Review The Grand Final Disaster of 2017.

[tigerwill]

We clearly didnt play well enough from half way through the second.

We had our chances early in the second but missed. Had we scored those it could also have given us momentum. Likewise some of the dodgy decisions in the first half could also have impacted on momentum, instead of the ones you got and instead we get the rub of the green and our lead at half time might have been enough.

After half time the pressure and your momentum was too much and as happened in the finals series, once the game was out of reach, the losing margin blew out as the game was over.

Basically there were a few reasons we lost, didnt handle the pressure, played poorly for 2 1/2 qtrs, poor selection, injuries, not taking our chances, dodgy umpiring and playing on your home ground.

The latter can’t be underestimated. Play that at AO we win and the rest of the reasons become irrelevant. But hey that’s the AFL, it’s a dodgy competition, not that you would be complaining seeing as you benefit. Imagine if your first final was in Geelong? You’d be playing the prelim at AO and wouldn’t even have made it to the GF.

Yep some variables in all that.
Play that at AO? Well that's a hypothetical. You can't guess the result. No doubt you'd be favourites, but you were in this one as well. We all know the GF is at the MCG, so that's a moot point. Or another excuse. Your mob didn't complain in 97/98.

First final in Geelong? You don't know if the result would have been different. Only a guess. Geelong were favourites against us, so we're GWS. Try dealing in reality.
The first reasons you put up were in your own teams control. Something they didn't come to grips with, if they did, poor umpiring wouldn't have changed anything. The GF is played at the MCG. So what's your answer, are any MCG tenant clubs disqualified? Play at a neutral ground? (Maybe one day if stadiums can hold 100k) it's a business first and foremost. Money from the GF is directed towards all clubs) Are visiting teams given a handicap? It is what it is. I doubt a GF will ever be played at AO, so what's the answer? Do you still take part or accept the playing conditions. I can't see non Victorian clubs or non MCG tenant clubs refusing to compete in a GF because they may have to play against a tenant club. Ridiculous notion.
No doubt if Adelaide had won the GF there would hardly be a mention of it.

As to being a dodgy competition, in some ways it is contrived, with equalisation, uneven draws, some clubs even getting over half their games on their home deck. Take that home advantage away and I wonder how that affects some clubs finishing position. Maybe you would not have got a home final at AO.

There are a lot of inequalities, but every club knows this. There's no easy answer.
But the crux of the matter is, on the day your club came up short. I think Don Pyke hit the nail on the head. He knows his players, he admitted they were poor on the day. He didn't blame the umpires, the MCG, Cotchin being eligible to play, dodgy umpiring, Richmond should have played Geelong at KP or Adelaide at AO.

In the wash up, 2 teams competed, one played exceptionally well, one team didn't. Hard to swallow, but thanks it in a nutshell. Improvement not excuses is what's needed to go one step further. And no doubt we'll have our work cut out as well. There will be plenty of other teams improving and on the rise next year.

 

[Elite Crow]

Yep some variables in all that.
Play that at AO? Well that's a hypothetical. You can't guess the result. No doubt you'd be favourites, but you were in this one as well. We all know the GF is at the MCG, so that's a moot point. Or another excuse. Your mob didn't complain in 97/98.

First final in Geelong? You don't know if the result would have been different. Only a guess. Geelong were favourites against us, so we're GWS. Try dealing in reality.
The first reasons you put up were in your own teams control. Something they didn't come to grips with, if they did, poor umpiring wouldn't have changed anything. The GF is played at the MCG. So what's your answer, are any MCG tenant clubs disqualified? Play at a neutral ground? (Maybe one day if stadiums can hold 100k) it's a business first and foremost. Money from the GF is directed towards all clubs) Are visiting teams given a handicap? It is what it is. I doubt a GF will ever be played at AO, so what's the answer? Do you still take part or accept the playing conditions. I can't see non Victorian clubs or non MCG tenant clubs refusing to compete in a GF because they may have to play against a tenant club. Ridiculous notion.
No doubt if Adelaide had won the GF there would hardly be a mention of it.

As to being a dodgy competition, in some ways it is contrived, with equalisation, uneven draws, some clubs even getting over half their games on their home deck. Take that home advantage away and I wonder how that affects some clubs finishing position. Maybe you would not have got a home final at AO.

There are a lot of inequalities, but every club knows this. There's no easy answer.
But the crux of the matter is, on the day your club came up short. I think Don Pyke hit the nail on the head. He knows his players, he admitted they were poor on the day. He didn't blame the umpires, the MCG, Cotchin being eligible to play, dodgy umpiring, Richmond should have played Geelong at KP or Adelaide at AO.

In the wash up, 2 teams competed, one played exceptionally well, one team didn't. Hard to swallow, but thanks it in a nutshell. Improvement not excuses is what's needed to go one step further. And no doubt we'll have our work cut out as well. There will be plenty of other teams improving and on the rise next year.

How would you have gone at AO against us? How did you go the only time you played us this year?

How would you go against Geelong? How did you go only a month earlier without Selwood playing?

We all agree it is what it is and won’t change, but just because you beat us on your home ground doesn’t make you the better team overall, you were better on the day playing on your home ground. So having smart arse smug Tigers supporters telling us to suck it up isnt really needed, especially when you won’t acknowledge the massive leg up you guys have playing the GF at your home ground. Next year you play their 14 times, us? 2, not a lot of time to adjust our game plan to suit the G.

 

[tigerwill]

How would you have gone at AO against us? How did you go the only time you played us this year?

How would you go against Geelong? How did you go only a month earlier without Selwood playing?

We all agree it is what it is and won’t change, but just because you beat us on your home ground doesn’t make you the better team overall, you were better on the day playing on your home ground. So having smart arse smug Tigers supporters telling us to suck it up isnt really needed, especially when you won’t acknowledge the massive leg up you guys have playing the GF at your home ground. Next year you play their 14 times, us? 2, not a lot of time to adjust our game plan to suit the G.

You quoted my post. So I'll answer.
Here's a tip, who we played in R1, R6 or R15 or where we played them or the result had little bearing on the result on GF day. And really, now you want to bring Geelong into the equation. With respect seeing it's your board, but it's funny how some Adealaide supporters can admit their team was beaten by a better team on the day, but others make so many excuses they really sound like adolescents who lack some basic comprehension of the game.

As I already said, hypotheticals about what if the GF was played elsewhere are just fantasy, or if we played Geelong at KP or if Cotchin was ruled out by the MRP or the where abouts we played another team or anything else.
There is one reality. The GF is at the MCG.
Your club knew that in its inception, they actually won 2 premierships a few years after their startup. No bleating about playing at the MCG then. It's only when you lose your 1st GF has it become a topic of conversation. All clubs know where the GF is. I notice when you've quoted my response you didn't actually have an answer to any questions I posed.
Making excuses that you played poorly because the GF was there is a cop out. The same yhat it was an AFL conspiracy with the umpires.
The fact is we had good form leading into the finals series, a good run with injuries and the team was playing with confidence. Whereas even though the Crows were redhot favourites, with many hyping Adelaide as the form team of the year, they missed the boat a bit, that they only finished one win and a draw ahead of us. You had a few players possibly underdone or carrying injuries and some mixed form heading into the finals. That didn't help your cause either.

No one claimed we were the better team overall, it comes down to that one day. The best team doesn't always win it, usually the better team on the day does. As did happen.
I'm not being a smart arse about it. Nor gloating. I answered a question. Pity more crow supporters can't face up to the fact that blaming all and sundry and looking for excuses for their teams poor performance on the biggest day of the year is just that. Making excuses and having a sense of entitlement. Here's a tip, it's hard work that helps you win. One team had more contributors working hard for each other.

 

[GROTTO]

No one claimed we were the better team overall,.

I actually felt Richmond had the better year overall.

Tigers lost just 2 games by 3+ goals. Crows lost 5 games by almost 4+ goals.

The irony is that the worst beating the Tigers took in 2017 was to the Crows. Even in that game, the Tigers led at QT at AO and with a bit of luck could have put heavy scoreboard pressure in the second quarter.

 

[Elite Crow]

You quoted my post. So I'll answer.
Here's a tip, who we played in R1, R6 or R15 or where we played them or the result had little bearing on the result on GF day. And really, now you want to bring Geelong into the equation. With respect seeing it's your board, but it's funny how some Adealaide supporters can admit their team was beaten by a better team on the day, but others make so many excuses they really sound like adolescents who lack some basic comprehension of the game.

As I already said, hypotheticals about what if the GF was played elsewhere are just fantasy, or if we played Geelong at KP or if Cotchin was ruled out by the MRP or the where abouts we played another team or anything else.
There is one reality. The GF is at the MCG.
Your club knew that in its inception, they actually won 2 premierships a few years after their startup. No bleating about playing at the MCG then. It's only when you lose your 1st GF has it become a topic of conversation. All clubs know where the GF is. I notice when you've quoted my response you didn't actually have an answer to any questions I posed.
Making excuses that you played poorly because the GF was there is a cop out. The same yhat it was an AFL conspiracy with the umpires.
The fact is we had good form leading into the finals series, a good run with injuries and the team was playing with confidence. Whereas even though the Crows were redhot favourites, with many hyping Adelaide as the form team of the year, they missed the boat a bit, that they only finished one win and a draw ahead of us. You had a few players possibly underdone or carrying injuries and some mixed form heading into the finals. That didn't help your cause either.

No one claimed we were the better team overall, it comes down to that one day. The best team doesn't always win it, usually the better team on the day does. As did happen.
I'm not being a smart arse about it. Nor gloating. I answered a question. Pity more crow supporters can't face up to the fact that blaming all and sundry and looking for excuses for their teams poor performance on the biggest day of the year is just that. Making excuses and having a sense of entitlement. Here's a tip, it's hard work that helps you win. One team had more contributors working hard for each other.

Lots of words, but in the end you give not one bit of allowance for the leg up you received you didn’t deserve.

You lost to Geelong in round 21 and yet you smashed them on your home ground only a couple of weeks later. When was the last time you have beaten Geelong at Geelong? You don’t like to deal in hypotheticals because you know the AFL is a dodgy comp and you benefited from it.

If you had won the right to play at the G and instead were made to play at Skilled or AO, you would have whinged your arse off and that’s not a hypothetical.

 

[kulak]

Here’s two things, both of which I believe are true

1. The AFL wanted Bulldogs to win last year and Richmond to win this year. The signs were there when Cotchin and Ellis didn’t even get cited for acts which would have earned suspensions earlier in the year. There was an element of favouritism in the umpiring although not as bad as last year.

Just like AFL might have been hoping Sydney would win in 2005 when Barry Hall bizarrely avoided suspension for the GF

2. The effect was negligible because Richmond were by far the best team. They were fantastic and deserved to win. They didn’t need an umpiring advantage in either of their first two finals and won them the same way. They would have won the same way regardless.

Swans fans had good reason to be salty last year. Adelaide weren’t close.

 

[Roovolution]

Here’s two things, both of which I believe are true

1. The AFL wanted Bulldogs to win last year and Richmond to win this year. The signs were there when Cotchin and Ellis didn’t even get cited for acts which would have earned suspensions earlier in the year. There was an element of favouritism in the umpiring although not as bad as last year.

Just like AFL might have been hoping Sydney would win in 2005 when Barry Hall bizarrely avoided suspension for the GF

2. The effect was negligible because Richmond were by far the best team. They were fantastic and deserved to win. They didn’t need an umpiring advantage in either of their first two finals and won them the same way. They would have won the same way regardless.

Swans fans had good reason to be salty last year. Adelaide weren’t close.

Umpiring was deplorable last year but it was worse for our GF. Umpires didn’t even try and hide their blatant favouritism this year. That’s how arrogant they’ve become.

 

[Roovolution]

Yeah, you're right. Gil McLachlan (a South Aussie) has instructed all the umpires or 2/3 of them on gf day to pay free kicks to the Victorian teams and hardly pay any to the non Victorian teams. Or is it the AFL Commissioners instructing the umpires or the Director of Umpires? Or do the Victorian umpires just decide they're going to"rig" the game themselves?
Yes, there were free kicks that went against your team, that happens in most games. For you to say you've watched it twice and were at the game as well, but can only stridently bleat about the umpires and can't fault your own players performance tells us that you don't really watch the game or understand it too well. You come across as someone looking for an excuse for a poor performance rather than being prepared to critique his own teams performance.
Pathetic excuse to state the players dropped their heads because frees went against them. You pay no credit to the fact that adelaide were put under immense pressure from their opponents, not the umpires.

If you're going on record to say that all your players dropped their heads and played poorly because of poor umpiring, what you're actually saying is that the whole team (apart from maybe Matt Crouch) aren't worthy of competing in a GF. Hardly an endorsement of your team. Me, I'd say they're a good team but collectively had an off day. They had been running a bit hot and cold. Check Adelaide's for line over the past month or so.
Richmond were on, as they had been for some time.

Are the umpires incompetent or corrupt? Which is it?

 

[rmcq]

Here’s two things, both of which I believe are true

1. The AFL wanted Bulldogs to win last year and Richmond to win this year. The signs were there when Cotchin and Ellis didn’t even get cited for acts which would have earned suspensions earlier in the year. There was an element of favouritism in the umpiring although not as bad as last year.

Just like AFL might have been hoping Sydney would win in 2005 when Barry Hall bizarrely avoided suspension for the GF

2. The effect was negligible because Richmond were by far the best team. They were fantastic and deserved to win. They didn’t need an umpiring advantage in either of their first two finals and won them the same way. They would have won the same way regardless.

Swans fans had good reason to be salty last year. Adelaide weren’t close.

Hey Crows fans. Stood with a couple of Crows supporters at the game, they’d driven over the day before. Loved the passion of the day on both sides. Disappointing for you guys, something went horribly awry on the day.

Anyway,
1. I have not seen any similar incidents cited at MRP for the year. FFS Toby Greene kicked someone in the head and got off.

If you think the umpires are directed by the AFL to favour one side over another, then you’ll believe anything.

 

[Jenkins4]

Hey Crows fans. Stood with a couple of Crows supporters at the game, they’d driven over the day before. Loved the passion of the day on both sides. Disappointing for you guys, something went horribly awry on the day.

Anyway,
1. I have not seen any similar incidents cited at MRP for the year. FFS Toby Greene kicked someone in the head and got off.

If you think the umpires are directed by the AFL to favour one side over another, then you’ll believe anything.

Directed no. Subconscious favoritism yes.

 

[rmcq]

Directed no. Subconscious favoritism yes.

Fair enough. It’s been shown that baseball umpires, even when they know they’re being monitored, subconsciously favour the home team. So there was likely slight favouritism Richmond’s way, despite the umpires doing their best to be impartial.

Although the crowd was close enough to even that it’s highly debatable whether the umpires were influenced by crowd noise.

 

[Jenkins4]

Fair enough. It’s been shown that baseball umpires, even when they know they’re being monitored, subconsciously favour the home team. So there was likely slight favouritism Richmond’s way, despite the umpires doing their best to be impartial.

Although the crowd was close enough to even that it’s highly debatable whether the umpires were influenced by crowd noise.

Baseball analogy is irrelevant as nothing in the world of sport is like the AFL/VFL. 10 teams, 1 City can not be compared. Please don’t patronize us by even trying.

However, you are on drugs if you think the crowd was even on that day. Compared to Richmond, we were like a church mouse and I thought we brought the noise. The crowd went to another level in favor of Richmond that way.

 

[Sanders]

Here’s two things, both of which I believe are true

1. The AFL wanted Bulldogs to win last year and Richmond to win this year. The signs were there when Cotchin and Ellis didn’t even get cited for acts which would have earned suspensions earlier in the year. There was an element of favouritism in the umpiring although not as bad as last year.

Just like AFL might have been hoping Sydney would win in 2005 when Barry Hall bizarrely avoided suspension for the GF

2. The effect was negligible because Richmond were by far the best team. They were fantastic and deserved to win. They didn’t need an umpiring advantage in either of their first two finals and won them the same way. They would have won the same way regardless.

Swans fans had good reason to be salty last year. Adelaide weren’t close.

Agree

It’s embarrassing

 

[Sanders]

Are the umpires incompetent or corrupt? Which is it?

Neither, you’re a foaming lunatic on this subject

 

[Danger in Texas]

Here’s two things, both of which I believe are true

1. The AFL wanted Bulldogs to win last year and Richmond to win this year. The signs were there when Cotchin and Ellis didn’t even get cited for acts which would have earned suspensions earlier in the year. There was an element of favouritism in the umpiring although not as bad as last year.

Just like AFL might have been hoping Sydney would win in 2005 when Barry Hall bizarrely avoided suspension for the GF

2. The effect was negligible because Richmond were by far the best team. They were fantastic and deserved to win. They didn’t need an umpiring advantage in either of their first two finals and won them the same way. They would have won the same way regardless.

Swans fans had good reason to be salty last year. Adelaide weren’t close.

Yep this is it

The umpiring was definitely biased towards the Tigers, however this is not what lost us the game. We lost by 48 points - good umpiring doesn't lessen the margin by 50 points

 

[rmcq]

Baseball analogy is irrelevant as nothing in the world of sport is like the AFL/VFL. 10 teams, 1 City can not be compared. Please don’t patronize us by even trying.

However, you are on drugs if you think the crowd was even on that day. Compared to Richmond, we were like a church mouse and I thought we brought the noise. The crowd went to another level in favor of Richmond that way.

The comparison is only to acknowledge that despite an umpire's best efforts, they can still be biased.

As to the crowd, it was definitely fairly even in the early stages, but the Crows supporters went quiet reasonably quickly, because the Crows players just weren’t giving them anything to cheer.

In any case, even if there was a slight umpiring bias towards Richmond, the game just wasn’t close. And if you’re going to argue that an early umpiring decision caused the Crows to lose heart, then they have a lot more to worry about than umpiring bias.

 

[Elite Crow]

Hey Crows fans. Stood with a couple of Crows supporters at the game, they’d driven over the day before. Loved the passion of the day on both sides. Disappointing for you guys, something went horribly awry on the day.

Anyway,
1. I have not seen any similar incidents cited at MRP for the year. FFS Toby Greene kicked someone in the head and got off.

If you think the umpires are directed by the AFL to favour one side over another, then you’ll believe anything.

What’s your thoughts on playing on your home ground twice during the finals series when you didn’t deserve it? Do you feel you would have won the f** without this unfair advantage?

 

[rmcq]

By the way, still waiting for someone to show me any instance similar to Ellis or Cotchin that was cited by the MRP. People seem to be confusing the AFL's stance regarding tackling with other in-play incidents.

 

[Elite Crow]

By the way, still waiting for someone to show me any instance similar to Ellis or Cotchin that was cited by the MRP. People seem to be confusing the AFL's stance regarding tackling with other in-play incidents.

What’s the rule?

 

[rmcq]

What’s your thoughts on playing on your home ground twice during the finals series when you didn’t deserve it? Do you feel you would have won the f** without this unfair advantage?

Geelong? There's on,y been one final played at KP, after massive bleating by the Cats and the AFL wanting to help them with their new stadium. Otherwise, Geelong have always played finals at the MCG.

Adelaide? All Grand Finals are played at the MCG. I imagine the logistical difficulty of selling corporate tickets when the venue is not known until a few days before would be impossible. The GF is a corporate event after all.

Neither of those unforeseen, unexpected or under any control by Richmond, and neither are evidence of bias towards Richmond by the AFL.

 

[rmcq]

What’s the rule?

I don’t know.

 

[Elite Crow]

Geelong? There's on,y been one final played at KP, after massive bleating by the Cats and the AFL wanting to help them with their new stadium. Otherwise, Geelong have always played finals at the MCG.

Adelaide? All Grand Finals are played at the MCG. I imagine the logistical difficulty of selling corporate tickets when the venue is not known until a few days before would be impossible. The GF is a corporate event after all.

Neither of those unforeseen, unexpected or under any control by Richmond, and neither are evidence of bias towards Richmond by the AFL.

That wasn’t the question. Have another read, how do you think you would have gone without the unfair advantage? Citing why the unfair advantage is there isn’t relevant.

 

[Disco_Stu]

What’s your thoughts on playing on your home ground twice during the finals series when you didn’t deserve it? Do you feel you would have won the f** without this unfair advantage?

Do you actually read what you write? Staggering.

 

[Elite Crow]

I don’t know.

Well perhaps you should before you talk about the Cotchin incident. It was about his intent and his intent was to bump and he hit Shiel in the head and forced him from the ground and warranted a suspension under the rules.

 

[Elite Crow]

Do you actually read what you write? Staggering.

Is that code for I can’t answer?