International Development

[TWLS]

Id be delighted for you to provide any figures in the AFL annual reports that indicate funding levels internationally. let alone a comparison.

That is what everybody with only a slight interest in International Footy wants to know.
A. The total level of actual grassroots funding Internationally- Which AFL House refuses to publish. There have been GUESSES ranging from 1 million to 2 million dollars
B. A country by country breakdown on Participation numbers- They only list the total numbers and a side figure. AFL House again refuses to publish the actual country numbers, but heres the thing they used to several years ago because I once had a copy, when International numbers were a lot lower than now.
You alone will have more clout and connections to get this stuff.

 

[TWLS]

So where is the NFL, CFL or GAA investing in grassroots overseas. Obviously not everywhere !

Well I will give you a snippett or two because you are either lazy or do not know how to research or comprehend, which is likely on all counts.
From the GAA --
The GAA has developed abroad amongst the Irish Diaspora.The Irish who emigrated brought their national games with them and both regional and club units are now well established in the United States of America, Australia,Britain, Canada, China, mainland Europe and many other parts of the world.

400 clubs promote the activities of the GAA around the world.As with all aspects of Irish society, the GAA has undergone many changes in the past 40 years. Among the first major changes to take place was the removal of ‘the Ban’ in 1971,which had prevented members of the Association from playing or attending a number of other sports such as soccer and rugby.

Does our game have 400 International Clubs at this time, who have Women players and also promote Juniors, and have Development Officers attached in some places. They actually conduct training courses for Global Development officers - How dare they.

Here is how they fund their GLOBAL activities. Global gets mentioned a lot in their culture - Compare with the AFL attitude - Simples.
http://www.gaa.ie/news/2017-global-games-development-fund-launched/
Ireland has a small population and a smallish economy but are determined that their culture and sports will prosper in any way possible.

 

[TWLS]

I don’t know if this has been asked or answered, I was wondering how much was being spent in school footy internationally. Because in my logical mind, if you wish to grow the game, the main demographic should be aimed at schools. With the long term goal to establish international talent coming through the schools that have been invested in.

Yes you are quite right with your question.
One answer is - School footy investment varies greatly country by country but its very patchy overall. Some countries focus on Auskick programs as well.
However there is no co-ordinated approach overall.

 

[RedV3x]

Well I will give you a ...

Another very childish reply. I am very well aware of the extent of Gaelic Football around the world.
That was NOT the question was in yet again "So where is the NFL, CFL or GAA investing in grassroots overseas. "

Investing , investing, investing. Got it you were talking about the investment by various codes in their football
not in the organic growth of football which you seem to have little understanding of.

 

[RedV3x]

Well it's not a combine but I agree with your point, which is the point that TWLS was making the other day. I have no problem with these academy tours at all but my understanding is they have previously played games against local grass roots teams (I think I heard they played a pan european side a few years ago). It seems a no brainer and relatively low cost they could pull together say the US national team for a game

Another example is they sent a VFA side to Ireland to play IR but did not engage the local ARFI football teams
but waited untill they arrived in London to do so.

I agree that these combines are beneficial to the AFL and previously they attracted some media attention but these days
there seems to be on effort made to engage local resources through games, appearances or tasks etc.
Local clubs would love to be involved if only to watch.

 

[RedV3x]

Glad to see your catching up. This has been happening for years.

Please desist with your childish comments.
The point was about not about combines but the sending of an Australian squad over.
This has NOT "been happening for years."
The point was about the sending of an Australian squad over but the lack of local interaction.
Again , please desist with your childish actions.

 

[NoobPie]

Another example is they sent a VFA side to Ireland to play IR but did not engage the local ARFI football teams
but waited untill they arrived in London to do so.

I agree that these combines are beneficial to the AFL and previously they attracted some media attention but these days
there seems to be on effort made to engage local resources through games, appearances or tasks etc.
Local clubs would love to be involved if only to watch.

Actually it was the VAFA that sent a side that apparently did play a game against AFL Europe

http://www.vafa.com.au/latest-news/murray-lead-2017-big-v-ireland-tour/

 

[TWLS]

Another very childish reply. I am very well aware of the extent of Gaelic Football around the world.
That was NOT the question was in yet again "So where is the NFL, CFL or GAA investing in grassroots overseas. "

Investing , investing, investing. Got it you were talking about the investment by various codes in their football
not in the organic growth of football which you seem to have little understanding of.

You very obviously did not read the excellent GAA review I put down.
The section on the GAA Global Development Fund is where the money for grassroots investments come from, and you conveniently ignored the fact that the GAA has 400 Clubs internationally and expanding who operate at the grassroots level using that funding for investing.
If you want individual Club investing contact the GAA
This topic has now reached the boring stage - End of.

 

[RedV3x]

Actually it was the VAFA that sent a side that apparently did play a game against AFL Europe

Yes, the VAFA. All that expense and they didn't play Australian Football in Ireland to my knowledge.
You would have thought they could have strung a representative side together or local side for a bit of exposure.
These teams are crying out for stuff like that.

 

[NoobPie]

Well I will give you a snippett or two because you are either lazy or do not know how to research or comprehend, which is likely on all counts.
From the GAA --
The GAA has developed abroad amongst the Irish Diaspora.The Irish who emigrated brought their national games with them and both regional and club units are now well established in the United States of America, Australia,Britain, Canada, China, mainland Europe and many other parts of the world.

400 clubs promote the activities of the GAA around the world.As with all aspects of Irish society, the GAA has undergone many changes in the past 40 years. Among the first major changes to take place was the removal of ‘the Ban’ in 1971,which had prevented members of the Association from playing or attending a number of other sports such as soccer and rugby.

Does our game have 400 International Clubs at this time, who have Women players and also promote Juniors, and have Development Officers attached in some places. They actually conduct training courses for Global Development officers - How dare they.

Here is how they fund their GLOBAL activities. Global gets mentioned a lot in their culture - Compare with the AFL attitude - Simples.
http://www.gaa.ie/news/2017-global-games-development-fund-launched/
Ireland has a small population and a smallish economy but are determined that their culture and sports will prosper in any way possible.

Actually, I'm not sure this necessarily supports your case. The article sites a figure of 250 euros which is substantially below the AFL's international funding and it is a joint matched fund with the irish government so the GAA is only funding half of it.

Ireland has a small population but a bigger diaspora than Australia. I agree they place a greater premium on the flourishing of their own culture though. I think the Australian government should provide a similar matched funding arrangement with the AFL but I think the cultural cringe and the code wars would likely make that a non starter outside of discreet Aide spending in the south pacific and south africa.

The AFL does employee full time development officers in the south pacific btw

 

[jatz14]

Well I will give you a snippett or two because you are either lazy or do not know how to research or comprehend, which is likely on all counts.
From the GAA --
The GAA has developed abroad amongst the Irish Diaspora.The Irish who emigrated brought their national games with them and both regional and club units are now well established in the United States of America, Australia,Britain, Canada, China, mainland Europe and many other parts of the world.

400 clubs promote the activities of the GAA around the world.As with all aspects of Irish society, the GAA has undergone many changes in the past 40 years. Among the first major changes to take place was the removal of ‘the Ban’ in 1971,which had prevented members of the Association from playing or attending a number of other sports such as soccer and rugby.

Does our game have 400 International Clubs at this time, who have Women players and also promote Juniors, and have Development Officers attached in some places. They actually conduct training courses for Global Development officers - How dare they.

Here is how they fund their GLOBAL activities. Global gets mentioned a lot in their culture - Compare with the AFL attitude - Simples.
http://www.gaa.ie/news/2017-global-games-development-fund-launched/
Ireland has a small population and a smallish economy but are determined that their culture and sports will prosper in any way possible.

First, you say 400 GAA clubs overseas as a form of investment, you do realise they just call an Irish football team a GAA club, it doesn't mean it has anything to do with the GAA beyond being the same sport. It would be like calling the US teams AFL teams and saying this represents a huge AFL investment.

The funding in that link would be rock bottom for mind, it is significantly less than even the lowest estimates of AFL overseas investment.

GAA spread like footy spread, organically, and I think you will find that the bulk of the 400 are in the US due to the size of the Irish diaspora there.

The 'investment' by the GAA represents about 300 per club. To all intents and purposes, there is no GAA investment overseas beyond a token amount.

Sent from my Lenovo TB3-710F using Tapatalk

 

[BringBackTorps]

Yes, the VAFA. All that expense and they didn't play Australian Football in Ireland to my knowledge.
You would have thought they could have strung a representative side together or local side for a bit of exposure.
These teams are crying out for stuff like that.

The VAFA teams to Ireland are only there for a few weeks. They can often play up to 4 International Rules games, the first three are IR warm-up games -the final game is considered the ultimate test, against a top GAA side. They probably believe they don't have the time for an AF game against an Irish AF team.
I do sympathise with your point that local Irish AF players would love to play AF against a VAFA team. The Irish would probably be thrashed, though -too demoralising?

The VAFA has also sent U19 teams to NZ -to play AF against a top NZ combined adult team.

Your demeaning language to other posters here is completely unwarranted, & reflects poorly on you. There is a small community of posters who contribute to these International forums. Abusing people can only, possibly, cause some to not want to contribute.

 

[RedV3x]

The VAFA teams to Ireland are only there for a few weeks. They can often play up to 4 International Rules games, the first three are IR warm-up games -the final game is considered the ultimate test, against a top GAA side. They probably believe they don't have the time for an AF game against an Irish AF team.
I do sympathise with your point that local Irish AF players would love to play AF against a VAFA team. The Irish would probably be thrashed, though -too demoralising?

Even an Irish representative would be thrashed as you suggest, but then the team went on to play football games.
So I don't think that's an issue. I don't understand the reasoning behind the trip.
I don't see the Irish reciprocating by sending a youth team to Australia.
And as I've said previously I don't see the AFL getting any leverage out of these IR games
like the Irish have attempted to do. Why is one way traffic ?

The VAFA has also sent U19 teams to NZ -to play AF against a top NZ combined adult team.

Yes and that seems to be everything that the Irish trip isn't - football, beneficial and promotional (as well as sound defeats).

Your demeaning language to other posters here is completely unwarranted, & reflects poorly on you.

I answer personal attacks with attacks on that person's logic not their character.
Attacks on personal character are completely off-putting to the international football community.

 

[TWLS]

We have just done some research on the International Cricket Council which we found very interesting.
On their Web site they are claiming over 100 member Countries from 5 Regions, which presumably means access to suitable playing areas – Cricket Ovals, which could be enclosed or not.
We wont list the Countries here but it seems a lot of facilities maybe available for our game, and our game currently has to resort to all sorts of various work arounds just to get games underway.
Of course this is where the AFL International Development Department comes in or should.
The AFL could approach the ICC and start some initial talks about access or not and this would open up a whole new area for possibilities.
However this would mean a change of direction from the current AFL strategy of organic growth.

Any comments/ideas welcome

 

[RedV3x]

We have just done some research on the International Cricket Council which we found very interesting.
On their Web site they are claiming over 100 member Countries from 5 Regions, which presumably means access to suitable playing areas – Cricket Ovals, which could be enclosed or not.
We wont list the Countries here but it seems a lot of facilities maybe available for our game, and our game currently has to resort to all sorts of various work arounds just to get games underway.
Of course this is where the AFL International Development Department comes in or should.
The AFL could approach the ICC and start some initial talks about access or not and this would open up a whole new area for possibilities.
However this would mean a change of direction from the current AFL strategy of organic growth.

Any comments/ideas welcome

Why don't you approach the AFL with this idea ?

 

[TWLS]

Why don't you approach the AFL with this idea ?

I think they would listen and probably say not at this time, however do not know for sure.
To have all those Cricket facilities available the mind boggles which would require a huge outlay by the AFL to set it up with grassroot teams etc, however it maybe possible to do it in small doses, as one country at a time.
I would not be the first to come up with this no doubt and probably approaches would have been made before.

 

[Over The Post]

It is quite normal for us to coexist with cricket clubs, obviously there are problems due to the overlap of seasons. The cricket guys do not want their pristine surfaces chopped up by thugs in studded boots, and the footy guys want to have a preseason and/or play finals without being hassled by the namby-pamby ball chuckers. Junction Oval is a classic case where conflict over dual use eventually led to the cricketers retaining it as a year-round ground.

Where there isn't a large budget for groundsmen, upkeep of an oval and retention of the playing surface can be a big issue. And in places where there is no sharply defined winter/summer, they tend to play cricket all year.

It's an interesting thought.

 

[RedV3x]

the AFL to set it (cricket ovals) up with grassroot teams etc, .

How does the AFL (or anybody for that matter) do that ?

 

[RedV3x]

"Central Broward Regional Park and Central Broward Stadium is a large county park in Lauderhill, Florida, owned and operated by Broward County. It opened on November 9, 2007, at a construction cost of $70 million.



The Main Event Field was the home of the Fort Lauderdale Fighting Squids of the United States Australian Football League in 2008.
In 2015 the venue hosted the 10th edition of the 49th Parallel Cup, an annual Australian Football match between the USA and Canada." -wiki



TWLS, you might research how much football is played on this superb oval.

 

[RedV3x]

Exhibition matches
Date Location Stadium Competition Teams Attendance
3/11/2012 London, England The Oval AFL Post-season exhibition - AFL European Challenge[11] Western Bulldogs vs. Port Adelaide 10,000[12]
17/10/2010 Shanghai, China Jiangwan Stadium Exhibition match - "Shanghai Showdown" Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions[13] 7,100
9/02/2008 Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates Ghantoot Polo and Racing Club NAB Cup Collingwood vs Adelaide[14] 6,102[15]
2/02/2008 Centurion, Gauteng, South Africa SuperSport Park AFL pre-season practice Carlton vs Fremantle 3,500[16] - 5,222[17] (reports vary)
21/10/2006 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Geelong v. Port Adelaide 12,129
15/1/2006 Los Angeles, USA Intramural Field,UCLA AFL pre-season practice Kangaroos v. Sydney 3,200 (sell-out)
8/10/2005 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition West Coast Eagles v. Fremantle 18,884
11/10/2003 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Fremantle 12,847
12/10/2002 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Richmond v. Essendon 13,000
17/2/2001 Wellington, New Zealand Westpac Stadium 2001 pre-season cup game – group stage Brisbane Lions v. Adelaide 7,500
7/10/2000 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. Adelaide 4,500
29/01/2000 Wellington, New Zealand Westpac Stadium Pre-season cup game - group stage Round 1 Western Bulldogs v. Hawthorn 11,666
9/10/1999 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Essendon v. Hawthorn 12,000+
10/10/1998 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Western Bulldogs v. St Kilda 12,000
1/03/1998 Wellington, New Zealand Basin Reserve Melbourne v. Sydney 7,820
22/02/1998 Cape Town, South Africa Newlands Cricket Ground Brisbane v. Fremantle 10,123
12/10/1997 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition West Coast v. Collingwood 14,000
16/10/1994 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Richmond v. Carlton and Adelaide v West Coast 6,000
13/10/1991 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition West Coast v. Hawthorn 10,000
5/10/1991 Auckland, New Zealand AFL post season exhibition Geelong v. St Kilda 8,500
14/10/1990 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Essendon 9,000
12/10/1990 Portland, USA Civic Stadium AFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. West Coast 14,787
22/10/1989 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. Essendon 12,000
14/10/1989 Miami, USA Joe Robbie Stadium VFL post season exhibition Essendon v. Hawthorn 10,069
12/10/1989 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Toronto Skydome VFL post season exhibition Geelong v. Melbourne 24,639
16/10/1988 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Varsity Stadium VFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Hawthorn 18,500
9/10/1988 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Hawthorn v. Carlton 10,000
8/10/1988 Miami, USA Joe Robbie Stadium VFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Geelong 7,500
25/10/1987 Yokohama, Japan Yokohama Stadium VFL post season exhibition Hawthorn v. Essendon 13,000
18/10/1987 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada B.C. Place VFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. North Melbourne 7,980
11/10/1987 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Carlton v. North Melbourne ?
9/10/1987 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada B.C. Place VFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. Sydney 32,789 (record to date)
3/11/1986 Yokohama, Japan Yokohama Stadium VFL post season exhibition Carlton v. Hawthorn 25,000
12/10/1986 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Carlton v. North Melbourne ?
29/10/1972 London, England The Oval Postseason World Tour Carlton v. All-Stars 9,000
05/11/1972 Athens, Greece Postseason World Tour Carlton v. All-Stars 3,000
12/11/1972 Singapore Postseason World Tour Carlton v. All-Stars 8,500
1969 New Delhi WAFL practice East Perth v. Subiaco 3,500
1967 London, England Crystal Palace National Sports Centre Australian Football World Tour Australia vs Britain (expat) ?
26/10/1963 San Francisco, USA Big Rec Stadium Geelong v. Melbourne 3,500
20/10/1963 Honolulu, USA Geelong v. Melbourne 1,500

from wiki again. TWLS you might research how each exhibition game has boosted Australian Football.

.

 

[RedV3x]

The dimensions for an olympic track are 84.5m + 2 X 35.5m + 2 X 8 X 1.2m = 177.5m
Maybe TWLS you could research the availability of using running tracks as football ovals.



The L.A. Collesium before alterations.

 

[Over The Post]

Too narrow unfortunately. With the boundary 3m from the running track you're looking at only 67m wide. Better to look at AFLX on such a ground.

 

[RedV3x]

Too narrow unfortunately. With the boundary 3m from the running track you're looking at only 67m wide. Better to look at AFLX on such a ground.

2 x 36.5m + 2 x 8 x 1.2 = 93m wide by 177.5m long.

That's decent for 16-a-side Australian Football as we're talking venues like cricket ovals.

 

[RedV3x]

you're looking at only 67m wide. Better to look at AFLX on such a ground.

" Ten quick facts about AFLX. Played on a rectangular field (approx. 70m width x 110m length)." from GCFC

That rules out the smaller NFL and CFL grounds. It's also bigger than soccer and rugby grounds necessitating removal of posts.
A lot 9-a-side of football is played on rugby grounds. If the posts could be removed that gives 120m as a against 100m.
That extra 20m would make a huge difference to representative 9-a-side football and I have suggested just that.
Unfortunately nobody wants to undertake that at grassroots level.
For some reason rugby clubs are more amenable to sharing their facilities than soccer clubs.
Soccer fields allow more flexibility except places like Villers Bretonneux where the posts are permanent.

 

[Gigantor]

" Ten quick facts about AFLX. Played on a rectangular field (approx. 70m width x 110m length)." from GCFC

That rules out the smaller NFL and CFL grounds. It's also bigger than soccer and rugby grounds necessitating removal of posts.
A lot 9-a-side of football is played on rugby grounds. If the posts could be removed that gives 120m as a against 100m.
That extra 20m would make a huge difference to representative 9-a-side football and I have suggested just that.
Unfortunately nobody wants to undertake that at grassroots level.
For some reason rugby clubs are more amenable to sharing their facilities than soccer clubs.
Soccer fields allow more flexibility except places like Villers Bretonneux where the posts are permanent.

I've always thought something similar, that rugby grounds are at least 112m long (including the end zones), and if you can easily take one set of posts out and put another set at the very end of the ground (or even a metre behind the end line so that the holes are right out of the way), you create a good sized ground for the small version of the game (be that 7-a-side or 9-a-side).

Mind you, the four remaining holes on the footy field would be quite dangerous.

I've always wondered whether overseas rugby clubs, especially in places like the UK, France and Italy, would be amenable to allowing another sport use their field in their off-season.