At home.We beat every opponent we lost to the first time.
It all comes back to you lot being mcg queens
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At home.We beat every opponent we lost to the first time.
It all comes back to sooking.At home.
It all comes back to you lot being mcg queens
Essendon 2000, Geelong 2008 (H&A) say hi.I’m still trying to work out how we got 11 votes for 95.
Seriously, most dominant side ina single season
No, you're still wrong. The data we started with was that on average, Richmond's win rate is 5.5 percentage points higher at home, while Geelong's win rate is 28.6 percentage points higher.No. He is explaining how to interpret the graph which is fine, he’s correct but I’m explaining the effect of taking a home game away from Geelong and giving it to Richmond which is also correct but has obviously gone way over your head
Here's a question for you, though: If home ground advantage is so important and everyone knows it, why did Geelong and Adelaide start as favourites vs Richmond? Didn't the betting market know where the game was being played?
Don't you see your contradiction. You say Geelong 'earned' their home ground final... by winning mostly on their home ground. Their away % of wins was poor, so it is alright by your logic for Geelong to have a large home ground advantage to get them in the position to have a home ground final, but not alright for Richmond to have a home ground final. And we have a good away record, so you could almost say we deserve more than Geelong the home advantage because we earned it over the season on all grounds. Or is is just ladder position to you, all else is irrelevant.Wow. Looks like a lot of work to try and somehow disprove the simple fact that Geelong lose a 30% winning home ground advantage that they have earned in finals or deserve during the regular season while Richmond are gifted a 6% better chance of winning.
It’s a swing of 36% in Richmond’s favour
I should have taken the gross gain and divided it by 2 to get a resultNo, you're still wrong. The data we started with was that on average, Richmond's win rate is 5.5 percentage points higher at home, while Geelong's win rate is 28.6 percentage points higher.
To see the problem with your position that those two numbers should be added together, you don't need any maths: Just consider how it would make Geelong's win rate against every other team higher than its average, which is a logical impossibility.
The reality is that Richmond, like all the MCG tenants, have a relatively small gap between home and away performances. Some teams have a big gap, and I notice that it's those supporters who are banging the "home ground advantage" drum, so maybe you're assuming it's like that for everyone. It seems like there's a bit of projection going on.
Here's a question for you, though: If home ground advantage is so important and everyone knows it, why did Geelong and Adelaide start as favourites vs Richmond? Didn't the betting market know where the game was being played?
No, you're still wrong. The data we started with was that on average, Richmond's win rate is 5.5 percentage points higher at home, while Geelong's win rate is 28.6 percentage points higher.
To see the problem with your position that those two numbers should be added together, you don't need any maths: Just consider how it would make Geelong's win rate against every other team higher than its average, which is a logical impossibility.
The reality is that Richmond, like all the MCG tenants, have a relatively small gap between home and away performances. Some teams have a big gap, and I notice that it's those supporters who are banging the "home ground advantage" drum, so maybe you're assuming it's like that for everyone. It seems like there's a bit of projection going on.
Here's a question for you, though: If home ground advantage is so important and everyone knows it, why did Geelong and Adelaide start as favourites vs Richmond? Didn't the betting market know where the game was being played?
Geelong’s away win % is still better than Richmond’s looking at the graph.Don't you see your contradiction. You say Geelong 'earned' their home ground final... by winning mostly on their home ground. Their away % of wins was poor, so it is alright by your logic for Geelong to have a large home ground advantage to get them in the position to have a home ground final, but not alright for Richmond to have a home ground final. And we have a good away record, so you could almost say we deserve more than Geelong the home advantage because we earned it over the season on all grounds. Or is is just ladder position to you, all else is irrelevant.
Let's keep it simple.Geelong’s away win % is still better than Richmond’s looking at the graph.
Let’s just penalise every team that wins too many games at home and play them all on Richmond’s home ground so we can make the game more even. Good logic
Hawthorn win 15% more at home. Is it fair that they are gifted games all year?
The main difference there is the number of games you get on your home ground with a obvious advantageLet's keep it simple.
Geelong home ground, Simmons Stadium, played 8 lost 1.
Richmonds home ground, MCG, played 12 lost 2.
so Geelong's home ground advantage by % is better than Richmond's....
It's simplistic but if you bang on about home ground advantage.
Richmond will play 14 MCG games this season.... West Coast – 12 home games, Sydney 11, Port 11 etc.The main difference there is the number of games you get on your home ground with a obvious advantage
You forget we get more games with a disadvantage and you get more games with a advantage in them overallRichmond will play 14 MCG games this season.... West Coast – 12 home games, Sydney 11, Port 11 etc.
The difference being only 4 of those games will be real home ground advantage, i.e. against sides that do not play the MCG often like GWS/West Coast etc.
The other games are against co-tenants like Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, or regulars like Saints and Doggies (who have been playing there forever). No home ground advantage against Collingwood wouldn't you say. So if anything, our home ground advantage is less than say West Coasts / Sydney etc.
Even Geelong who everyone is using as an excuse of home ground advantage play 7 games at the MCG.
14 (Rich) vs 12 (W.C) is hardly a large advantage. And given that in 14 of those we play at the MCG, 7 of those games are against co-tenants, i.e. sides that we have no home ground advantage over. So we play 7 games against sides like West Coast, and I will concede we have an advantage over sides like St.Kilda and the Dogs, but nothing like the home ground advantage that interstate sides have where a visiting team will play 1 game per season at that interstate venue.You forget we get more games with a disadvantage and you get more games with a advantage in them overall
You have definitely got a large advantage over the Saints, north and Dogs
You are advantaged in more games than you are disadvantaged.14 (Rich) vs 12 (W.C) is hardly a large advantage. And given that in 14 of those we play at the MCG, 7 of those games are against co-tenants, i.e. sides that we have no home ground advantage over. So we play 7 games against sides like West Coast, and I will concede we have an advantage over sides like St.Kilda and the Dogs, but nothing like the home ground advantage that interstate sides have where a visiting team will play 1 game per season at that interstate venue.
I'm sorry, but if you can't see that playing home games against Essendon or Collingwood is no advantage then that is strange. Of course interstate sides like WC and Adelaide are disadvantaged by not playing more at the MCG, especially when playing finals. But the argument that we get through the home and away with an advantage because we play more games at the MCG is incorrect. You for example play 12 games with a home ground advantage. I am not talking just ground size, no surface/dimensions are that much of an advantage. But umpiring certainly is as the figures bear out, normally favouring the home team. (Richmond are a strange anomaly because we were bottom of the league in free kick advantages, so in that respect home ground didn't advantage us). So your home advantage helps you through the season and not at finals. Of course you travel a lot more which is again difficult. It is not an even playing field. But to discredit our finals win due entirely to home ground advantage which some posters have said, is nonsense.You are advantaged in more games than you are disadvantaged.
We are advantaged in the same number of games that we are disadvantaged in
The only teams that are given anything in finals are mcg tenants
I understand that there is no advantage playing fellow tenants but would you consider it an advantage playing Geelong at home?I'm sorry, but if you can't see that playing home games against Essendon or Collingwood is no advantage then that is strange. Of course interstate sides like WC and Adelaide are disadvantaged by not playing more at the MCG, especially when playing finals. But the argument that we get through the home and away with an advantage because we play more games at the MCG is incorrect. You for example play 12 games with a home ground advantage. I am not talking just ground size, no surface/dimensions are that much of an advantage. But umpiring certainly is as the figures bear out, normally favouring the home team. (Richmond are a strange anomaly because we were bottom of the league in free kick advantages, so in that respect home ground didn't advantage us). So your home advantage helps you through the season and not at finals. Of course you travel a lot more which is again difficult. It is not an even playing field. But to discredit our finals win due entirely to home ground advantage which some posters have said, is nonsense.
Two variables are not controlled for in that chart, both from the bias in the fixture. Geelong tends to play:Oh boy! No, that's not how the maths works. You have managed to combine misreading the graph with double counting.
First, the difference between Richmond's home & away win performance is 5.5%, not 10%:
That's one of the smallest in the league, and why the "MCG queens" argument is a weird one.
Geelong does have a big advantage at the Cattery! (Although they are 0-1 for finals.) That is 28.6%. So you could reasonably conclude that they'd be a significantly better shot if they got to play all their finals there.
Yes a slight advantage. But given they played 7 games at the G, and they have won umpteen finals and GF's, they are hardly strangers to the ground. I don't think it was a 50 pt difference. People are looking for thin excuses. We peaked at the right time, everything aligned and we won.I understand that there is no advantage playing fellow tenants but would you consider it an advantage playing Geelong at home?
Agreed, stats don't take into account many aspects of a game/season.Two variables are not controlled for in that chart, both from the bias in the fixture. Geelong tends to play:
1. A much higher proportion of interstate teams at its main home ground, in comparison to other Victorian teams
2. On average, a weaker standard of teams at its main home ground, in comparison to all teams
These factors help to overstate Geelong's dominance at its main home ground (in comparison to other sides) and thus overstate the Cats' advantage at the ground.
"Stats" are just measures of activity. They can take into account anything that is measurable.Agreed, stats don't take into account many aspects of a game/season.
Sorry but not having to play them on their home ground where you haven’t won in 16 years is a bit more than a slight advantageYes a slight advantage. But given they played 7 games at the G, and they have won umpteen finals and GF's, they are hardly strangers to the ground. I don't think it was a 50 pt difference. People are looking for thin excuses. We peaked at the right time, everything aligned and we won.
We'd actually beaten them more recently in Geelong then at the MCG I believe.Sorry but not having to play them on their home ground where you haven’t won in 16 years is a bit more than a slight advantage