Analysis 4 Quarter Footy

[shaky]

We currently sit in 5th position, but of all the teams currently in the top 8 we have won the least number of quarters for the year.

It has been a theme for the year to have good starts, having won 8 of our first quarters which is comparable to other top 8 teams, and then fading out in the second and particularly in the third quarters.
I was surprised how bad our second quarters have been, winning only 4 so far this year.
Our 3rd quarters, while not great having only won 7 for the year, is not as big an issue as our 2nd quarters.
Our Final quarters with 12 wins has us only behind the crows with 13.

If we are going to make finals and win them, we need to find more consistency through the whole match and stop letting teams get back into games in the second and third quarters.
Is it a problem with how the team approaches the game in the second and third quarters, or is it an inability to cope with teams that change their playing tactics after a slow start against us?

A big litmus test this week against a team that will be desperate to shore up their position in the top 4 (something we always fail to do!).

 

[RunningBounce]

Interesting analysis.

I'd suggest that with a young team playing a frenetic game style (sometimes), we are not going to often put together 4 quarters.

The long, high kick down the line to force a stoppage can be frustrating to spectators, but it does give everyone a chance to catch their breath and set-up. So do set shots on goal. Griffiths (or any other functional CHF) will help us do both these a little more. I can't see us doing much in September without it.

 

[Tigersfan35]

As long as we're winning games it doesn't matter how manny quarters we win overall imo, we're sitting in equal 4th for the amount of games we've won, not quarters.

 

[shaky]

As long as we're winning games it doesn't matter how manny quarters we win overall imo, we're sitting in equal 4th for the amount of games we've won, not quarters.

Agree, great to be winning (worries me that I sound like Charlie Sheen/Donald Trump!!), however my concern is we don't seem to be able to compete over 4 quarters and against the better teams, which are generally the ones playing in September, you won't win may games.

Given we were expected to finish bottom 4 this year by most commentators and I would suggest most of us as supporters have been pleasantly surprised by just how well we have done, we should look at this as a bit of a development year. Hopefully getting another tall forward at the end of the year will give us a better platform to truly compete for a GF appearance next year.
However, as we look like playing finals I don't care about next year at this stage, I want the team doing the best they can right now.

 

[_Wang_]

Good thread, to good for Bigfooty

#eco

 

[shaky]

Good thread, to good for Bigfooty

#eco

Well there are already a few sack dimma ones and the like....

I'll have to think hard about something that will appeal to the faceless masses!!

 

[Phar Ace]

Good analysis Shaky. It's about what I suspected - it's about what it feels like. Would be interested in something like take each team's best winning quarter out and the remaining result by ladder - in others eliminate best and worst efforts and see what we are left with.

Interesting analysis.

I'd suggest that with a young team playing a frenetic game style (sometimes), we are not going to often put together 4 quarters.

The long, high kick down the line to force a stoppage can be frustrating to spectators, but it does give everyone a chance to catch their breath and set-up. So do set shots on goal. Griffiths (or any other functional CHF) will help us do both these a little more. I can't see us doing much in September without it.

It does matter though. That is because it is such an uneven draw. So far we played the second least number of top 8 sides - surprisingly the least is Geelong. The most is Essendon and they have a lovely draw to the end of the season.

Whilst nothing in the past is the same, this season does have a bit of 2015 feel about it. Looking the goods on the ladder, but really only thereabouts. Really hope we out perform 2015 but when you look at our wins:

Carlton
Collingwood
West Coast
Brisbane
Melbourne
Essendon
North M
Carlton
Port A
Brisbane

Versus our Losses

Adelaide
Western Bulldogs
Fremantle
GWS
Sydney
StKilda

It's all quality our losses - as it was in 2015. We would probably win a final if we could only play someone in the bottom 10. Oh hang on............... we had that chance in 2013 didn't we.

 

[SavDog23]

Good analysis Shaky. It's about what I suspected - it's about what it feels like. Would be interested in something like take each team's best winning quarter out and the remaining result by ladder - in others eliminate best and worst efforts and see what we are left with.



It does matter though. That is because it is such an uneven draw. So far we played the second least number of top 8 sides - surprisingly the least is Geelong. The most is Essendon and they have a lovely draw to the end of the season.

Whilst nothing in the past is the same, this season does have a bit of 2015 feel about it. Looking the goods on the ladder, but really only thereabouts. Really hope we out perform 2015 but when you look at our wins:

Carlton
Collingwood
West Coast
Brisbane
Melbourne
Essendon
North M
Carlton
Port A
Brisbane

Versus our Losses

Adelaide
Western Bulldogs
Fremantle
GWS
Sydney
StKilda

It's all quality our losses - as it was in 2015. We would probably win a final if we could only play someone in the bottom 10. Oh hang on............... we had that chance in 2013 didn't we.

4 of those losses were under 10 points though, 3 under a goal. And we should have won them all. We were right in them until the final siren.

 

[deliberate!!]

Wow! I stand to be corrected by another form of Stats. And to think I was calling Dimma 'Half Time Hardwick' when in fact he's 'One Quarter Hardwick'.

And just like kicking goals when the game is over in 'junk time', a Hardwick Coached Team fires up for the last quarter, mostly when it is too late OR other teams have worked harder and longer in the most important 3rd Quarter. Our 3rd Quarter efforts are sub-standard for a Finals Team.

Obviously Hardwick preaches poorly at Half Time, lets the players go to sleep, or has no game plan or style after the major break, and the last quarter is just the players shitting themselves and releasing they need to do something to keep their positions for next week.

In a nutshell....what does Hardwick actually bring to this team? Zip.

Btw, don't get deluded. Most of this Season's Team are average to poor. We are no different. We beat nothing on the weekend in our Home State.
And barely won.

But as 'Tigerfan' stated we are still winning. But geez, Finals (and possibly away) are a whole different thing from this plodding year.

(P.S: Our 2nd quarter Win Stats are a disgrace!)

 

[tigerz18]

straight kicking would help with those stats.
this season -
during the 2nd and 3rd quarters - we have kicked a combined 81.108 (11 quarters won)
During the 1st and 4th quarters - combined 114.97 (20 quarters won)

game plan is working - this is where our issues lay.

Kick straight and we win more. simple

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

Our forward line stinks, this has been our problem for years. We get it in there enough, sure the quality of delivery is debatable but we should be converting a lot more.

The second quarters are damning, we should have put a lot of teams away by half time with 40 point +leads but usually we're teetering on the 10-15 point leads and this gives the opposition a massive sniff when we've used all out petrol tickets.

 

[Phar Ace]

4 of those losses were under 10 points though, 3 under a goal. And we should have won them all. We were right in them until the final siren.

That can be a blessing or a curse - depends on your perspective. Unless there are consolation points given for just missing (like a behind), they still count at losses. Honourable losses they may be.

And those honourable losses are a far cry from where we were over a decade ago and most of us would have taken these close losses any day over the thrashings. The thing is it is time to step up - to contend.

My comments have really suggested that we don't feel there yet (still), and will we ever be under this coach? I hope so, but he has been the best supported, best resourced coach in much of Richmond's past 30-40 years, and still a good many other coaches (even bloody Danny Frawley) have managed finals wins (contending).

If things are going to click, it better be soon.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

It does matter though. That is because it is such an uneven draw. So far we played the second least number of top 8 sides - surprisingly the least is Geelong. The most is Essendon and they have a lovely draw to the end of the season.

I beg to differ, i'll take a guess and say that you have worked this out on the current ladder am i right.

As for Essendon, there is no lovely draws to end seasons, in their final six they still have doggies and crows and GC away who can turn it on up there when they can be bothered, hardly lovely.

 

[shaky]

Good analysis Shaky. It's about what I suspected - it's about what it feels like. Would be interested in something like take each team's best winning quarter out and the remaining result by ladder - in others eliminate best and worst efforts and see what we are left with.



It does matter though. That is because it is such an uneven draw. So far we played the second least number of top 8 sides - surprisingly the least is Geelong. The most is Essendon and they have a lovely draw to the end of the season.

Whilst nothing in the past is the same, this season does have a bit of 2015 feel about it. Looking the goods on the ladder, but really only thereabouts. Really hope we out perform 2015 but when you look at our wins:

Carlton
Collingwood
West Coast
Brisbane
Melbourne
Essendon
North M
Carlton
Port A
Brisbane

Versus our Losses

Adelaide
Western Bulldogs
Fremantle
GWS
Sydney
StKilda

It's all quality our losses - as it was in 2015. We would probably win a final if we could only play someone in the bottom 10. Oh hang on............... we had that chance in 2013 didn't we.

Yes, I remember doing a bit of an analysis at the time of those close loses and our 3rd quarters were horrid at that time. I think since then they have addressed that, but the second quarters have slipped under the radar a bit.

straight kicking would help with those stats.
this season -
during the 2nd and 3rd quarters - we have kicked a combined 81.108 (11 quarters won)
During the 1st and 4th quarters - combined 114.97 (20 quarters won)

game plan is working - this is where our issues lay.

Kick straight and we win more. simple

tigerz18 stats on goals versus point over those quarters are interesting. I wonder from that is it simply our bad kicking (I remember a lot of easy set shots have been missed) or increased pressure from the opposition. Set shot vs general play stats would be interesting over the 2&3rd quarters.

I wonder if the second quarters is a young forward line getting excited by a fast start and blazing away too much. I will certainly be paying more attention to how we play in 2nd quarters vs our 1st quarters now.

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

We're probably the least experienced and youngest of the top 8 sides so winning the least qtrs is to be expected

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

Our forward line stinks, this has been our problem for years. We get it in there enough, sure the quality of delivery is debatable but we should be converting a lot more.

The second quarters are damning, we should have put a lot of teams away by half time with 40 point +leads but usually we're teetering on the 10-15 point leads and this gives the opposition a massive sniff when we've used all out petrol tickets.

Apart from Jack, i'd say the current forward setup is majority made up of first-3rd year players

 

[shaky]

We're probably the least experienced and youngest of the top 8 sides so winning the least qtrs is to be expected

Yes, i think you're right there. They can turn it on and kick away, but then lose it for big chunks of the game. Don't know how to deal with it when the opposition turn up the heat.

 

[Phar Ace]

I beg to differ, i'll take a guess and say that you have worked this out on the current ladder am i right.

As for Essendon, there is no lovely draws to end seasons, in their final six they still have doggies and crows and GC away who can turn it on up there when they can be bothered, hardly lovely.

Differing is good, no need to beg

The information I used was from Footywire and I believe it probably was, because anything else would be compromised early in the season.

As for Essendon I was relying on memory from TV when they say who has who to season's end. So you are telling me Essendon has just the Crows as a Top 8 team atm. (Also Nth, WB, Carl, GC and Freo) Whereas Geelong have Adelaide, Swans, Richmond and GWS to go in the Top 8 as it stands now.

Richmond have just GWS and Geelong. I know beauty lies in the eye of the beer holder, but I'd need a few to look past Essendon's run home.

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

We're probably the least experienced and youngest of the top 8 sides so winning the least qtrs is to be expected

It is but it doesn't mean that it's right... We don't have the depth. Hence why we need to go down avenues like looking at Levi casbolt *vomits in mouth*

 

[Phar Ace]

Yes, I remember doing a bit of an analysis at the time of those close loses and our 3rd quarters were horrid at that time. I think since then they have addressed that, but the second quarters have slipped under the radar a bit.


.

Just did a quicky and did Rich vs Opposition and eliminated best qtr and worst qtr for both teams (smoothing) and we had the same game results with the only exception being the Melbourne game - where we lost instead of won. All other games went the same way. I must say I was a bit surprised. Even expected one or two close ones to flip, but they all held true. In saying that our bad qtrs were pretty bad compared to the Opposition team.

So perhaps for 3 qtrs we get across the park OK - so far.

 

[Phar Ace]

Good thread, to good for Bigfooty

#eco

No, your spelling just helped

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Differing is good, no need to beg

The information I used was from Footywire and I believe it probably was, because anything else would be compromised early in the season.

As for Essendon I was relying on memory from TV when they say who has who to season's end. So you are telling me Essendon has just the Crows as a Top 8 team atm. (Also Nth, WB, Carl, GC and Freo) Whereas Geelong have Adelaide, Swans, Richmond and GWS to go in the Top 8 as it stands now.

Richmond have just GWS and Geelong. I know beauty lies in the eye of the beer holder, but I'd need a few to look past Essendon's run home.

This year is different in that anyone can beat anyone on any given day and it doesn't matter if Essendon have only 1 game against a top 8 team left because next week it could be 2.

As for who has played who in the eight least and most, i do a different formula which is based on ' at the time of playing them ' and i start it from round 3 after two games have been played, and these are my findings so far ( 15 games ).

Most games vs team in the top 8 at time of playing them = Brisbane 9 then rich,syd, melb with 8
Least games vs team in the top 8 at time of laying them = Nth Melb 3 then gc with 4

Most games vs team in the bottom 10 at time of playing them = Nth Melb 12
Least games vs team in the bottom 10 at time of playing them = Brisbane 6

 

[Phar Ace]

This year is different in that anyone can beat anyone on any given day and it doesn't matter if Essendon have only 1 game against a top 8 team left because next week it could be 2.

And Richmond should never have lost against Fitzroy in front of the Queen = how different?

As for who has played who in the eight least and most, i do a different formula which is based on ' at the time of playing them ' and i start it from round 3 after two games have been played, and these are my findings so far ( 15 games ).

Most games vs team in the top 8 at time of playing them = Brisbane 9 then rich,syd, melb with 8
Least games vs team in the top 8 at time of laying them = Nth Melb 3 then gc with 4

Most games vs team in the bottom 10 at time of playing them = Nth Melb 12
Least games vs team in the bottom 10 at time of playing them = Brisbane 6

So under Tiger Toffee rules you are saying it's possible to play 22 teams in the Top 8. And that is better because?

 

[SavDog23]

This year is different in that anyone can beat anyone on any given day and it doesn't matter if Essendon have only 1 game against a top 8 team left because next week it could be 2.

As for who has played who in the eight least and most, i do a different formula which is based on ' at the time of playing them ' and i start it from round 3 after two games have been played, and these are my findings so far ( 15 games ).

Most games vs team in the top 8 at time of playing them = Brisbane 9 then rich,syd, melb with 8
Least games vs team in the top 8 at time of laying them = Nth Melb 3 then gc with 4

Most games vs team in the bottom 10 at time of playing them = Nth Melb 12
Least games vs team in the bottom 10 at time of playing them = Brisbane 6

#lolnorf

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

Yes, i think you're right there. They can turn it on and kick away, but then lose it for big chunks of the game. Don't know how to deal with it when the opposition turn up the heat.

Yep, Showed it again in that 2nd qtr on saturday allowing the lions to kick 4 or 5 unanswered goals and bring them back into the game