Brexit - The UK referendum on leaving the EU - Reneging, reshmeging!

[medusala]

The fact that Farage happily speaks at a Fascist platform in Germany says a lot.

Clueless. AFD was formed as an anti EURO party, hence the connection (and you conveniently forget his disdain for Le Pen). Its hardly akin to Corbyn cosying up to Hamas and Hezbollah.

Racist, bigoted and as this shows , essentially a fascist

Pathetic. He wants a points system like Australia for immigration. The EU freedom of movement explicity favours white Europeans over others from the rest of the world eg an unemployed romanian is dealt with more favourably than an engineer from Bombay.

Yet Farage is somehow racist. Yep ok.

Anyway, Nigel's quite well off, actually.

So what? He actually had a proper job before parliament unlike most of them.

 

[Total Power]

Clueless. AFD was formed as an anti EURO party, hence the connection (and you conveniently forget his disdain for Le Pen). Its hardly akin to Corbyn cosying up to Hamas and Hezbollah.

Pathetic, absolutely pathetic, you should be ashamed of yourself for posting such rubbish.
Where did i say they are not an anti-euro party? you conveniently ignored the fact that their supporters chant nazi slogans and wave flags while the head of Afd





Anti Euro-my arse, their agenda is far greater than anti Euro, ask an AfD supporter what they really think of brown people why dont you? i know several AfD sheeple personally. . They have a far bigger agenda than anti-Euro. You also convineintly left out the fact how anti-semitism almost split the party last year? And then several AfD candidates have spoken in favour of Anders Breivik the right wing terrorist. If that not fascism , i dont know what is. It all boils down to one thing "too many brown people in our country". You know i am right... come on tell us what you really think? i will ask Mal for a special concession if you tell us what you really think

Pathetic. He wants a points system like Australia for immigration. The EU freedom of movement explicity favours white Europeans over others from the rest of the world eg an unemployed romanian is dealt with more favourably than an engineer from Bombay.
Yet Farage is somehow racist. Yep ok.

He made immigration the main agenda and only his xenophobia, combined by a bunch of lies and supporting Johnsons BS claims like 350 million dollars to NHS sold to the UK people. The free movement of people inside the EU and EEA will remain, even CH and NO accepted it, infact Norway has more immigration per capita than any other EU country, do your research, selling people a bunch of lies by saying if you leave the EU it will help less immigration is a lie. There will be no trade deal without free movement of people. Racist and fascist yes he is, selling lies and xenophobia is fascist.

So what? He actually had a proper job before parliament unlike most of them.

He has a job now too, consulting Neo-nazi groups like AfD, why draw millions from an organisation you supposed to hate? oh wait...

 

[Total Power]

Have anyone really actually attended an AfD rally? all these "experts" commenting on so many things, must have attended a few? well i did. I was insulted, was asked to leave and eventually spat on. I was told i am not welcome here (being aboriginal/asian). Anyone defending AfD and its supporters are scumbags.

 

[medusala]

He made immigration the main agenda and only his xenophobia, combined by a bunch of lies and supporting Johnsons BS claims like 350 million dollars to NHS sold to the UK people.

anti mass immigration is hardly racist. Its the EU with a racist agenda as i have explained (but you conveniently ignore that). Norway is in the EEA which requires freedom of movement.

There will be no trade deal without free movement of people

Nonsense. It can revert to WTO.

350 million dollars? Lol its £. And £350m is actually an understatement. Its pretty obvious you have no idea on this topic, you are just regurgitating crap from the Guardian.

You know i am right... come on tell us what you really think?

You are a clueless dribbler.

Why dont you post pics with Corbyn and the IRA, Hezbollah and Hamas? You know REAL terrorist organisations.

 

[Bradesmaen]

anti mass immigration is hardly racist. Its the EU with a racist agenda as i have explained (but you conveniently ignore that). Norway is in the EEA which requires freedom of movement.

It is when it targets a group of people. He had no problems with Germans moving to the UK, had a problem with Romanians.

350 million dollars? Lol its £. And £350m is actually an understatement. Its pretty obvious you have no idea on this topic, you are just regurgitating crap from the Guardian.

As has been stated time and time again, you are completely incorrect. It is an overstatement. Sure they pay £350m or there abouts but the net loss was £180m, something that Grand Wizard of maths Mr Farage and yourself can't contemplate.


Such a clueless neo-con.

 

[Total Power]

anti mass immigration is hardly racist. Its the EU with a racist agenda as i have explained (but you conveniently ignore that). Norway is in the EEA which requires freedom of movement.

LOL that's it? just anti mass immigration? can you safely say that if the Syrian refugee wave never came Brexit would have happened? you know i am right. Fear really works and xenophobia works even better. Still doesnt hide the fact that AfD the part you defended have Nazi ideologies. Why would you defend Anders Brevilk otherwise?

Nonsense. It can revert to WTO.

You need to stop reading Breitbart. Other countries see Brexit as an opportunity to reopen settled matters because they know they can drive a harder bargain.
The US with 330m, China with 1.3b, India with over 1 billion, Japan with 100m+.

The EU offered support for the UK with trade against these large states, but after Brexit we will have no support and, as anyone who has played even basic strategy games knows, having more pieces, more population, more resources, usually wins the game.

It says everything that the Tories and Brexiteers can't even do basic things competently. Before you parrot Milo and say Eu has no trade agreements: The EU has no Free Trade Agreements with the USA, true, but they have over a dozen trade agreements with the USA covering issues like mutual recognition of standards etc. All these will lapse with Brexit and will have to be renegotiated or transferred (which will require USA agreement). For more info on this, go to long term anti-EU campaigner Richard North's blogs at eureferendum.com, and search for trade agreements - he's covered this area several times.

350 million dollars? Lol its £. And £350m is actually an understatement. Its pretty obvious you have no idea on this topic, you are just regurgitating crap from the Guardian.

Ok so it was a typo, you picked up on cause it will apparently save your arse? why dont you show us the math, on how its more than 350 million pounds a week when even your overlord Farage admitted it was a mistake. You must know better than them even.

You are a clueless dribbler.

Aww , pissed off already cause i exposed your fascist views?

 

[Procrastinator35]

Hezbollah and Hamas? You know REAL terrorist organisations.

Really?....After all that's happened in the middle East on the part of the U.S, NATO, The Wahhabi Salafist, extremist Sunni nut-bags, The C.I.A, M16 & MOSSAD....And you're referencing Hamas & Hezbollah as the REAL terrorists?

Give me a break Meds.

 

[Total Power]

For once i agree with p35

 

[Total Power]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...iff-placed-on-planes-made-in-northern-ireland

Donald Trump (no further proof was needed after Washington imposed a 219% tariff hitting aircraft parts manufactured in Belfast by Bombardier. Theresa May had personally lobbied the US president in a failed effort to avert that blow.)


LOL!

The more I watch this whole sorry story emerge, the more Im coming to realise that Brexit will never happen. The truth is the British people were lied to before the referendum. This is just one more example of how everything the right wing Tory press do, will prove to be detrimental to this country in the long term.
So TM has had minimal impact on her new friend Trumpy-boos concerning just one aspect of trans Atlantic trade. Maybe it's time to call in the artillery, and let that great basket case Nigel Farage do his bit. Yes, it would nice to see our Nigel get a kick in the nuts as well.

 

[medusala]

The more I watch this whole sorry story emerge, the more Im coming to realise that Brexit will never happen. The truth is the British people were lied to before the referendum.

lies? lol. The £350m claim was justified (and actually its far more than than given tariff revenue)

if you want lies look at osborne's crap re falls in house prices, recession etc.

 

[medusala]

Ok so it was a typo, you picked up on cause it will apparently save your arse? why dont you show us the math, on how its more than 350 million pounds a week when even your overlord Farage admitted it was a mistake.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/...ut-350m-a-week-to-brussels-its-actually-363m/

Official data proves Boris was wrong about £350m a week to Brussels. It’s actually £363m

Aww , pissed off already cause i exposed your fascist views?

Just another muppet whose only answer to losing an argument is to scream racism.

 

[donkeypunchd]

Quite rightly so.

The last time the Brits dis regarded Irish interests like that and allowed their DUP/Paisleyite stooges free reign in the North, thousands died and the longest deployment of troops in British history was incapable of stamping out the IRA's insurgency. In the border area itself, the IRA was so strong (particularly in Armagh) that the army was unable to travel by road and the resupply helicopters their bases relied on were routinely subject to missile and heavy arms fire, and even shot down on several occasions. Ignoring the Irish question and acting with aggression towards Irish interests around the border risks reigniting the Troubles or at the very least economic collapse in NI and the ensuing social unrest (remembering of course that 40+% of voters in the recent devolved assembly elections voted for parties that want a united Ireland in one form or another). I would have thought this should be important enough that Ireland's interests not be ignored

 

[medusala]

It is when it targets a group of people. He had no problems with Germans moving to the UK, had a problem with Romanians.

FFS. Highly skilled vs non skilled migration. Apples and pears.

Sure they pay £350m or there abouts but the net loss was £180m, something that Grand Wizard of maths Mr Farage and yourself can't contemplate.

its money the EU spends in the UK according to their wishes. Its like you trying to claim the top rate of tax was actually 30c because the govt spent money on things you use like roads. A pathetic argument.

Why is it that so many remain voters have no idea on economics or finance?

I would have thought this should be important enough that Ireland's interests not be ignored

Northern Ireland not Ireland's. The EU is making trouble by trying to separate NI from the UK with respect to trade. No country would put up with an attack on its sovereignty like that.

Of course the Irish are concerned given their trade with the UK. Their is a body of opinion that thinks BREXIT could even lead to the Irish leaving the EU as well.

 

[Bradesmaen]

FFS. Highly skilled vs non skilled migration. Apples and pears.

Not really. He never mentioned the skill. Just the country they are from. Plus there are plenty of unskilled Germans here and plenty of skill Romanians and Poles.

its money the EU spends in the UK according to their wishes. Its like you trying to claim the top rate of tax was actually 30c because the govt spent money on things you use like roads. A pathetic argument.

No, no its not. "the amount paid by the UK into the EU budget less EU expenditure in the UK." Derp.

Why is it that so many remain voters have no idea on economics or finance?

Why is it that neo-cons like you have no grasp on simple maths or the English language? Or anything other than hate for other countries?

Also saying FFS at the start of every post makes you look like nothing more than an old man yelling at a cloud.

 

[Total Power]

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/...ut-350m-a-week-to-brussels-its-actually-363m/

Official data proves Boris was wrong about £350m a week to Brussels. It’s actually £363m

Considering you profess to know so much about economics: if you ran a company and it came in with profit would you say net or gross that makes no difference and spend the largest amount because it suited you how long would you be in business? Do you even understand the very basics?

Let me educate you a bit:

It is obviously misleading to suggest that even the £160 million is a saving.

Functions performed by the EU will need to be reproduced and the UK will have borders to manage and trade deals to negotiate.

It all costs money and the £160 million will not go far.

Boris blew more than a weeks contribution on his garden bridge.

UK didn't have borders with the EU that needed to be manned and monitored as they will when we leave.

Many expensive personnel will need to be recruited to negotiate deals, we have no capacity for that since the EU did it for us.

The regulatory activity undertaken by the EU, for all goods and services, will need to be reproduced for the UK in the future.

If UK want to challenge, for example, telephone providers on roaming charges then we will have to undertake time consuming and costly work to do so.

The EU did these things, and more, for all members achieving an economy of scale. They will all be relatively more costly reproduced for a single nation.

The Irish border is about a billion a year, going by past experience! No one expects that itss going to be troop free, at least, not for long!

And lastly:

It is even more complicated. Firstly, no money is sent on a weekly basis.

Secondly, member states make financial commitments, i.e. promises, under a 7 year financial framework.
This framework is then implemented as annual budgets, with two categories: promises and actual payments. The actual payments stem from programmes and projects as they come into life. Programmes are run by the member states for which they get lumpsums, projects generally have all kind of beneficiaries.
There are projects ongoing that may have started years ago and which produce invoices only now.
In other words: money that the UK promised in 2014 may still not have been called in. The open exit bill is largely about past promises still to be paid. The UK budget has thus yet to be charged.
If the Brits and specially you would be willing to talk about this they may actually learn something instead of posting blog posts.

Just another muppet whose only answer to losing an argument is to scream racism.

LOL! say thank you for the lesson above. You have lost the argument long time ago, when you suggested Afd are just anti-Euro but conveniently failed to mention them supporting well known terrorists and Nazism.

 

[Total Power]

lies? lol. The £350m claim was justified (and actually its far more than than given tariff revenue)

if you want lies look at osborne's crap re falls in house prices, recession etc.

Let me try again:

in 2016 - The UK would have been liable for £17 billion in contributions, but they get a ‘rebate’ worth almost £4 billion.

So in 2016 the UK government paid £13.1 billion to the EU budget

EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion. So after deducting that £4.5 billion which is spent back into the UK, the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at about £8.6 billion.

£8,600,000,000 divided by 52 = £165.5 million rounded up.

So the 250/350 million a week figure is not real depending how you look at it, because it does not take into account the £4.5 billion spent back into the uk (mostly on agricultural subsidies), but we'll still have £165 million a week to spend on whatever we like assuming we ourselves will also spend £4.5 billion a year on agricultural subsidy.


Got it? i can't explain it any easier.

 

[Total Power]

Not really. He never mentioned the skill. Just the country they are from. Plus there are plenty of unskilled Germans here and plenty of skill Romanians and Poles.





No, no its not. "the amount paid by the UK into the EU budget less EU expenditure in the UK." Derp.


Why is it that neo-cons like you have no grasp on simple maths or the English language? Or anything other than hate for other countries?

Also saying FFS at the start of every post makes you look like nothing more than an old man yelling at a cloud.

You are just wasting your time, it's obvious he doesn't understand what net/gross is and how much EU spends on the UK. His argument is since the UK has no control over EU spending its all a waste, even if the EU spends it on UK.

 

[medusala]

Functions performed by the EU will need to be reproduced and the UK will have borders to manage and trade deals to negotiate.

No they wont need to be reproduced in their current form. Paying for set aside land under CAP for example wont need to be. Ditto the development cash on white elephants.

UK didn't have borders with the EU that needed to be manned and monitored as they will when we leave.

Customs already exists. It will just need to check eu imports.

Many expensive personnel will need to be recruited to negotiate deals, we have no capacity for that since the EU did it for us.

Hiring a few public servants, wow.

.

So the 250/350 million a week figure is not real depending how you look at it, because it does not take into account the £4.5 billion spent back into the uk (mostly on agricultural subsidies), but we'll still have £165 million a week to spend on whatever we like assuming we ourselves will also spend £4.5 billion a year on agricultural subsidy..

No, it will be far more than that due to tariff revenue which the EU now takes most of. The UK will now get all of that and potentially a large amount due to the trade deficit it runs with the EU. Thats possibly another £8-10b.

You are just wasting your time, it's obvious he doesn't understand what net/gross is and how much EU spends on the UK. His argument is since the UK has no control over EU spending its all a waste, even if the EU spends it on UK.

Do you even realise how the CAP works? And where most of the payments go and what for?

 

[Total Power]

Customs already exists. It will just need to check eu imports.

https://www.politico.eu/article/report-post-brexit-customs-costs-for-business-could-hit-9-billion/

 

[Total Power]

No, it will be far more than that due to tariff revenue which the EU now takes most of. The UK will now get all of that and potentially a large amount due to the trade deficit it runs with the EU. Thats possibly another £8-10b.

Wasn't there a trade deficit in the 60s before the UK joined the "common market" as it was then called? What makes you think that the deficit wouldn't get worse with a Brexit? Where do you and brexiteers get the idea that wages would go up if the UK left the EU? That is a toss up except that an economic dislocation would cause a general downturn that would reduce all business and consumption. Manufacturing would be hard hit.So UK getting lower investment returns from the EU because we are members of the EU. Or You import more petroleum products that at any point in 40 years because we are members of the EU?

Tell me how leaving the EU changes that? It is always amuses me the take on the trade gap.


Here is one such extra cost

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...stry-eu-security-european-union-a8064521.html

The UK’s aerospace industry could face £1.5bn a year in extra costs after Brexit if firms exporting components to the European Union face additional checks at the border, industry body ADS Group said on Monday.

Britain is struggling to make headway in negotiations with Brussels on arrangements for leaving the EU and the trading arrangements that will follow after Britain leaves the bloc in 2019, fuelling boardroom uncertainty in key sectors like aerospace.






Denying these is complete madness, add the costs up, its far higher than we pay to the EU, even if we take the 350 million figure to be true, which it isn't.

Meds must have his own math tools, i figure another blog post coming.

 

[donkeypunchd]

.

Northern Ireland not Ireland's. The EU is making trouble by trying to separate NI from the UK with respect to trade. No country would put up with an attack on its sovereignty like that.

Of course the Irish are concerned given their trade with the UK. Their is a body of opinion that thinks BREXIT could even lead to the Irish leaving the EU as well.

Northern Ireland is already administratively separate from the UK on many economic issues - for purposes of agriculture, infrastructure and provision of services, the North and the Republic are treated as one contiguous unit, separate from the rest of the UK. I believe there are 142 different areas of North-South integration that are administered on an all-island basis independent of the UK. It is not a great leap to suggest that the economies operate more or less as one unit, with only minor differences remaining.

Looking at the social angle of common EU membership, this current level of co-operation is predicated on both states' common EU membership. A key factor in winning Nationalist support for the GFA & the devolved parliament (bearing in mind Stormont's historic role of keeping the North's Catholics in their place) was the status accorded the Charter of Fundamental Rights in the agreement guaranteeing their freedom from Unionist domination, a charter many in the British government want to shred once the UK leaves.

Considering the cross-border social and economic ties that have been developed it is not the EU or Ireland's issue to resolve. NI voted to remain by a larger majority than the Leave vote in the rest of the UK, and as the country leaving it is the UK's responsibility to come up with a viable solution that will maintain the status quo. The idea of a separate customs border is a realistic solution and is indeed partially in place for several sectors mentioned above, particularly the agrifoods sector so crucial to NI. Ireland got this issue on the agenda at the EU, it is not a case of EU bullying it's a case of the British walking away from their responsibilities under the GFA and trying to cast them onto Ireland and the EU.

As for your point about 'Irexit', that idea as you call it is entirely marginal and has a minute level of support in Ireland. No significant party or bloc of TDs in the Dáil support such a move and there is no serious Eurosceptic movement present in the Republic. Given the idiosyncratic nature of our constitution (esp. the Crotty case at the Supreme Court which stipulated all EU treaties needed to be put to a vote prior to ratification by the Dáil), the Irish electorate wields a greater input than any other in the EU. For instance, Brexiteers point to the Lisbon Treaty re-run as an example of Bullying Brussels Bureaucrats. That could not be farther from the truth. The main concerns of the Irish electorate in the 2008 referendum were the possibility that Irish troops could be dragooned into the EUFOR battle groups (against our traditional neutrality), as well as the groundless fear that the treaty allowed for abortion on demand in the country. The Irish government negotiated explicit provisions excluding both possibilities from the revised Lisbon Treaty and it was passed comfortably. Far from being anti-democratic, the EU responded to the concerns of the Irish electorate and specifically amended the treaty to facilitate its passage. Irish people know this and appreciate it.

Whilst the Unionist parties in the North support Brexit at least superficially, the demands of the DUP and UUP to maintain an open and frictionless border are evidence enough that really leaving the common market (with all its attendent consequences) is not on the agenda for any meaningful party North or South.

I'm aware this is a lengthy piece but I feel it was necessary to clarify some of the main issues and to make plain why the NI issue is so vital and why it deserves discussion within an all-island context, separate from the rest of GB. Also this is clearly Britain's mess to deal with and not the EU or Ireland's

 

[Total Power]

So, let's see: without any tariffs and restrictions on trade, we run a colossal deficit with the EU. What does Boris and friends think will happen when barriers go up?

In the aftermath of a Brexit, would Britain be prevented from joining the EEA or would there be trade war or tariffs or British goods ?

In the last quarter, Germany had round a 20+ billion dollar trade surplus. This is not a small sum by any means.

Whether Britain is in a out of the EU, Germany,the nation that calls the shots in the EU,will not want to stop the British buying their goods on credit or otherwise.

So,simple economic logic dictates that a trade war with the UK,involving shutting the UK market off from the EU's or tit for tat tariffs and trade barriers on other's countries goods and products ,would hurt the Germany's industry more than it does the UK's -at least at the present time. That might be the ONLY saviour for the Brexiteers here like meds.

Add the other costs up as i listed above, Brexiteers got rocks in the head. Basic economics, boys!Without a manufacturing industry that can export things worthy of buying, the UK will constantly be running into deficits.

Persistent failure to invest in high quality and high productivity manufacturing is causing this and largely the fault of failing government policy. But yeah i am sure lets blame it on the 165 million/week

 

[medusala]

As for your point about 'Irexit', that idea as you call it is entirely marginal and has a minute level of support in Ireland. No significant party or bloc of TDs in the Dáil support such a move and there is no serious Eurosceptic movement present in the Republic.

The suggestion is out of necessity not because they want to. Werent Sinn Feinn rather Euro sceptics at one stage?

 

[medusala]

So, let's see: without any tariffs and restrictions on trade, we run a colossal deficit with the EU. What does Boris and friends think will happen when barriers go up?

Well if trade fell in both directions by same amount then the deficit would likely decrease. Why is it that the UK runs a surplus with the rest of the world?

Whether Britain is in a out of the EU, Germany,the nation that calls the shots in the EU,will not want to stop the British buying their goods on credit or otherwise.

Exactly. So why would they want a trade war?

Add the other costs up as i listed above, Brexiteers got rocks in the head. Basic economics, boys!Without a manufacturing industry that can export things worthy of buying, the UK will constantly be running into deficits.

Trade with the EU wont stop, its a matter of what tariffs are in place. Average WTO tariff is rather low. Even if it were 10% that could be made up by the govt from revenue it receives on EU goods coming in (ie UK will receive more than manufacturers will pay), thats already been discussed.

Persistent failure to invest in high quality and high productivity manufacturing is causing this and largely the fault of failing government policy.

Why would the govt invest in manufacturing? The UK govt has a nuclear button on this and one that utterly terrifies the EU. Dropping the corp tax rate to 10/15%.

Thats why the EU is trying to demand an end to tax competition as part of any deal.

 

[medusala]

Where do you and brexiteers get the idea that wages would go up if the UK left the EU?

Why do the working class hate immigration so much? Because it depresses their wages.