Human Movement The early Homo Sapiens

[sprockets]

I saw a doco recently that suggest that we humans today have anywhere up to 5% Neanderthal genes

I think you'll find we have much more than 5%. Humans and dogs have a majority of common genes.

 

[Wizard17]

I think you'll find we have much more than 5%. Humans and dogs have a majority of common genes.

About 20% of the Neanderthal genome survives in modern man but we each (considering Eurasian decent) have about 2-5% of that dna due to it being diluted over time.

The dna they are talking about is the genomes that came directly from Neanderthal/Sapien hybridization event not the common genes which would have been 99. something. These genes cause things like people with physical traits like elongated skulls, large eyes, large protruding noses, large broad hands etc.

Denisovans gave Tibetans and other Himilayan peoples a gene that makes it easier for them to breath at high altitudes.

So this thread is about discussing the first homo sapiens, who left Africa about 100,000 years ago to Asia. But new discovery points to human activity about 130,000 years ago in North America? How did these people cross the Atlantic? how did they survive the harsh weather in Russia and then Alaska? according to the paths (as traced by scientists), that's a fairly difficult route to take via Alaska.

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-an...an-activity-in-the-americas-130000-years-ago/

The mainstream view of early humans is changing all the time.

If it is a member of our genus then it was more likely H.Erectus than early H.Sapiens most DNA evidence points to a group of about 75-100ish modern humans arriving in America about 40000-50000 years ago or at least the group that survived did.

 

[Wizard17]

ANU researchers discount theory Indonesian hobbits evolved from Homo erectus

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...overed-by-anu-researchers/8463376?pfmredir=sm

Not exactly early modern humans but is human pop movement. Got to question how long ago early hominins left Africa with this. Bit of an older article but might interest some around here

 

[Admiral Byng]

I saw a doco recently that suggest that we humans today have anywhere up to 5% Neanderthal genes

That figure for Neanderthal DNA in humans is for Europeans and Asians. Sub-Saharan Africans have none.

 

[Wizard17]

That figure for Neanderthal DNA in humans is for Europeans and Asians. Sub-Saharan Africans have none.

Though research now says Sub-Saharan Africans aren't pureblood H.Sapiens either. All modern humans are hybrids of one kind or another.

Much older Hominin species that interbreed with ancestral Sub Saharan Africans than Denisovans or Neanderthals though.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Though research now says Sub-Saharan Africans aren't pureblood H.Sapiens either. All modern humans are hybrids of one kind or another.

Much older Hominin species that interbreed with ancestral Sub Saharan Africans than Denisovans or Neanderthals though.

Yes. They think Africans have interbred with another as yet unidentified archaic hominin species, and also Melanesians with a different missing species. Just going by the traces in the DNA.

I don't think there is such a thing as a pure bred H. Sappiness left. We are sort of the hybrid species that emerged and dominated the planet. This will no doubt upset a lot of racist ideologists, but these are the facts. Also, early Europeans were likely dark skinned with blond hair and blue eyes.

 

[Wizard17]

Yes. They think Africans have interbred with another as yet unidentified archaic hominin species, and also Melanesians with a different missing species. Just going by the traces in the DNA.

I don't think there is such a thing as a pure bred H. Sappiness left. We are sort of the hybrid species that emerged and dominated the planet. This will no doubt upset a lot of racist ideologists, but these are the facts. Also, early Europeans were likely dark skinned with blond hair and blue eyes.

Probably the reason we could dominate the earth really. Tibetans would have a lot harder time in the Himalayas without the allele they got from Denisovans, we'll probably find other beneficial traits we got from interbreeding the more we research the ancient genes they gave us.

We are advanced as we are because we inherited 3.3 million years worth of technology from ancient Hominins before we even settled our first cities.

 

[Werewolf]

Interesting development: Ancient butchered rhino suggests humans lived in the Philippines 700,000 years ago

Obviously long before humans were thought to inhabit the region and these dates continue to be pushed back!

 

[GreyCrow]

Interesting development: Ancient butchered rhino suggests humans lived in the Philippines 700,000 years ago

Obviously long before humans were thought to inhabit the region and these dates continue to be pushed back!

Interesting. A couple of things came to mind.

1. Dispersal. Not too sure on the tsunami theory. There are flood myths in most cultures so there might be some basis. I think the sheer numbers required to be swept away and the distance make it difficult for me to agree . I am happy with lower sea levels and such and looking at a map there are a number of islands between Taiwan and the Philipines to suggest this is more likely. ( that is only islands visible now , may have been more)

In one sentence they say viable human DNA isnt available due to the humidity etc and yet they then posit there is no evidence of boat use. The same humidity and temperature variables must also be considered.

2. Are there ways to calculate the size of a person by their tools? Or at least to be able to generalise the physical size of the community by its tools. ie homo floresiensis , I expect the tools to be smaller and compact to fit the smaller hands.

 

[Wizard17]

Interesting development: Ancient butchered rhino suggests humans lived in the Philippines 700,000 years ago

Obviously long before humans were thought to inhabit the region and these dates continue to be pushed back!

sounds like Homo Erectus. Considering they got into the Indonesian archipelago (that is where Erectus was first discovered) no reason as to how they couldn't get to the Philippines.

Big question is how/if Erectus or another species like Florensiensis managed to get to Northern Australia around the same time. I find it quite possible.

 

[Werewolf]

sounds like Homo Erectus. Considering they got into the Indonesian archipelago (that is where Erectus was first discovered) no reason as to how they couldn't get to the Philippines.

You're probably right. Here's another find: 50,000 year old Siberian bones (may be Homo Sapiens or Neanderthal)

 

[Wizard17]

You're probably right. Here's another find: 50,000 year old Siberian bones (may be Homo Sapiens or Neanderthal)

Older ones could also be Denisovan. Hope they are so we can start putting together a picture of what they even looked like. All we have are a few finger and toe bones.

 

[CD Xbow]

Older ones could also be Denisovan. Hope they are so we can start putting together a picture of what they even looked like. All we have are a few finger and toe bones.

I think they have even less than that, a small part of a phalanx (Finger bone) and a few teeth. If it wasn't for the ability to study the DNA we probably never have recognized these as a different hominid. I'm not sure the toe has been proven to be Denisovan. Nature had a fairly good summary from a few years back about the rootin' & tootin' our ancestors got up to - http://www.nature.com/news/evidence...=862269052&spReportId=ODYyMjY5MDUyS0Denisovan.

 

[Werewolf]

An important find: DNA reveals ancient girl from Siberia had Neanderthal mother and Denisovan father

That's the conclusion of anthropologists who analysed a 50,000 year old leg bone fragment found in a Siberian cave in the Altai mountains. Here's the abstract of their paper which was published in Nature:

Neanderthals and Denisovans are extinct groups of hominins that separated from each other more than 390,000 years ago. Here we present the genome of ‘Denisova 11’, a bone fragment from Denisova Cave (Russia) and show that it comes from an individual who had a Neanderthal mother and a Denisovan father. The father, whose genome bears traces of Neanderthal ancestry, came from a population related to a later Denisovan found in the cave. The mother came from a population more closely related to Neanderthals who lived later in Europe than to an earlier Neanderthal found in Denisova Cave, suggesting that migrations of Neanderthals between eastern and western Eurasia occurred sometime after 120,000 years ago. The finding of a first-generation Neanderthal–Denisovan offspring among the small number of archaic specimens sequenced to date suggests that mixing between Late Pleistocene hominin groups was common when they met.

 

[Always Ballin]

Papuans have the most Denisovan DNA

 

[Chief]

An important find: DNA reveals ancient girl from Siberia had Neanderthal mother and Denisovan father

That's the conclusion of anthropologists who analysed a 50,000 year old leg bone fragment found in a Siberian cave in the Altai mountains. Here's the abstract of their paper which was published in Nature:

Wow.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Amazing find.

 

[ARES]

"The only known fossils are a finger bone, three teeth and the long bone fragment from five different individuals excavated from a single cave in the Altai Mountains."

"They may not even be Neanderthals or Denisovans, said Michael Westaway, also from Griffith University.

"It makes you wonder if the Denisovans' genomes aren't simply Homo erectus [another earlier species of human, also known as Java man]," said Dr Westaway, who was not involved in the research.

"It will be good a day when we find the fossil skulls of these Denisovans to work out what hominin they are."

And further more another scientist questions whether this ancestor is merely a Homo Erectus, in other words the theory put forward is open to all interpretations yet let's ignore the entire article and print a headline.

Now, if you google Denisovan you will get pictures of apemen explaining when they lived, how they looked etc

So basically, from a 2.5cm shard supposedly from either an arm or leg bone, we have deduced it to be a 13 year old daughter and known as Denison11 and is one of our ancestors

hmmm...

 

[Always Ballin]

Wow.

I agree.

 

[Always Ballin]

I've always thought of Denisovans as the Neanderthals of the Oceanic region.

I consider Oceania (South East Asia, Micronesia, Melanesia, Polynesia, Australia, New Zealand) to be the most interesting area on Earth. I think it was the last area on Earth to truly be discovered and explored.

More than anything the population genetics of the region fascinate me. Specifically from a superficial, phenotype perspective. So many different, unique populations with traits that resemble both the darkest of Africa and the lightest of Europe. A full-blooded Aboriginal with hair textured like Europeans, skin dark as a Bantu, with a broad denture palate to match. A brow ridge that only certain European ethnic groups could match. The peoples of the Oceanic region connect us all together.

Didn't even mention the blond hair of Melanesian populations. Hell some ethnic fijians can be thrown in the states and pass of as African American. Two groups from entirely separate areas of the globe. Divergent evolution.

 

[CD Xbow]

I've always thought of Denisovans as the Neanderthals of the Oceanic region.

I consider Oceania (South East Asia, Micronesia, Melanesia, Polynesia, Australia, New Zealand) to be the most interesting area on Earth. I think it was the last area on Earth to truly be discovered and explored.

More than anything the population genetics of the region fascinate me. Specifically from a superficial, phenotype perspective. So many different, unique populations with traits that resemble both the darkest of Africa and the lightest of Europe. A full-blooded Aboriginal with hair textured like Europeans, skin dark as a Bantu, with a broad denture palate to match. A brow ridge that only certain European ethnic groups could match. The peoples of the Oceanic region connect us all together.

Didn't even mention the blond hair of Melanesian populations. Hell some ethnic fijians can be thrown in the states and pass of as African American. Two groups from entirely separate areas of the globe. Divergent evolution.

The Melanesians in New Britain and New Ireland can have ginger hair, many of the kiddies have bright ginger/blonde hair that often, but not always, darkens as they get older. When I was there I assumed it was due to an injection of European genes, but it has been shown in recent years to be a separate de novo mutation

 

[Always Ballin]

The Melanesians in New Britain and New Ireland can have ginger hair, many of the kiddies have bright ginger/blonde hair that often, but not always, darkens as they get older. When I was there I assumed it was due to an injection of European genes, but it has been shown in recent years to be a separate de novo mutation

I am pretty sure some Australian Aboriginies can get a level of rufousity in hair color too.

Very fascinating.

The first Europeans most likely resembled Aboriginies to a large degree.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

An important find: DNA reveals ancient girl from Siberia had Neanderthal mother and Denisovan father

That's the conclusion of anthropologists who analysed a 50,000 year old leg bone fragment found in a Siberian cave in the Altai mountains. Here's the abstract of their paper which was published in Nature:

Interesting find. Her old man had aboriginal in him as well.

We've already known Australians bred with siberian denisovans long before the out of Africa theory begun.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Interesting find. Her old man had aboriginal in him as well.

We've already known Australians bred with siberian denisovans long before the out of Africa theory begun.

No.

Not as far as I'm aware. Australian aborigines are fully modern humans, the vanguard of the out of Africa migration around 70-80 thousand years ago that reached Australia by at least 50 thousand years ago. Interbreeding with Denisovans seems to have happened somewhere near the Wallace line, perhaps even east of it, not in Siberia. It is thought the migration route to Australia was along the warm coasts of southern Asia, not north of the Himalayas via freezing Siberia.

Interestingly it is Melanesians from the modern day PNG area that seem to have the highest proportion of Denisovan admixture in their genes.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

No.

Not as far as I'm aware. Australian aborigines are fully modern humans, the vanguard of the out of Africa migration around 70-80 thousand years ago that reached Australia by at least 50 thousand years ago. Interbreeding with Denisovans seems to have happened somewhere near the Wallace line, perhaps even east of it, not in Siberia. It is thought the migration route to Australia was along the warm coasts of southern Asia, not north of the Himalayas via freezing Siberia.

Interestingly it is Melanesians from the modern day PNG area that seem to have the highest proportion of Denisovan admixture in their genes.

Cool story bro ..

Achtung