The war against renewable energy

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Kwality said:
Dont agree, quibbling at best to justify the peanuts/ideologues that populate the political class, witness the mess that power generation is in on the east coast - both sides of politics are up to their armpits in it, and run the exact same pathetic argument as you above #7ham.
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Yes all political parties are populated by clowns but only the ones on the right are climate change denying dumb campaigners. Their * ups are primarily why we don't have enough generation in the NEM. They've ****ed the investment environment for new generation attempting to do the incredibly stupid task of bringing back to life stone cold dead coal generation. ******* idiots.
 
Theseventhhamster said:
Yes all political parties are populated by clowns but only the ones on the right are climate change denying dumb campaigners. Their **** ups are primarily why we don't have enough generation in the NEM. They've ****** the investment environment for new generation attempting to do the incredibly stupid task of bringing back to life stone cold dead coal generation. ******* idiots.
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& what about the knuckledraggers on the other side, equally to blame for the excesses in their claims that do every bit as much damage to developing a policy that can take Australia forward.
Note no ******* required.

The political class at their best, a waste of space.
 
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Theseventhhamster said:
Yes all political parties are populated by clowns but only the ones on the right are climate change denying dumb campaigners. Their **** ups are primarily why we don't have enough generation in the NEM. They've ****** the investment environment for new generation attempting to do the incredibly stupid task of bringing back to life stone cold dead coal generation. ******* idiots.
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that's laughable......"stone cold dead coal generation". We both want to move away from coal but let's be realistic about where we and technology is at.
 
Ripper said:
The cost of the Gas backups should be added to the cost of renewables , they are part of the whole thing.
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Interesting theory when the supporters of nuclear refuse to include the all in costs of this energy source including the required government assistance such as insurance, cleanup costs, health issues etc. Ditto coal, do we have to include the shutdown/decommissioning costs, health issues, the emergency service requirements such as the recent coal fires in the valley.
 
Elroo said:
Interesting theory when the supporters of nuclear refuse to include the all in costs of this energy source including the required government assistance such as insurance, cleanup costs, health issues etc. Ditto coal, do we have to include the shutdown/decommissioning costs, health issues, the emergency service requirements such as the recent coal fires in the valley.
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yep

we do need to consider full cost and full benefit analysis. It is a shame we don't seem to get a clear snapshot of energy markets overseas that work and don't work. Then a clear snapshot of what similar set ups would look like here.

I'm not sure what AEMO's mandate is but it feels too operational focus and lacks strategy. Perhaps they have drafted something but I can't see anything regarding the targets they are trying to achieve or a vision of what they see the energy sector will look like.
 
Power Raid said:
that's laughable......"stone cold dead coal generation". We both want to move away from coal but let's be realistic about where we and technology is at.
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I can just imagine the discussions at Boeing.. "That jet engine is unreliable and so expensive, lets never use it"... hmm not. You start to use something, money comes flooding in and R&D increases. Look at computers as a prime example.
 

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Bradesmaen said:
I can just imagine the discussions at Boeing.. "That jet engine is unreliable and so expensive, lets never use it"... hmm not. You start to use something, money comes flooding in and R&D increases. Look at computers as a prime example.
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you do appreciate, that's the reverse of "stone cold dead coal generation"

I can't wait for the day we stop using coal but to suggest it is "stone cold dead" says a lot about the mindset of the person who made that claim.

and yes re technology and investment. it usually takes ~15 years for high tech products, from the time they commercially enter the market to becoming extremely successful quality products. That's on top of the hidden 7-20 before that of ideas and invention. It is exciting times.
 
Power Raid said:
you do appreciate, that's the reverse of "stone cold dead coal generation"

I can't wait for the day we stop using coal but to suggest it is "stone cold dead" says a lot about the mindset of the person who made that claim.

and yes re technology and investment. it usually takes ~15 years for high tech products, from the time they commercially enter the market to becoming extremely successful quality products. That's on top of the hidden 7-20 before that of ideas and invention. It is exciting times.
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With the role coal exports play in the Australian economy (balance of payments & jobs), and the number of coal burning power stations being built around the world, would it not be in our interests to build a state of the art HELE power station - it could evenreplace the lost capacity to cover Hazelwood plus, and provide more certainty for the ES grid with more of the traditional power stations being closed over the next few years.
 
Kwality said:
With the role coal exports play in the Australian economy (balance of payments & jobs), and the number of coal burning power stations being built around the world, would it not be in our interests to build a state of the art HELE power station - it could evenreplace the lost capacity to cover Hazelwood plus, and provide more certainty for the ES grid with more of the traditional power stations being closed over the next few years.
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No, because they are already obsolete.
 
Kwality said:
With the role coal exports play in the Australian economy (balance of payments & jobs), and the number of coal burning power stations being built around the world, would it not be in our interests to build a state of the art HELE power station - it could evenreplace the lost capacity to cover Hazelwood plus, and provide more certainty for the ES grid with more of the traditional power stations being closed over the next few years.
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The Japanese government is moving ahead with its plans to build up to 45 new coal fired power stations.

The power plants will utilise high energy, low emissions (HELE) technology that use high-quality black coal.

Japan is the largest overseas market for Australian coal producers, taking more than a third of all exports.

Tom O'Sullivan, a Tokyo based energy consultant with Mathyos Global Advisory, said in the wake of the Fukushima nuclear disaster in 2011, Japan started importing more liquefied natural gas (LNG) from Australia.

But he said the move to more coal fired power was because coal was cheaper than LNG, and the energy security was priority for the government.​

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2017-01-31/japan-coal-power-plants/8224302
 
Kwality said:
& what about the knuckledraggers on the other side, equally to blame for the excesses in their claims that do every bit as much damage to developing a policy that can take Australia forward.
Note no ******* required.

The political class at their best, a waste of space.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about the NEM, the Libs are the ones that caused the investment paralysis with their stone age stupidity. State based Renewable Energy Targets have filled some of the gap but a lot more is needed to make up for the sabotage by Abbott and co on behalf of their sponsors. Governments, investment funds, insurers, just about everyone has now caught on to the reality of the situation. Just got to push out the last remaining morons and get on with business.
 
The war against renewable energy is being waged by those who make millions everyday using dirty, toxic, carcinogenic 19th century, early 20th century technologies who tell us that this filth that is polluting our planet is good for us, as is our 7:1 ratio of subsidies to these corporations and stockholders of these ancient technologies in comparison to renewables: that too is good for us!

The extraordinary amount of money these purveyors of ancient technologies are using to try and convince us that committing suicide is good for us knows no bounds and the progenitors of this propaganda, try ever so hard to convince us that they are on "our side".

They use the classic tactic that all conspirators use when their cover (lies) are in extreme danger of being exposed and that is, they try and paint all of those who raise the alarm bells and come up with irrefutable evidence as being the conspirators! They tell us that our common sense is really just a "conspiracy theory" when the only conspiracy being perpetrated, is by them.

We are living in the midst of a great technological revolution but it seems that the revolution in technology stops at the coal face; literally and when these defenders of ancient energy generation want to show us how "with it" they are, they trot out the "nuclear solution", not only a now ancient technology in it's own right, but something that is the most polluting and destructive of all energy generation.

The war against renewables has the most powerful of allies, Rupert Murdoch and News Corp and when you have control of the vast majority of the media in this country, then you can fight a war very viciously indeed with any and all tactics used as violently as possible.
 
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