Roast Who is Cam Joyce?

[Grogg]

A question for the unwashed...

Just how much influence does the list manager have over the shape of a list?

Does he have respected and valued input on which way we need to draft or should draft? Or is he simply given a directive by the coach and board that this is what we want and need?

I'm guessing his actual input is minimal and if the list is unbalanced, then the blame for want of a better word sits with the coach first and foremost.

It's hard to make an informed judgement on these things though, when you're just a popcorn eater from the outer, with no inner scrotum contact.

 

[Grogg]

If we were serious about list management we would have employed Emma Quayl three years ago.

We aren't, we didn't; so we just have to suck it up.

I'd say her strength would be in talent identification rather than overall management.

 

[B4Bear]

I'd say her strength would be in talent identification rather than overall management.

As the overall manager, the identification of talent and how to manage that talent into the list is the prime requisite for the job. Everything else is administration (which I am on record as saying we seem to do poorly in regards to some de-listings).

You do not want the list manager doing the day to day crap. You want them to identify talent two years before anyone else and work out how to get them into the club. In other words manage the list.

She would have been ideal imo (never humble). I think that GWS are going to keep recruiting and slotting in the best kids in the land for years to come; a lot of that will be down to the work she does for the club, damn them to hell.

 

[Grogg]

As the overall manager, the identification of talent and how to manage that talent into the list is the prime requisite for the job. Everything else is administration (which I am on record as saying we seem to do poorly in regards to some de-listings).

You do not want the list manager doing the day to day crap. You want them to identify talent two years before anyone else and work out how to get them into the club. In other words manage the list.

She would have been ideal imo (never humble). I think that GWS are going to keep recruiting and slotting in the best kids in the land for years to come; a lot of that will be down to the work she does for the club, damn them to hell.

You're probably right. I don't know enough about her (or anything) other than she was a good reporter on the draft.

 

[Psicosis]

It's really time to be honest with ourselves. We love the s**t out of this place, but it's a tough sell for a range of factors both in and out of our control.

While I want more out of everyone, just cause someone 'has pedigree' doesn't mean they're good at their jobs. Heaps of football people don't have any.

And if anything, diversifying skill sets is better for professionalising the industry in the long run, rather than a pub league boys club.

And we're not the only club who is having issues attracting players. There's little on the market and a host of clubs will go into the next year without their needs filled.

I get everyone was excited about Martin and Kelly, but there's no need to completely lose perspective.

By diversifying skill sets do you mean appointing someone that can't do a press conference without stuttering every sentence as the face of our club?

 

[GreatBradScott]

By diversifying skill sets do you mean appointing someone that can't do a press conference without stuttering every sentence as the face of our club?

Not everyone is comfortable doing media. I've seen some of the most confident people in the world go to water when on air. It's not easy. All that matters is what goes on behind scenes.

Just cause a list manager hasn't got media 'talent', it doesn't invalidate their work. Keep in mind, he's got to sell without saying anything that gives away too much. Which means he's probably being fed lines by the comms team, which is even more nerve wracking to remember in front of a mic or camera.

So not only are you not suited to be on-air, you're also nervous about saying the wrong thing.

 

[shintemaster]

I know very little about this side of it but I would have thought talent identification is a smaller part of the list manager role than some are saying. I would imagine that the role is about assessing the short, medium and long term strengths of the list, priorities for talent within those timeframes and ensuring that salary spend allows for appropriate development of the list. What do we need, what do we already have on the list, what do we think we have developing on the list for 2-3 years down the track and tying all that together.

I may be completely off the mark.

 

[Ohhh Errol]

A much maligned 'outsider' in some circles.

 

[Horace]

I'm not quite sure we can blame just about everything on to Joyce. Pretty sure there would be a number of people working together to frame the shape of our playing list. I get a bit sick of people suggesting that because we missed out on Martin and Kelly; and since then no-one else has joined (the theory being they don't want to join) us; our brand has been trashed.

Targeting Martin and Kelly was a decision approved by the board and the people assigned to getting those two players, went out aggressively to try and get them and from the size of the contracts offered they could not have done more. Did anyone here really think that we had better than a 20/80 chance of getting Dusty and maybe a 40/60 chance of getting Kelly? I certainly didn't.

Once those two decided to stay where they are, our strategy had to change and has changed to trying to build a list with a very similar age profile. I think that is smart.

The notion that none of the present players available/mooted to be available, has not shown an interest in coming to us, says that we are not a destination club, is an absurd notion. We don't even know if any of those players has been approached by our list management team. I suspect they haven't because players such as Rockliff, Watts, Trengrove do not fit the age profile, Stringer has issues that we should not go near, while players such as Smith and Saad do not fit our primary need for midfielders. That was the need identified by the targeting of Martin and Kelly and should remain the priority, this year but also next year.

Of the other players who might be worth targetting, Schache is the one that best fits the age profile. I think he would be worth looking at, but again he is not a midfielder.

Irrespective you can't be a destination for a player to go to if the club is not interested in being the destination.

Let's wait and see what eventuates by the time the National and Pre-season Drafts are over and done with.

 

[Grogg]

A much maligned 'outsider' in some circles.

Can you expand on this at all Errol, (if you're comfortable doing so of course)?

 

[Gorman2Geister]

He's Owen's brother isn't he?

 

[Thewlis Dish]

I'd say selling the club comes down much more to the leadership group and the coaches than it does the list manager.

It's a tough business. Dusty and Kelly could both have had a change of heart at the last second after wanting to come all year, and suddenly we "can't sell the club".

 

[Thewlis Dish]

I know very little about this side of it but I would have thought talent identification is a smaller part of the list manager role than some are saying. I would imagine that the role is about assessing the short, medium and long term strengths of the list, priorities for talent within those timeframes and ensuring that salary spend allows for appropriate development of the list. What do we need, what do we already have on the list, what do we think we have developing on the list for 2-3 years down the track and tying all that together.

I may be completely off the mark.

I think you're spot on. Developing a list would come down much more to the recruiting staff for identifying players, and the coaching staff to develop them. I'd expect Joyce would have some input but not enough to carry the can, his role would be much more about overall strategy (which again would be in collaboration with coaches, recruiters etc).

That being said, I am pretty sure Lewis was heavily against getting Anderson to the club, and was overruled by Joyce and Scotts.

 

[Ohhh Errol]

#culture

I think its going to take years to undo the damage this bloke and brad have done, are doing to the fabric of the club. Some pretty average decisions have gone down headed up by those two, filled in by a day to day general stench.

We're a small club, the glue that binded us together was always the people. You piss off enough North Melbourne people through poor decisions, poor judgement, poor management, what have you got left? A sterile organisation with no....'spirit.'

 

[Firestarter]

While I'm here can anyone give me specifics on what he's supposed to have done?

 

[kaboom kid]

Everything would be a hard sell when you have Brad Scott in charge I'm tipping.

Quite the opposite is true I reckon. A big part of him getting extended was to increase our chances of getting free agents. Clearly highly rated externally, hence all the speculation.

 

[kaboom kid]

If we were serious about list management we would have employed Emma Quayl three years ago.

We aren't, we didn't; so we just have to suck it up.

Isn't she a journalist? What football clubs has she worked at?

 

[koshari]

You're probably right. I don't know enough about her (or anything) other than she was a good reporter on the draft.

oddly enough there is a huge void where she used to report, cant see any upcoming writers making an effort to fill the gap which iam somewhat surprised by, instead we have hacks like Wallace and Coons now providing the running commentary of the draft period. surely an opertunity exists for someone to take up this role going forward,

back on topic i find if pretty odd peole lining up to take potshots at joyce where here we into a 2nd page of discussions about him and the only example of something that someone may have done different would be to not have goldy on the list.

don’t get me wrong iam all for nobody being beyond reproach but cant see any real hard evidence myself that he has done to much wrong?

 

[koshari]

Isn't she a journalist? What football clubs has she worked at?

she was a journalist untill being recruited by GWS to work in their recruiting area.

 

[kaboom kid]

#culture

I think its going to take years to undo the damage this bloke and brad have done, are doing to the fabric of the club. Some pretty average decisions have gone down headed up by those two, filled in by a day to day general stench.

We're a small club, the glue that binded us together was always the people. You piss off enough North Melbourne people through poor decisions, poor judgement, poor management, what have you got left? A sterile organisation with no....'spirit.'

What is 'the damage'? What are the 'average decisions'?

 

[koshari]

#culture

I think its going to take years to undo the damage this bloke and brad have done, are doing to the fabric of the club. Some pretty average decisions have gone down headed up by those two, filled in by a day to day general stench.

'

care to give us some examples?

 

[B4Bear]

Isn't she a journalist? What football clubs has she worked at?

She was recruited by GWS a couple of years ago as a scout.

 

[Horace]

#culture

I think its going to take years to undo the damage this bloke and brad have done, are doing to the fabric of the club. Some pretty average decisions have gone down headed up by those two, filled in by a day to day general stench.

We're a small club, the glue that binded us together was always the people. You piss off enough North Melbourne people through poor decisions, poor judgement, poor management, what have you got left? A sterile organisation with no....'spirit.'

That is very strong criticism. Please elaborate.

1. What are the "pretty average decisions"?
2. What do you mean by "filled in by a day to day stench"?
3. Who are the "enough North Melbourne people pissed off?
4. Tell us what those "poor decisions, poor judgement, poor management" are.

 

[Tectonic]

And another thread succumbs to the anti-Scotts mania.

Take a look at the list when he came in, and the state of the league.
We had some very good footballers, 2 new teams in the league taking the lions share of new talent from everyone else, two horrible tanking vic teams pretty much every year.. not a great environment for us to build a list for a successful late 2010s. Everybody knew we had to have a crack with what we had, and try to get some guys in for the future where possible.

So we bring in a few top ups, and take a shot at the cup. Didn't quite get there but we got mighty close. What else were we to do? With Petrie, Spud, Boomer, Goldy, NDS all at the top of their game for a little while its not like we could have tanked.

It didn't work out but thems the breaks. We now find ourselves into an era of uncontaminated drafts, finally. Perfect time to send off the veterans, load up on kids and try to create an environment conducive to sustained success. So far it seems to all be going to plan. Kelly and Martin would have expedited things, but again thems the breaks. We are in with a good shot to get Rankine next year.

TL: DR things are travelling better than the facebook crowd would like to think, and seriously * the media flogs off. Will be interested in what they have to say in 3 years time.

 

[kaboom kid]

She was recruited by GWS a couple of years ago as a scout.

Right, OK, thanks a lot. I remember her articles particularly on the draft were very good. She clearly had a massive passion for it. That's a great move for them and possibly for her too as there's not much money in journalism anymore.