-aware examination of exactly what data you are drawing on and how you are using it posit a broader theory, I don't really know how you can call it anything other than noise; and as such does it even have any bearing on this conversation?

Or is that what they want you to think?

 

[MaddAdam]

Now I understand that it is "Hird's turn" with what the AFL were doing in terms of who presents the medal, I don't have an issue with him presenting this year's medal.

He can't be erased from history and he was an absolute champion of the game onfield.

If it were a "special thing" to try and rehabilitate him, I'd have issues, but this is fair enough.

He's paid the price for what happened at Essendon in 2013, seems like he's paid quite the personal price.

He won a Norm Smith fair and square so to take this away from him now would amount to unfair punishment.

 

[MaddAdam]

I'm open to most of the uncharitable versions of what happened in 2012/2013 at Essendon, and the one thing that I find so fascinating is the conviction of so many around a scenario posited on the basis of two different pieces of data - possibly connected, but unproven to be so.

Dank ain't talking beyond that and defamation law being what it is, and good journalistic practice, folks won't print without firm proof.

I suspect however one day we'll find out the truth there.

 

[rumply]

Now I understand that it is "Hird's turn" with what the AFL were doing in terms of who presents the medal, I don't have an issue with him presenting this year's medal.

He can't be erased from history and he was an absolute champion of the game onfield.

If it were a "special thing" to try and rehabilitate him, I'd have issues, but this is fair enough.

He's paid the price for what happened at Essendon in 2013, seems like he's paid quite the personal price.

He won a Norm Smith fair and square so to take this away from him now would amount to unfair punishment.

Who are you & what have you done with MaddAdam?

 

[rumply]

I'm open to most of the uncharitable versions of what happened in 2012/2013 at Essendon, and the one thing that I find so fascinating is the conviction of so many around a scenario posited on the basis of two different pieces of data - possibly connected, but unproven to be so.

One, of course, is a single line of an SMS, presented without context - indeed without even confirmation of who the key actors even are; and the other is the revelation that Dank allegedly passed on (without consent) the case notes of 4 EFC players for a patent application by Metabolic Pharmaceuticals.

The SMS read as follows:



One single SMS - just 21 words - sent from Stephen Dank to James Hird, with no further context.

Why did Stephen Dank send this to Hird? It's certainly an interesting question. But who is David? Is it David Evans, Club chairman, Hird boss and alleged participant in a meeting about investing with the company who created AOD? Or is it David Kenley, CEO of Metabolic Pharmaceuticals, the very same company referred to in the previous line? Who can say? No-one, on any information I've ever seen; and both are equally as possible given that the alleged meeting and subject matter had both David's involved. But this is almost always glossed over or ignored for some reason.

The other compelling piece of data is the revelation uncovered by the redoubtable investigative journalists McKenzie and Baker, that 4 "professional footballers" referred to in a patent application by Metabolic were in fact EFC players, details provided sans consent, which raises the spectre that EFC players were unwittingly part of a clinical trial orchestrated by people unknown, but presumably at least run by Stephen Dank at the remit of Calzada and Metabolic.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...layers-secretly-passed-on-20130729-2qu51.html

It really does have the most wonderfully fertile ingredients for a grand conspiracy theory doesn't it? It's ticks all the boxes: Dark hints at a secret plan. Impossible to prove scenarios that yet feel so truthy. Systematic manipulation of events by a shadowy cabal of untouchable elites. Hidden forces at work below the line of sight of the ordinary man or woman.

Psychology Today succinctly discusses this tendency and how it's inherently shaped, below:



I guess the thing that interests me most out of all of this is that here we are, some 5-6 years after the events, and even almost 2 years since the resolution of the larger issue around Essendon's systematic doping attempt (which I readily concede occurred - other don't) and we're no closer to knowing anything more about this whatsoever.

Even more so, despite all the darkly hinted at consequences that this would surely bring about, there has been absolutely zero consequences (that we know of) for any of the major players allegedly involved, with respect to "the AOD project". Which is strange, because so many people were utterly convinced that there were imminent developments, but they've just... never quite occurred.

Which is another glaring signpost pointing down the road to conspiracy theory, any fair-minded person would have to think.

And yet here we are as an related talking point to this flares up again, and the theorists are out in force, still convinced of the essential correctness of their position, but still based entirely on the two possibly connected data points described above.

So what do you think? Is it a conspiracy theory? Or, despite it ticking every box there is to tick, is this one different? I guess my question is, how much store do we put in this, really?

How much value do you place on the protestations of those who, by any rational measure, are drawing conclusions that cannot be supported without a healthy dose of confirmation bias and conclusions drawn by only fragments of information?

I'm not sure. It's compelling! No doubt about it. And I for one have been forced to examine some of my own cognitive biases over the past few years, so I wouldn't discount even the most salacious of interpretations outright.

But whether it's true or not, it literally ticks all the boxes of being a conspiracy theory. And, without any kind of actual data, or even at a minimum a self-aware examination of exactly what data you are drawing on and how you are using it posit a broader theory, I don't really know how you can call it anything other than noise; and as such does it even have any bearing on this conversation?

Or is that what they want you to think?

Holy Dooley LU, my brain just started leaking out my ears...

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Dank ain't talking beyond that and defamation law being what it is, and good journalistic practice, folks won't print without firm proof.

I suspect however one day we'll find out the truth there.

fair points, and I sincerely hope we do.

I guess one thing I'm curious about is why the impending dire consequences have never actually come to pass - thus far at least. Surely, at least in the most vivid of scenarios painted by the circumstances, there is enough there that it becomes more than being put in the too hard basket? Would you think? I would have thought so, but I could be wrong, or it could be a less colorful version of events that is the actual truth

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Holy Dooley LU, my brain just started leaking out my ears...

the truth is out there rumply

 

[MaddAdam]

Who are you & what have you done with MaddAdam?

I was always a measured voice of reason throughout the whole drug thing and if you guys had listened to me early on, you could have saved yourself a lot of heartache.

But in all seriouslyness, Hird is now in the space Carey was for me for a long time.

You can't take away what the bloke did onfield, especially when it was 20 odd years ago.

Hird isn't being asked to present a medal for ethics in coaching, it is a Norm Smith.

FFS, Shagger got to do it last year and he has a rich vein of form from threatening to chuck the draft in the bin, to having a few sherries too many etc etc.

 

[MaddAdam]

fair points, and I sincerely hope we do.

I guess one thing I'm curious about is why the impending dire consequences have never actually come to pass - thus far at least. Surely, at least in the most vivid of scenarios painted by the circumstances, there is enough there that it becomes more than being put in the too hard basket? Would you think? I would have thought so, but I could be wrong, or it could be a less colorful version of events that is the actual truth

Everyone shut the frick up shop as soon as the black ops became public knowledge.

The allegation is they were playing with serious fire - like criminal charges fire - of course everybody is keeping schtum.

Dank still knows though. I wouldn't like having a bloke like him having something like that over me.

EDIT - also, they didn't get to actually DO IT. They were planning to do it.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Infantile credulity? Oh really? Unlike you, I actually look at the facts based on the evidence.

So you know for a fact that James Hird personally injected the players? He stuck the needles in himself did he? Wow you've just taken a quantum leap far beyond what ASADA, the AFL and every other investigation has proven. Good for you Columbo.

He's paid his price for his role as coach in the drug scandal and now time to move on. He's on the podium as a former NS medallist. He'll be there for a couple of minutes, hand over a medal and that will be it. I can't see what the problem is.

Agree.

The hysteria about this is ridiculous.

 

[MaddAdam]

Ahhh, those magic days of the HTB circa 2013 - 14. The Bomber crew fighting the good fight, the motley collection - like in a WWII movie - of posters from every other team revelling in the day by day dismantling of Essendon at the moment of their greatest hubris - "Sir James and The Royal Box" assembled to lead them to glory.

The twists, the turns, the impeccable timing from from WADA to come in over the top at 11.59PM on the last day possible.

Then that magic morning when the suspensions came through.

My single favourite moment of the whole saga was the revelation that Fruce Brancis paid for Martin Hardie to go up to Fruce's place to further discuss The Greatest Injustice In History, only for Martin to bag poor old Fruce for eating microwave meals.

 

[Gough]

Ahhh, those magic days of the HTB circa 2013 - 14. The Bomber crew fighting the good fight, the motley collection - like in a WWII movie - of posters from every other team revelling in the day by day dismantling of Essendon at the moment of their greatest hubris - "Sir James and The Royal Box" assembled to lead them to glory.

The twists, the turns, the impeccable timing from from WADA to come in over the top at 11.59PM on the last day possible.

Then that magic morning when the suspensions came through.

My single favourite moment of the whole saga was the revelation that Fruce Brancis paid for Martin Hardie to go up to Fruce's place to further discuss The Greatest Injustice In History, only for Martin to bag poor old Fruce for eating microwave meals.

I've finished Francis' book on the rebel tour recently. Apart from highlighting what a mess Australian cricket was at the time, it's a self serving tale of an Apartheid apologist.

 

[rumply]

& there he is, order restored