Analysis Pies back SSM - right or wrong?

[PonsfordMagpie]

^ Good on them. I wish Collingwood did the same thing.

 

[Kings_Gambit]

Piss weak by Carlton

Totally agree with you. Whimped out Blues!

 

[TheSierBear]

Piss Weak Carlton, scared of what the bigots think!

 

[jackcass]

Piss weak by Carlton

Seems okay to me.

 

[Dynamics]

We are committed to supporting equality.

We are committed to supporting equality.

We won't commit to supporting marriage equality because this Government made equality a personal choice (which we also support) and we don't want to piss anyone off.

PS equality.



I'd genuinely prefer no statement at all.

 

[Brent24]

Would rather Collingwood be known as a club that showed their full support on the issue. If you're going to sit on the fence like Carlton, why even make a statement?

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

^ Good on them. I wish Collingwood did the same thing.

Same.

 

[CFC2010]

Good article I thought.........


The ambition my brother abandoned because he was gay: why a 'yes' vote matters

• David Kirby

My parents had five children. Michael was the eldest, born in 1939. Then came twin boys, Donald and David, born in 1941. David died on August 9, 1942, and I was born nine months later. My sister Diana arrived in 1946.

Michael was always the dominant older brother. The only perceptible difference from the rest of us was that he was studious and ambitious. From an early age he did little else than study. We all thought that one day he would be prime minister.
In 1955 Michael saw the movie East of Eden with James Dean. He thought that he perceived, as was the fact, that Dean was also gay. He then followed the movie all over Sydney, seeing it 24 times.

He was in love with Dean. Like the rest of us, he craved love.

But, unlike the rest of us, he was obliged to resort to fantasy.

At the end of his 20s, Michael determined that the price for his ambition was too high. He faced a life in which he would never know the intimate touch of someone he loved. He abandoned any thought of politics. Not long after, he met Johan. They are still together 48 years later. They are just like any other couple. It is a privilege to be in their company.

The Kirby family, circa 1952: Jean, Don, Donald, Michael, Diana and David.
Heterosexual couples may, of course, marry, inside or outside the church. It is discriminatory to deny the same right to non-heterosexuals. Indeed, the churches would do well to recognise that human sexuality is not binary. It is a spectrum and each one of us is somewhere on that spectrum.

Michael and Johan are undecided as to whether they would marry, if the legislation were changed as a result of the postal vote. They joke that, "after 48 years, it is a bit late for the confetti". However, they believe that, like other citizens, they should have the right to marry, if that be their wish. Our family supports them in that view.

Michael Kirby and Johan van Vloten have been together more than 48 years.
What rational objection could there be to such a marriage? What business is it of others? How would it in any way jeopardise the union that may exist between others?

The suggestion by Tony Abbott that such marriages amount to "such huge change" that it "would shake society's foundations" is absurd. The same change has been adopted in 24 other countries, with a total population of 760 million people. The gruesome changes predicted have not materialised. Such fears are a debating trick, aimed at diverting attention from the simple proposition that to deny the facility of civil marriage to a minority in our community is unfair. It is an injustice that must be rectified. Gays have suffered enough. It is definitely past time to turn the page.

Although the postal survey is deeply flawed, it is important to respond by voting "yes".

David Kirby is a retired judge of the Supreme Court of NSW.

 

[Kilmo]

We are committed to supporting equality.

We are committed to supporting equality.

We won't commit to supporting marriage equality because this Government made equality a personal choice (which we also support) and we don't want to piss anyone off.

PS equality.



I'd genuinely prefer no statement at all.

Agree - I would be incredibly embarrassed to be a Carlton supporter right now.

"We support equality. Except for, you know, actually supporting equality. That's a big no-no. But we support the idea of supporting it. Or something."

 

[jathanas]

Good article I thought.........


...

Excellent read. Thanks mate.

FWIW I'm 49, white male hetero (married w' kids), white collar, a Lib voter, and generally considered conservative. Normally, I'd vote "Don't care" in these surveys.

It genuinely surprises me that people in the same socio-economic bracket who are otherwise nice, educated, & good citizens would vote NO about this.

I'm happy the club took a stance. You just have to reflect on the groups opposing marriage equality; we don't want to be like those anachronistic dinosaurs. It's the 21st century FFS.

 

[Black_White]

Piss weak by Carlton

Tegan's not gay is she?
What a waste!

 

[Black_White]

The yes vote will win easily.

Fear not folks.

The people will have spoken.

That said wishing all those who feel this issue very personally all the best and good wishes.

I'm afraid that the scare campaign, with its simple untruths, (see my previous link to the fact check, post 436) is gaining traction.
Australians love a good scare campaign.

 

[HenrikLundqvist]

Totally agree with you. Whimped out Blues!

******* spare me, how exactly did they wimp out? They've made their club's stance and mission statement for equality known to their fan base and the community.

All of this false outrage and virtue signalling for a joke of a non-binding survey that costs the public $122 million for civil rights in this day and age is laughable.

Can I call you a wimp for directing your outrage at Carlton for not explicitly instructing all of their supporters to vote YES and not the government for a disastrous mismanagement of tax payer dollars?

 

[Maggie5]

******* spare me, how exactly did they wimp out? They've made their club's stance and mission statement for equality known to their fan base and the community.

All of this false outrage and virtue signalling for a joke of a non-binding survey that costs the public $122 million for civil rights in this day and age is laughable.

Can I call you a wimp for directing your outrage at Carlton for not explicitly instructing all of their supporters to vote YES and not the government for a disastrous mismanagement of tax payer dollars?

You can call me a wimp for thinking Carton might have splinters from the fence and outrage at this government for putting the voters in this position and wasting millions of $$$, that could be directed to health or education. But then again think the word would be better directed towards those that put them in goverment.

 

[Kings_Gambit]

******* spare me, how exactly did they wimp out? They've made their club's stance and mission statement for equality known to their fan base and the community.

All of this false outrage and virtue signalling for a joke of a non-binding survey that costs the public $122 million for civil rights in this day and age is laughable.

Can I call you a wimp for directing your outrage at Carlton for not explicitly instructing all of their supporters to vote YES and not the government for a disastrous mismanagement of tax payer dollars?

I won't endorse the Government's decision to have this wasteful postal vote but I am proud the Pies made a stand. Carlton were hedging their bets.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Football clubs have no right to campaign on political issues, and Carlton are being unfailtly maligned for staying neutral.

Maybe they would have been better off saying nothing at all.

Storm in a teacup.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

CARLTON fan favourite Michael Jamison has hit out at his former AFL club’s stance on marriage equality.
The Blues released a statement on Wednesday declining to endorse the Yes Campaign on marriage equality, as Australians vote in a nation-wide postal survey on the matter.

In a short statement, the Blues declared themselves to be a “leader in engendering equality” but fell short of recommending a yes vote.

“The issue of ‘same sex marriage’ is essentially one of equality; and so the club encourages all of its people to have their say in this important national vote,” it stated.

“As a club, we respect that this is about personal choice, and as such don’t intend to campaign on the issue, but we do strongly reinforce our club’s absolute commitment to equality — and a community that is free from any form of discrimination.”

Michael Jamison has turned on his former club.Source: News Corp Australia
Jamison, who left the club at the end of last season after 150 matches, suggested it wasn’t good enough.

“You can fence sit when you are debating whether to have a twilight grand final not when it comes to equality,” he wrote on Twitter.

He went on to further explain why he was so disappointed with his former club.

Carlton AFLW star Darcy Vescio has also been a prominent campaigner for same-sex marriage.

The AFL has made clear its support for marriage equality on Wednesday, replacing the AFL logo at head office with the word “Yes”.

AFL clubs Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne and Collingwood have also pledged support for marriage equality in the past fortnight, joining long-term campaigners Sydney and St Kilda — who pioneered the annual pride game — on the issue.

Jamison wasn’t the only footy commentator to criticise the Carlton statement.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

 

[CarnMags]

I thought Gil spoke brilliantly on 360 about this issue.

“I think we’re a leader whether people like that or not and this is an issue that means a lot to many of our players, many of my employees and to many people in the community. I think our position is that we need to have a strong statement"

“People should get out and vote and have their view but this is something that actually talks to something that is a core value of ours, which is actually equality."

So I think it’s incumbent upon us to have a view. I think it’s also incumbent upon us not to lecture people, to not force it down their throat, to say: This is who we are as a brandand this is what our organisation is"

I’m on record as strongly ‘yes’. I completely respect people’s personal views, whether they be religious or otherwise, but I think it’s discriminatory to say that your and my union is different someone to elses.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/wh...y/news-story/d957881ab1ec15ad78df44e0e3f06db9

 

[jathanas]

I thought Gil spoke brilliantly on 360 about this issue.

“I think we’re a leader whether people like that or not and this is an issue that means a lot to many of our players, many of my employees and to many people in the community. I think our position is that we need to have a strong statement"

“People should get out and vote and have their view but this is something that actually talks to something that is a core value of ours, which is actually equality."

So I think it’s incumbent upon us to have a view. I think it’s also incumbent upon us not to lecture people, to not force it down their throat, to say: This is who we are as a brandand this is what our organisation is"

I’m on record as strongly ‘yes’. I completely respect people’s personal views, whether they be religious or otherwise, but I think it’s discriminatory to say that your and my union is different someone to elses.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/wh...y/news-story/d957881ab1ec15ad78df44e0e3f06db9

Agree with him 100% but I wish he didn't use "MBA speak". The content loses impact when it's delivered like that.

Words like "actually", and "incumbent" repeated too often trigger people's "politics alarm".

 

[boxy99]

I voted yes but i agree with carlton. The social justice crap in the afl has gone that far, we now have clubs putting out statements saying they dont have a opinion.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Piss weak by Carlton

I disagree: I think Carlton as a sporting organisation has done the correct thing by not taking a side in a political issue that may divide their members and supporters on their views................ like CFC have done

 

[Mkcaptain]

I disagree: I think Carlton as a sporting organisation has done the correct thing by not taking a side in a political issue that may divide their members and supporters on their views................ like CFC have done

Except they have divided their members and supporters.

I normally like to keep politics out of sports, but I don't see this as a political issue.

 

[jathanas]

Except they have divided their members and supporters.

I normally like to keep politics out of sports, but I don't see this as a political issue.

+1

I wouldn't want the club to be making statements about North Korea, but this is a civil rights/equality issue IMO.

Change is always difficult, but this is worth it.

 

[Kilmo]

I disagree: I think Carlton as a sporting organisation has done the correct thing by not taking a side in a political issue that may divide their members and supporters on their views................ like CFC have done

Anyone who is "divided" or upset by Collingwood coming out and supporting marriage equality is having a lend, getting upset at something that has no effect on them.

Anyone who is "divided" or upset by a club not supporting marriage equality likely has every reason to do so, as they may be part of a minority group who does not have equal rights (including people who work and play for these clubs), or know someone who does, or simply sympathise with those who are directly affected.

It's not a "tomato sauce in the fridge or the pantry" type question that will divide supporters. It's supporting civil rights for all australians, or not. Carlton's move was a slap in the face, and a very dated one at that.

I for one am glad Collingwood actually cares about LGBTIQ people and their families and the actual very real, very damaging effects that this has on their lives, and not just pandering to Catholics (edit: Tony Abbott-esque Catholics) and homophobes who like to tell others how to live their lives.