Review The Grand Final Disaster of 2017.

[rmcq]

Well perhaps you should before you talk about the Cotchin incident. It was about his intent and his intent was to bump and he hit Shiel in the head and forced him from the ground and warranted a suspension under the rules.

Still waiting for a comparative incident that was cited. Anything from the last 5 years will be fine.

No-one knows Cotchin's intent except Cotchin.

 

[rmcq]

By the way, while talking to the two Crows guys, I was taken aback by their hatred of the “VFL”, and how biased it was against the Crows. Because, as a Victorian supporter, we've always objected to the AFL taking the game out of Victoria, favouring interstate sides, making sure they finish in the finals with draft concessions, extra cash, under the-table deals, etc. At least we all have our hatred of the AFL hierarchy in common!

 

[Elite Crow]

Still waiting for a comparative incident that was cited.

No-one knows Cotchin's intent except Cotchin.

Take a guess. What normally is the intent when a player tucks his arm in and makes contact with the player?

Is it:

A) to give him a hug?
B) to tackle?
C) to bump?

 

[rmcq]

That wasn’t the question. Have another read, how do you think you would have gone without the unfair advantage? Citing why the unfair advantage is there isn’t relevant.

Oh, well when you post a straw man argument, then it incumbent to burn down the straw man rather than answer the jest ion. I do not believe it was an “unfair advantage”, and that’s what I argued.

 

[Elite Crow]

By the way, while talking to the two Crows guys, I was taken aback by their hatred of the “VFL”, and how biased it was against the Crows. Because, as a Victorian supporter, we've always objected to the AFL taking the game out of Victoria, favouring interstate sides, making sure they finish in the finals with draft concessions, extra cash, under the-table deals, etc. At least we all have our hatred of the AFL hierarchy in common!

Without the interstate sides half your clubs would be broke so you should appreciate us.

 

[Elite Crow]

Oh, well when you post a straw man argument, then it incumbent to burn down the straw man rather than answer the jest ion. I do not believe it was an “unfair advantage”, and that’s what I argued.

Classic deflection, I’ll ask it another way then:

Do you think you would have won the GF had your finals been at Geelong and Adelaide Oval?

 

[rmcq]

Take a guess. What normally is the intent when a player tucks his arm in and makes contact with the player?

Is it:

A) to give him a hug?
B) to tackle?
C) to bump?

D) to protect his own body from contact with the ground?

As I said, no idea. Perhaps he just wanted to hit Shiel and used the pretence of a contest to do it?

That incident happened almost right in front of me on the day. Cotchin came running at full pelt from a distance to attack the ball and push Shiel out of the way, winning the ball in the process. Just the sort of football I like, and exactly the sort of football that GWS is lacking, and why they haven’t yet won a prelim.

 

[Elite Crow]

D) to protect his own body from contact with the ground?

As I said, no idea. Perhaps he just wanted to hit Shiel and used the pretence of a contest to do it?

That incident happened almost right in front of me on the day. Cotchin came running at full pelt from a distance to attack the ball and push Shiel out of the way, winning the ball in the process. Just the sort of football I like, and exactly the sort of football that GWS is lacking, and why they haven’t yet won a prelim.

So he wanted to bump the ground?

You just answered it! He wanted to push Cotchin out the way, he did this by bumping, there is his intent and when the other player is hit high and concussed that’s a suspension, normally

 

[rmcq]

Classic deflection, I’ll ask it another way then:

Do you think you would have won the GF had your finals been at Geelong and Adelaide Oval?

Yes. Geelong relied on Harry Taylor to beat Rance and score multiple goals. Rance is too good to let that happen a second time.

Adelaide were just terrible.

Would Richmond have beaten Geelong a few weeks earlier, giveing them second spot on the ladder and home finals anyway, if it was played at the MCG? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[rmcq]

So he wanted to bump the ground?

You just answered it! He wanted to push Cotchin out the way, he did this by bumping, there is his intent and when the other player is hit high and concussed that’s a suspension, normally

Still waiting for a comparable incident. According to the MRP, incidental contact with the head in-play is ok. Look at Greene.

 

[Elite Crow]

Yes. Geelong relied on Harry Taylor to beat Rance and score multiple goals. Rance is too good to let that happen a second time.

Adelaide were just terrible.

Would Richmond have beaten Geelong a few weeks earlier, giveing them second spot on the ladder and home finals anyway, if it was played at the MCG? Maybe, maybe not.

Haha.

Geelong beat you without Selwood and when is the last time you have beaten Geelong in Geelong?

Did you see our two home finals at AO?
Can you remember what we did to you at AO?

Completely different ground dimensions and a massive home ground advantage, good luck with that.

But if that’s what you think there isn’t much point continuing this is there?

 

[Elite Crow]

Still waiting for a comparable incident. According to the MRP, incidental contact with the head in-play is ok. Look at Greene.

How about Sloane in 2016?

 

[rmcq]

Haha.

Geelong beat you without Selwood and when is the last time you have beaten Geelong in Geelong?

Did you see our two home finals at AO?
Can you remember what we did to you at AO?

Completely different ground dimensions and a massive home ground advantage, good luck with that.

But if that’s what you think there isn’t much point continuing this is there?

2006. I was at that game. Wind was blowing a gale, scoring only possible really at one end. Richmond just did it a little bit better. The next game we played in 2007 at Etihad Stadium, I was there for that game too. We lost by 157 points. HGA is at best 2 goals.

Your home finals? No, too far to travel.
But I was really looking forward to seeing the “best attacking team” on GF day The Crows boys also told me how good Lever was, so I was pumped to watch them even if we lost. I saw nothing. Adelaide lost because they were pathetic on the day. HGA was irrelevant.

I can’t believe that you would excuse that pathetic performance because they weren’t playing at Adelaide Oval. I hope your own coaching staff don’t take that attitude, or you’ll be like Geelong and never win a final again.

 

[rmcq]

How about Sloane in 2016?

Hmm.. Just watched it. Late contact led to a 50m penalty, so no way could the MRP argue that it was in play, unless the umpire got the 50m call wrong.

 

[Elite Crow]

2006. I was at that game. Wind was blowing a gale, scoring only possible really at one end. Richmond just did it a little bit better. The next game we played in 2007 at Etihad Stadium, I was there for that game too. We lost by 157 points. HGA is at best 2 goals.

Your home finals? No, too far to travel.
But I was really looking forward to seeing the “best attacking team” on GF day, the Crows boys also,told me how good Lever was, so I was pumped to watch them even if we lost. I saw nothing. Adelaide lost because they were pathetic on the day. HGA was irrelevant.

I can’t believe that you would excuse that pathetic performance because they weren’t playing at Adelaide Oval. I hope your own coaching staff don’t take that attitude, or you’ll be like Geelong and never win a final again.

Blah blah blah.

So it was 11 years ago that you beat them in Geelong, you lost to them 2 games before without their captain and you would have won because, you just would have.

So did you see how well we played in our two home finals at AO? What’s Richmond’s experience like at playing finals at AO?

I’ve said we didn’t play well, I’ve acknowledged that and plenty of us have. Would we have played terribly playing you in a prelim at AO, I highly doubt that given our record and form at AO and given yours.

So I’ve acknowledged we played poorly but it seems though I’m yet to find one Richmond supporter acknowledge they had a massive leg up in these finals. Winners can be grinners but do they need to be deluded and arrogant too?

 

[Elite Crow]

Hmm.. Just watched it. Late contact led to a 50m penalty, so no way could the MRP argue that it was in play, unless the umpire got the 50m call wrong.

What was Sloanes intent?

 

[rmcq]

What was Sloanes intent?

I don’t know. Looks like he was trying to punch the ball away to me. I certainly don’t think he intended to hit him in the head.

The point is that because a 50m penalty had been awarded, it couldn’t be considered “in play”, nor could Sloane be considered to be “contesting the ball”.
(even though that’s probably what he was doing).

Here's the text of the MRP decision for both incidents:

Cotchin:
It was the view of the panel that Cotchin was seeking to win possession as his line of direction was always towards the ball and not his opponent. The panel determined that Cotchin was seeking to contest the ball and therefore contact was not unreasonable in the circumstances. No further action was taken.

Sloane:
the incident was assessed as careless conduct with medium impact to the head.

 

[rmcq]

Blah blah blah.

So it was 11 years ago that you beat them in Geelong, you lost to them 2 games before without their captain and you would have won because, you just would have.

So did you see how well we played in our two home finals at AO? What’s Richmond’s experience like at playing finals at AO?

I’ve said we didn’t play well, I’ve acknowledged that and plenty of us have. Would we have played terribly playing you in a prelim at AO, I highly doubt that given our record and form at AO and given yours.

So I’ve acknowledged we played poorly but it seems though I’m yet to find one Richmond supporter acknowledge they had a massive leg up in these finals. Winners can be grinners but do they need to be deluded and arrogant too?

Arrogant and deluded? Hardly.

Did you see how we played again St. Kilda only a few weeks earlier and then smashed them in round 23? Did you see how we lost to GWS at the MCG, and then beat them twice both in Sydney and the MCG?

The HGA doesn’t explain the thumping you gave us at AO, and it doesn’t explain the thumping we gave you at the 'G. In one game we were crap, in the other you were. HGA is irrelevant. Now, if we'd won by 2 points, you would have an argument, but the result wouldn’t change.

 

[Elite Crow]

Arrogant and deluded? Hardly.

Did you see how we played again St. Kilda only a few weeks earlier and then smashed them in round 23? Did you see how we lost to GWS at the MCG, and then beat them twice both in Sydney and the MCG?

The HGA doesn’t explain the thumping you gave us at AO, and it doesn’t explain the thumping we gave you at the 'G. In one game we were crap, in the other you were. HGA is irrelevant. Now, if we'd won by 2 points, you would have an argument, but the result wouldn’t change.

I’m staggered that you set yourself up so badly.

Where did you play the Saints when they smashed you and where did you play the Saints when you smashed them?

You lost to GWS away and beat them twice at the G.

You’ve just proved my point, not yours

 

[Elite Crow]

I don’t know. Looks like he was trying to punch the ball away to me. I certainly don’t think he intended to hit him in the head.

Exactly. One was deemed careless and the other deemed lets let Cotchin play in a GF. The thing is only one of the players was attempting to make contact with the ball, odd that hey

 

[rmcq]

I’m staggered that you set yourself up so badly.

Where did you play the Saints when they smashed you and where did you play the Saints when you smashed them?

You lost to GWS away and beat them twice at the G.

You’ve just proved my point, not yours

Oh, that was an own goal. I thought we played GWS at the MCG the first time.

Bring on round 2, 2018.

 

[rmcq]

Exactly. One was deemed careless and the other deemed lets let Cotchin play in a GF. The thing is only one of the players was attempting to make contact with the ball, odd that hey

I’ve edited my post above. The point being that Sloane's could not be considered in play (proven by the 50m penalty), whereas Cotchin's was. And let me tell you, at the game it looked like nothing other than great football.

 

[Elite Crow]

I’ve edited my post above. The point being that Sloane's could not be considered in play (proven by the 50m penalty), whereas Cotchin's was. And let me tell you, at the game it looked like nothing other than great football.

Yep the umps always get it right.

Great football, the bump has always been great but it comes with consequences usually if you get it wrong.

 

[Elite Crow]

Oh, that was an own goal. I thought we played GWS at the MCG the first time.

Bring on round 2, 2018.

You shouldn’t have problem knocking us off as home ground advantage means nothing

 

[rmcq]

You shouldn’t have problem knocking us off as home ground advantage means nothing

HGA seems to be around 2 goals at best. So there's my line. If you beat us by a goal or less, I’ll be blaming HGA.