VFL competition is a mess

[eth-dog]

I predict next year we will have a 16 team comp.
Northern Blues
Collingwood reserves
Essendon reserves
Footscray
Geelong
Box Hill Hawks
Casey Demons
Richmond reserves
North reserves
St Kilda reserves
Port Melbourne
Williamstown
Coburg
Werribee
Frankston
Sandringham

Nth Ballarat to withdraw.

If they don't readmit Frankston, it is a clear sign that the VFL is gone within five years to be replaced by an AFL reserves comp. Then again, they along with Coburb and Nth Ballarat if they remain, will fill the bottom three for eternity anyway.

Casey and Melbourne are really close to splitting

 

[PerfectFooty]

Casey and Melbourne are really close to splitting

Casey and Melbourne are no where near ending their alignment. We had the option to opt out when they were in debt, we decided to stand by them. Since then the clubs have worked well and closely together. I can't see us separating in at least the next two to three years. VitalDread

 

[eth-dog]

Casey and Melbourne are no where near ending their alignment. We had the option to opt out when they were in debt, we decided to stand by them. Since then the clubs have worked well and closely together. I can't see us separating in at least the next two to three years. VitalDread

Casey are really pissed about the end of DL. Their relationship with Melbourne is great but if Frankston doesn't get back in they'll still be the only outer south east club around. More likely that they split at this point in time but the relationship is that good that it's still a good chance they'll stay together (I'd say it's a 60/40 split)

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

If the AFL reserves did split off into their own comp, could the VFL exist as a 12-team comp with each team affiliated with a TAC Cup side, giving non-drafted kids a natural pathway into a Statewide competition?

Something like:
Casey - Power
Frankston - Stingrays
Sandringham - Dragons
Port Melb - Chargers
Box Hill - Ranges
Preston - Knights
Coburg - Cannons
Williamstown - Jets
N.Ballarat - Rebels
Geelong - Falcons
Werribee - Bushrangers
???? - Pioneers

 

[eth-dog]

If the AFL reserves did split off into their own comp, could the VFL exist as a 12-team comp with each team affiliated with a TAC Cup side, giving non-drafted kids a natural pathway into a Statewide competition?

Something like:
Casey - Power
Frankston - Stingrays
Sandringham - Dragons
Port Melb - Chargers
Box Hill - Ranges
Preston - Knights
Coburg - Cannons
Williamstown - Jets
N.Ballarat - Rebels
Geelong - Falcons
Werribee - Bushrangers
???? - Pioneers

What I'd expect to happen in that case is pretty similar with a few minor tweaks:

Port Melbourne, Willy, Oakleigh, Murray, Falcons and Bendigo go it alone, Jets to align themselves with Werribee. Bushrangers don't really have any ties to the Bees.

 

[VitalDread]

Casey and Melbourne are no where near ending their alignment. We had the option to opt out when they were in debt, we decided to stand by them. Since then the clubs have worked well and closely together. I can't see us separating in at least the next two to three years. VitalDread

Casey are really pissed about the end of DL. Their relationship with Melbourne is great but if Frankston doesn't get back in they'll still be the only outer south east club around. More likely that they split at this point in time but the relationship is that good that it's still a good chance they'll stay together (I'd say it's a 60/40 split)

From my understanding both clubs are good atm and look forward to increasing their partnership with a female team based in the south eastern suburbs, Frankston is coming back next season now that the DL is gone and Casey have already considered fielding a team in the local comp to blood talent

No concern here imo

 

[VitalDread]

If the AFL reserves did split off into their own comp, could the VFL exist as a 12-team comp with each team affiliated with a TAC Cup side, giving non-drafted kids a natural pathway into a Statewide competition?

Something like:
Casey - Power
Frankston - Stingrays
Sandringham - Dragons
Port Melb - Chargers
Box Hill - Ranges
Preston - Knights
Coburg - Cannons
Williamstown - Jets
N.Ballarat - Rebels
Geelong - Falcons
Werribee - Bushrangers
???? - Pioneers

Footscray would get Western Jets, they are based at WO
Pioneers would also work alongside N.Balla and Footscray

 

[Walshawk]

Very sad day. Will weaken the comp as well. Box Hill has really strong depth - they have 10 - 15 solid VFL players who might play half the season in seniors and half in reserves. Basically a club with 40 guys becomes a training squad of 15 guys who will now only fill-in if Hawthorn has injuries. These guys will be replaced by skinny 18 y/o hopefuls. It will lift the standard of some local clubs though.

 

[Walshawk]

From my understanding both clubs are good atm and look forward to increasing their partnership with a female team based in the south eastern suburbs, Frankston is coming back next season now that the DL is gone and Casey have already considered fielding a team in the local comp to blood talent

No concern here imo

Any VFL club that splits from an alignment is signing their death warrant - the next step is a Vic AFL reserves comp, and I doubt any club other than Port or Willi would be a chance to be included.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

From my understanding both clubs are good atm and look forward to increasing their partnership with a female team based in the south eastern suburbs, Frankston is coming back next season now that the DL is gone and Casey have already considered fielding a team in the local comp to blood talent

No concern here imo

Great, start ruining local footy now by fielding a reserves team in a senior competiton, just as the AFL has ruined the VFL.

It's like a virus.

 

[djpaulydemon]

If the AFL reserves did split off into their own comp, could the VFL exist as a 12-team comp with each team affiliated with a TAC Cup side, giving non-drafted kids a natural pathway into a Statewide competition?

Something like:
Casey - Power
Frankston - Stingrays
Sandringham - Dragons
Port Melb - Chargers
Box Hill - Ranges
Preston - Knights
Coburg - Cannons
Williamstown - Jets
N.Ballarat - Rebels
Geelong - Falcons
Werribee - Bushrangers
???? - Pioneers

I like this idea. I also like the idea of a div 1 vic/ metro comp, but i feel affiliating the TAC cup with existing VFL teams would allow the AFL to in a way fund this new comp to a small extent or at least share resources more efficiently.

If there was a VIC AFL reserves comp or National AFL reserves comp do we think list sizes would need to expand or where would clubs be sourcing the top up players from?

 

[footyfan1978]

Well what I was proposing was not bringing back the VFA as such as the old Sunday league is dead and buried forever. There actually is no role for any senior state league anymore as so my suggestion is re-purpose the role of these old VFA clubs but keep the same identity in place. I think their role would be ideal to replace the function of TAC clubs and the nursery domain for teenagers and all young 20 year old footballers still wanting to try to get drafted into AFL system.

I think if we scrap the TAC Cup in Victoria and instead create an under 21 league instead and give the role over to the VFA club identities we move into the new landscape of 21st century football but keep the identity of clubs like Port Melbourne and Williamstown alive.

If the AFL reserves did split off into their own comp, could the VFL exist as a 12-team comp with each team affiliated with a TAC Cup side, giving non-drafted kids a natural pathway into a Statewide competition?

Something like:
Casey - Power
Frankston - Stingrays
Sandringham - Dragons
Port Melb - Chargers
Box Hill - Ranges
Preston - Knights
Coburg - Cannons
Williamstown - Jets
N.Ballarat - Rebels
Geelong - Falcons
Werribee - Bushrangers
???? - Pioneers

Footscray would get Western Jets, they are based at WO
Pioneers would also work alongside N.Balla and Footscray

Footscray would not be part of it as they would be playing in the AFL club reserves grade comp.

My proposal from months ago of simply re-purposing the VFA clubs to be the nursery for all the best 16 to 21 year olds in the state would address Andrew Collins concern here....

"Williamstown coach Andy Collins, who played 212 VFL/AFL games for Hawthorn, told AFL.com.au the DL's demise "saddened" him and he slammed the decision as "reactive" and "poor".

"The DL was a huge chance for young men to mature as people and footballers, in what I would call a very boutique competition designed for 18-to-21 (year-old) kids who missed out on being drafted," Collins said.

 

[footyfan1978]

I like this idea. I also like the idea of a div 1 vic/ metro comp, but i feel affiliating the TAC cup with existing VFL teams would allow the AFL to in a way fund this new comp to a small extent or at least share resources more efficiently.

If there was a VIC AFL reserves comp or National AFL reserves comp do we think list sizes would need to expand or where would clubs be sourcing the top up players from?

AFL Clubs can use the new generation academy system to top up their own reserves side and maybe each club has an expanded list in the sense of the old supplementary lists like when Milne was playing reserves for Essendon and then got drafted to St.Kilda.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I predict next year we will have a 16 team comp.
Northern Blues
Collingwood reserves
Essendon reserves
Footscray
Geelong
Box Hill Hawks
Casey Demons
Richmond reserves
North reserves
St Kilda reserves
Port Melbourne
Williamstown
Coburg
Werribee
Frankston
Sandringham

Nth Ballarat to withdraw.

If they don't readmit Frankston, it is a clear sign that the VFL is gone within five years to be replaced by an AFL reserves comp. Then again, they along with Coburb and Nth Ballarat if they remain, will fill the bottom three for eternity anyway.

If the VFL split from the AFL teams it would significantly reduce the operating cost enough to enable North Ballarat to continue and Box Hill, Casey, to go standalone.. That leaves a 9 team competition.. Shouldnt be too hard to find another perhaps Bendigo might be keen to come back in or a Murray team.

I still think the best chance for a sustainable competition would be to merge the TAC teams with the VFL teams and the equivalent womens team.. You could then have strong clubs with there own identity sharing facilities, infrastructure and personal and coaching which would significantly reduce the overheads for each club trying to operate as individual entities.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

If the AFL reserves did split off into their own comp, could the VFL exist as a 12-team comp with each team affiliated with a TAC Cup side, giving non-drafted kids a natural pathway into a Statewide competition?

Something like:
Casey - Power
Frankston - Stingrays
Sandringham - Dragons
Port Melb - Chargers
Box Hill - Ranges
Preston - Knights
Coburg - Cannons
Williamstown - Jets
N.Ballarat - Rebels
Geelong - Falcons
Werribee - Bushrangers
???? - Pioneers

I dont think an alignment would work.. but a merge would, they need to become the 1 club and act like a club not just a pathway. The TAC teams have no history so they should take on the name of the VFA equivalent.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

If the VFL split from the AFL teams it would significantly reduce the operating cost enough to enable North Ballarat to continue and Box Hill, Casey, to go standalone.. That leaves a 9 team competition.. Shouldnt be too hard to find another perhaps Bendigo might be keen to come back in or a Murray team.

I still think the best chance for a sustainable competition would be to merge the TAC teams with the VFL teams and the equivalent womens team.. You could then have strong clubs with there own identity sharing facilities, infrastructure and personal and coaching which would significantly reduce the overheads for each club trying to operate as individual entities.

That's basically a rehash of the old VFA and would go the same way before long due to a lack of support and money.

Demographics and population have shifted and the long term future for many of the VFA clubs that remain isn't great.

The only way to have a sustainable VFA is as a local competition with promotion and relegation. Otherwise it's doomed to failure.

If it's meant to be the best league in Melbourne it needs to always feature the best clubs.

 

[Walshawk]

If the VFL split from the AFL teams it would significantly reduce the operating cost enough to enable North Ballarat to continue and Box Hill, Casey, to go standalone.. That leaves a 9 team competition.. Shouldnt be too hard to find another perhaps Bendigo might be keen to come back in or a Murray team.

I still think the best chance for a sustainable competition would be to merge the TAC teams with the VFL teams and the equivalent womens team.. You could then have strong clubs with there own identity sharing facilities, infrastructure and personal and coaching which would significantly reduce the overheads for each club trying to operate as individual entities.

BUt there would be no funding.
Box Hill and Nth Ballarat would definitely not be interested. Many of the clubs including BOx Hill, Casey and Northern are mere shells without AFL partners. There is no 'club'. Nth Ballarat would withdraw and there is zero interest from Bendigo.
These ideas are great but the clubs need $$$ and dozens of volunteers which they don't have.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

That's basically a rehash of the old VFA and would go the same way before long due to a lack of support and money.

Demographics and population have shifted and the long term future for many of the VFA clubs that remain isn't great.

The only way to have a sustainable VFA is as a local competition with promotion and relegation. Otherwise it's doomed to failure.

If it's meant to be the best league in Melbourne it needs to always feature the best clubs.

The AFL would still be funding the u18 competition like they do now, they would also tip in to fund the womens competiton so there is a semi professional pathway for elite women. There would then be a direct pathway from u18 football to senior football for those players that miss out on being drafted which would keep player payments down as clubs wouldnt be trying to compete with AFL listed players and need to pay overs to ex afl players just to compete. The overall costs would be significantly lower than the current model.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

BUt there would be no funding.
Box Hill and Nth Ballarat would definitely not be interested. Many of the clubs including BOx Hill, Casey and Northern are mere shells without AFL partners. There is no 'club'. Nth Ballarat would withdraw and there is zero interest from Bendigo.
These ideas are great but the clubs need $$$ and dozens of volunteers which they don't have.

If those clubs did not have the desire to be involved then it would simply become a senior team for the Ballarat Rebels, Eastern Rangers, Northern Knights & Bendigo Pioneers.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

If those clubs did not have the desire to be involved then it would simply become a senior team for the Ballarat Rebels, Eastern Rangers, Northern Knights & Bendigo Pioneers.

It basically already exists. Most undrafted TAC cup players go to the VFL and that will continue.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

It basically already exists. Most undrafted TAC cup players go to the VFL and that will continue.

Not now with no Development league and then if the VFL goes under and the AFL has the reserves comp there will be very few opportunities for these kids who will go back to local footy, the more talented ones might move interstate to play SANFL so that they are at least still in the eyes of potential recruiters,

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Not now with no Development league and then if the VFL goes under and the AFL has the reserves comp there will be very few opportunities for these kids who will go back to local footy, the more talented ones might move interstate to play SANFL so that they are at least still in the eyes of potential recruiters,

There's less spots, but opportunities will still exist.

At the moment there's 8 DL teams, 176 players per week.

North Ballarat are gone anyway.

But the removal of the DL should allow more VFL clubs to stand alone.

Werribee, Casey and Sandringham could go alone, so there's another 66 spots in their senior team each week.

Plus North, St Kilda and Melbourne would then require a VFL squad to cover their VFL team - say 10 - 15 players, so there's another 30 a 45 spots.

Frankston will be back so that'll be 22 more spots.

Anyway my point was there might not be formal alignments with TAC and VFL clubs but players go on to there anyway.

Reckon that those that should be playing VFL will be. In any case, at the moment most of them play a season or two of development league and then start hawking themselves to local clubs for $1000 a week because they're "ex VFL".

 

[Walshawk]

It basically already exists. Most undrafted TAC cup players go to the VFL and that will continue.

NOt true. Most undrafted TAC players are not close to being ready to step up to VFL seniors. Most play for locals clubs and those with further ambition play in the Development league.
There would be less than a dozen 2016 TAC players playing VFL seniors in any given week.

 

[Walshawk]

If those clubs did not have the desire to be involved then it would simply become a senior team for the Ballarat Rebels, Eastern Rangers, Northern Knights & Bendigo Pioneers.

You don't seem to understand what it take to run a senior club. Dozens of volunteers, committee, and hundreds of thousands of dollars. This is not even a possibility for these clubs.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

You don't seem to understand what it take to run a senior club. Dozens of volunteers, committee, and hundreds of thousands of dollars. This is not even a possibility for these clubs.

What I am saying is that the infrastructure, volunteers etc are already in place at the TAC teams so merging the VFL team would be fairly straight forward. And if say Sandringham Zebras had a senior team, a jnr team and a womens team it would feel much more like a club that people would want to belong to, so you would get trainers and the volunteers. No one is saying it is easy but i reckon it would be better than the current situation.