The Hawthorn 3peat: is it an accident of history?

[FreoMonocle]

The threepeat was in anomalous circumstances with the expansion to GC and GWS. You can only play the games in front of you with the cattle that you have, so this is not my being whiney, Clarkson and the team earned their wins

But with the expansion, KPF's were hoovered up, also successful clubs effectively lost a 1st round pick. The AFL did the right thing to expand, but should have only done 1 team at a time - 2 years of compromised drafts hurts a little, but 4-5 years of it was too much.

Hawthorn had the right mix of coaches, players, whatnot, but were in the perfect spot at the right time of list management for the expansion, the game is won by inches, competing teams were held back in filling areas of weakness.

 

[Jade]

The threepeat was in anomalous circumstances with the expansion to GC and GWS. You can only play the games in front of you with the cattle that you have, so this is not my being whiney, Clarkson and the team earned their wins

But with the expansion, KPF's were hoovered up, also successful clubs effectively lost a 1st round pick. The AFL did the right thing to expand, but should have only done 1 team at a time - 2 years of compromised drafts hurts a little, but 4-5 years of it was too much.

Hawthorn had the right mix of coaches, players, whatnot, but were in the perfect spot at the right time of list management for the expansion, the game is won by inches, competing teams were held back in filling areas of weakness.

Precisely.

It's not a difficult concept. It does not dilute the value of a flag - it's a simple statement of what is.

 

[blue harvest]

Still yet to hear which teams would have beaten us which year and with which picks/players, remembering we would have moved up in the draft too. Maybe because it's all bullshit.

 

[JohnZ]

The threepeat was in anomalous circumstances with the expansion to GC and GWS. You can only play the games in front of you with the cattle that you have, so this is not my being whiney, Clarkson and the team earned their wins

But with the expansion, KPF's were hoovered up, also successful clubs effectively lost a 1st round pick. The AFL did the right thing to expand, but should have only done 1 team at a time - 2 years of compromised drafts hurts a little, but 4-5 years of it was too much.

Hawthorn had the right mix of coaches, players, whatnot, but were in the perfect spot at the right time of list management for the expansion, the game is won by inches, competing teams were held back in filling areas of weakness.

Blighty is that you?

And to answer the question: Yes /thread

 

[Jade]

Still yet to hear which teams would have beaten us which year and with which picks/players, remembering we would have moved up in the draft too. Maybe because it's all bullshit.

Well now you're dealing in complete hypotheticals. It's like saying, if I give $1000 to a person on the poverty line, they'll be better off - but you'd be completely guessing as to what they'd actually DO with that currency.

However there are a couple of REAL easy suggestions.

Fremantle won, what, 8 of their last 10 H&A games in 2012, and got through to a semi.

They then actively traded their way up the draft. Whose to say in an uncompromised draft they couldn't have looked to trade in someone like Tom Hickey, who may legitimately have been the difference in the GF the next year?

Or Port Adelaide, who were IMO completely umpired out of their prelim against the Hawks (tell me again about digging deep FFS) - could they not have used the currency in the 2013 off-season to find four points worth of improvement?

Christ Hawks fans have a woefully inflated view of the actual capacity of it's side/s.

 

[blue harvest]

Fremantle won, what, 8 of their last 10 H&A games in 2012, and got through to a semi.

They then actively traded their way up the draft. Whose to say in an uncompromised draft they couldn't have looked to trade in someone like Tom Hickey, who may legitimately have been the difference in the GF the next year?

Or Port Adelaide, who were IMO completely umpired out of their prelim against the Hawks (tell me again about digging deep FFS) - could they not have used the currency in the 2013 off-season to find four points worth of improvement?

Maybe we trade up too for a better player and find 4 points improvement.

 

[Jade]

Maybe we trade up too for a better player and find 4 points improvement.

Maybe you do - or maybe, like most teams at the top, you find that equalisation favours those sides beneath you.

Reality is, whether Hawks fans like it or not, the entry of the expansion sides didn't 'help' the Hawks, it hindered the chasers.

 

[cryptor]

Ooh curses! If only Fremantle had Tom Hickey to help Aaron Sandilands and Zach Clarke further extend the 25 hitout lead they held over Max Bailey, David Hale and the rest of the Hawthorn side combined! A few more hitouts would have certainly been the difference!



Do you need a hand reaching for all that straw you're grasping at?

 

[Off The Couch]

Well now you're dealing in complete hypotheticals. It's like saying, if I give $1000 to a person on the poverty line, they'll be better off - but you'd be completely guessing as to what they'd actually DO with that currency.

However there are a couple of REAL easy suggestions.

Fremantle won, what, 8 of their last 10 H&A games in 2012, and got through to a semi.

They then actively traded their way up the draft. Whose to say in an uncompromised draft they couldn't have looked to trade in someone like Tom Hickey, who may legitimately have been the difference in the GF the next year?

Or Port Adelaide, who were IMO completely umpired out of their prelim against the Hawks (tell me again about digging deep FFS) - could they not have used the currency in the 2013 off-season to find four points worth of improvement?

Christ Hawks fans have a woefully inflated view of the actual capacity of it's side/s.

So Fremantle and Port decided to go the draft route and Hawthorn decided to go the trade route and it's the Hawks that got an advantage that others didn't. As an aside we all know what route the bombers decided to take in the lead up to the compromised draft don't we and it had nothing to do with the Hawks...... whoops my bad - yes it did, Jimmy said so

I'm presuming every club got the same emails about the expansion clubs coming that the Hawks did. Bizzarely though it seems it was only the Hawks that were in a position at that time to plan accordingly and benefit in the lead up to said compromised drafts. A better question maybe "what the * were other clubs doing in the lead up to these drafts". It's also interesting that this compromised period apparently had absolutely no impact on the Hawks - oh wait, I'm mistaken, there's another thread telling us how s**t the Hawks current list is. In the course of 4 years the Hawks played 3 different clubs - were they all in the right place at the right time as well or again is this just because the Hawks won all but 1 of them. Would Lance be asking the same question if each of those clubs had won a gf.

We get in one breath that no other clubs had the quality of franklin, hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Roughead but then have you telling us that our views on our players is overinflated. We have someone else posting that it was only through mental toughness because they certainly weren't skilled and then of course to finish it off they cop the whole home ground advantage scenario, whilst conveniently forgetting about Sydney and Geelong previously winning grand finals there in the same period.

It seems that nobody can make up their mind what exactly this anomaly is a result of.

 

[King Brown]

Had West Coast had pick 1, 17 and 18 in 2010 instead of 4, 26 and 29 it’s highly likely they would have had a more formidable team than they did in 2015.

Would they have won? Who knows. But I think they would have put up more of a fight.

 

[blue harvest]

Maybe you do - or maybe, like most teams at the top, you find that equalisation favours those sides beneath you.

Reality is, whether Hawks fans like it or not, the entry of the expansion sides didn't 'help' the Hawks, it hindered the chasers.

Not reality at all, it hindered us too.

Those sides you mention were only a few spots below us, not enough to make a difference. Equalisation takes years to flow through. We shut up shop early against Port due to the Swans having a cakewalk prelim and extra days break for the GF, a masterstroke by Clarkson tbh along with the masterpiece the next week, although he probably wasn't counting on the umps riding the Port comeback wagon so hard in the last quarter.

Reality is the compromised drafts have only started to affect the comp the last year or 2. They quite possibly cost us a 4peat.

 

[Off The Couch]

Had West Coast had pick 1, 17 and 18 in 2010 instead of 4, 26 and 29 it’s highly likely they would have had a more formidable team than they did in 2015.

Would they have won? Who knows. But I think they would have put up more of a fight.

Or maybe not

 

[King Brown]

Or maybe not

More likely than not they’d be better.

 

[Off The Couch]

More likely than not they’d be better.

Jack Watts says hi
You're basing you're entire argument on hypotheticals

 

[King Brown]

Jack Watts says hi

Luke Hodge says hi. In general West Coast have nailed their high draft picks, so I don't see the point of your argument.

You're basing you're entire argument on hypotheticals

Duh

 

[blue harvest]

Had West Coast had pick 1, 17 and 18 in 2010 instead of 4, 26 and 29 it’s highly likely they would have had a more formidable team than they did in 2015.

Would they have won? Who knows. But I think they would have put up more of a fight.

Maybe with higher picks we are even better too?

 

[Off The Couch]

Luke Hodge says hi. In general West Coast have nailed their high draft picks, so I don't see the point of your argument.

Duh

If only we had picked Chris Judd


Pick 1 - David Swallow / Pick 4 - Andrew Gaff

Pick 17 - Shaun Atley / Pick 26 Jack Darling

Pick 18 - Matthew Watson / Pick 28 Scott Lycett


Now granted the eagles may or may not have chosen differently, but it still stands that the drafts a lottery and anything can happen and the eagles did okay out of that draft. Btw in the same draft the Hawks picked up Smith (19), Hallahan, litherland, Puopolo (66) - very average recruiting

Anyway I'm bored with it all and leaving the thread. History says the Hawks won three premierships in a row and the bombers bought the game into disrepute with their systematic doping program and no amount of bleating on big footy or in the bombers case a love in in the media and at afl house is going to change those history books

 

[Blaze Storm]

The threepeat was in anomalous circumstances with the expansion to GC and GWS. You can only play the games in front of you with the cattle that you have, so this is not my being whiney, Clarkson and the team earned their wins

But with the expansion, KPF's were hoovered up, also successful clubs effectively lost a 1st round pick. The AFL did the right thing to expand, but should have only done 1 team at a time - 2 years of compromised drafts hurts a little, but 4-5 years of it was too much.

Hawthorn had the right mix of coaches, players, whatnot, but were in the perfect spot at the right time of list management for the expansion, the game is won by inches, competing teams were held back in filling areas of weakness.

This still doesn't explain why Fremantle didn't also threepeat... you guys were at the top of the competition in 2013. Ditto for Sydney.

Maybe, just maybe... the hawthorn team just played better??

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Christ Hawks fans have a woefully inflated view of the actual capacity of it's side/s.

It’s what some might call “reality”, melty.

The Cups are sitting in the cabinet.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Christ Hawks fans have a woefully inflated view of the actual capacity of it's side/s.

Don't worry mate, if Hell freezes over and by some strange accident Essendon ever win another flag, we're going to be all over Big Footy claiming Essendon are the worst premiership team ever, and how inflated the team is in the eyes of their own supporters. You know, the kind of crap we get from supporters of clubs with drug problems.

​

 

[King Brown]

Maybe with higher picks we are even better too?

Yours wouldn’t have made as much of a difference.

West Coast finished last with priority picks in 2010, they went from having pick one and two top 20 picks to pick 4 and two top 30 picks.

It makes a difference.

 

[blue harvest]

Yours wouldn’t have made as much of a difference.

West Coast finished last with priority picks in 2010, they went from having pick one and two top 20 picks to pick 4 and two top 30 picks.

It makes a difference.

Didn't they get 4, 26 and 29?
Gaff was a decent pick up, may have taken Bennel if they had pick 1 and ended in disaster. They couldn't believe Darling was still available at 26, they would have used a higher pick on him if they had it. Doubt it made much difference in the end, they got their pants pulled down in the GF.

 

[hk89]

Hawthorn had the right mix of coaches, players, whatnot, but were in the perfect spot at the right time of list management for the expansion, the game is won by inches, competing teams were held back in filling areas of weakness.

No. Hawthorn recruited 64% of their 2015 flag winning list during the compromised draft period. We were just better at filling weaknesses during the compromised draft than everyone else. Why weren't your team recruiting Lake, Burgoyne, Smith, Breust, Frawley, Hill, Hale , Gunston? Oh that's right. You were busy being held back from filling your weaknesses by the compromised draft, that must be it!

 

[HeHateMe]

Are we still discussing how hawthorn were exempt from the compromise period while the rest of the leauge suffered?

Paaaaaaah lease!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Lance Uppercut]

It's been 3 years since I've been around these parts, largely because I was sick to the stomach with the carry on of some essendon supporters.

I was hoping in the intervening years those 2 in particular would have grown up in maturity.

Sadly not the case.

IIWII