Society/Culture Greens vow to move Australia Day

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The question I responded to was asking how could anyone SUPPORT the statements written in that Facebook post. My response was about being swept up in ideology, or perhaps even victim mentality if you want to be very crude about it, which manifests in a hatred of every perceived institutional barrier placed in between you and your happiness or prosperity. It is nothing to do with not working hard enough or being lazy, it's about not having the required introspection to recognise when the responsibility for your life in western culture ultimately falls on the way you conduct yourself and the attitudes you take. You don't buy into those messages on whole unless you're first response for all the ills of the world is to turn to the faceless ghosts and tell them it's their fault! By definition, these people organising communities of common interest around these ideologies of anti-establishment and anti-western politics aren't lazy, since they are actively doing a whole lot more than you or I likely are. I'm not suggesting they are lazy at all - I'm saying their efforts are misplaced.
*looks at Donald Trump*

Not everyone would share your utopian view.
 

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Mine is distinctly anti-utopian. As Peterson said, life is suffering. The aim is to better it.
Peterson is an idiot.

Not sure why you think quoting him adds anything to your argument.

Try living for a week in this country as an indigenous person and then tell me if you believe only the right amount of introspection is required to be treated equally.
 
May 8, 2012
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WTF?

That's one of the most ridiculous characterisations of the "left" I've ever heard.

These general critiques didn't come from me they come from Plato et al. They had 800 odd years of it so I think they knew a thing or two.

And he spends a lot of time telling people that the truth is somewhere in the middle, found by getting your own act together and improving yourself.

That's almost certainly true and free speech facilitates that. As Mill said, "He who only knows his side of the case, knows very little of that". He understood the limitation and bias of human thinking, but when we push against each other we usually find the right answer.
 
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Word salad rhetoric and claims of 'outrage' etc are usually the territory of far left and far right extremists.

Bit of a non-sequitur.

Surely he would be saying 'stop fractionalising your victimhood, including perceived injustice incurred by your ancestors in years gone by. Changing a date is pointless. Regardless of what has passed, get your own act together and improve yourself.

Mine is distinctly anti-utopian. As Peterson said, life is suffering. The aim is to better it.

I'm more of a utopian but it ends up in the same place. I will contemplate this.
 
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Peterson is an idiot.

Not sure why you think quoting him adds anything to your argument.

Try living for a week in this country as an indigenous person and then tell me if you believe only the right amount of introspection is required to be treated equally.
Haha no mate. He is no idiot. If you honestly think that you'd be one of very few who did.

Again though, you're taking a comment I made about being swept up into ideological possession and trying to apply it to other things to win an argument I'm not making.
 
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Surely he would be saying 'stop fractionalising your victimhood, including perceived injustice incurred by your ancestors in years gone by. Changing a date is pointless. Regardless of what has passed, get your own act together and improve yourself.
I dunno, I reckon if you presented him with a hypothetical like this:

"You are a native of Juddland with an ancestry there of 30,000 years plus. But 300 years ago, colonists from Koutaland arrived uninvited and decided to make new towns. After 150 years or so, the Koutaland people living in Juddland decided to break away from Koutaland, and after years of arguing, decided together to call this new place Jezzaville. Your fellow people all over Juddland were treated as sub-human for a long time - well into the establishment of Jezzaville - where the ex-Koutaland people basically wanted to eradicate your kind there altogether for a while.

Now, if Jezzaville decided to celebrate Jezza Day on the date the Koutaland people first came to Southland, would that make you feel OK? Would it make sense?"

Peterson would probably say "Well, it doesn't make a lot of sense to celebrate Jezza Day on the date of a relatively unimportant event 300 years ago, and I'd probably harbour some resentment towards Jezzaville for picking that day. Ultimately that resentment could be the death of me, and it's something I need to overcome, but it only seems fair and logical for Jezzaville to celebrate Jezza Day on a date that actually matters to Jezzaville".

Or maybe that's just what I'd say.

Side note, those new names were ******* s**t. Confused myself for a while there.
 
Haha no mate. He is no idiot. If you honestly think that you'd be one of very few who did.
Well if exploitation for personal gain makes you 'smart' then he's smart.

Outside of far-right publications & media I haven't seen one person that remotely agrees with him. Certainly nobody whose opinion I'd respect.

Again though, you're taking a comment I made about being swept up into ideological possession and trying to apply it to other things to win an argument I'm not making.
"Ideological possession"?

Don't tell me . . . you're parroting Peterson again. :$
 
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Well if exploitation for personal gain makes you 'smart' then he's smart.

Outside of far-right publications & media I haven't seen one person that remotely agrees with him. Certainly nobody whose opinion I'd respect.
Complete rubbish. But that's fine, I'm not interested in changing your mind.
"Ideological possession"?

Don't tell me . . . you're parroting Peterson again. :$
And a long history of 20th century works.
 
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Pregnancy car parks can get ******

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Are you posting about the mothers with prams carparks in shopping centres?
Back when my eldest was a baby I used to park in them.The nasty stares from indignant women:p
One even came over to yell at me that I couldn't park there,right up until I took the pram out of the boot of the car

The old V8 VK looked out of place in with the soccer mum vans and Hyundai's
 

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Apr 8, 2007
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Not going to change the date won't affect them either. Pitiful argument.
Thats the whole point. What difference does it make either way, so why is there such a big blocker against it?

SMH, the idiocy of some people beggars belief. Not of you medusala, it's stock standard from someone who doesn't know anything beyond poor neocon policies and the inside of their own house.
 

medusala

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Thats the whole point. What difference does it make either way, so why is there such a big blocker against it?

Great, lets change everything for no good reason. Quality logic there.

And it does make a difference. Australia Day represents something. Just like the flag does. To change that would be offensive to a great deal of people. A far greater number than the usual no hoping element like the Greens that want it changed.

This is the sort of low rent taxpayer funded balatron you are siding with. Stay classy.
'
We have not organised this to change the date. We have organised this to abolish Australia Day because f*** Australia. F*** Australia, I hope it f***ing burns to the ground,' the 24-year-old, who identifies as a Yigar Gunditjmara and Bindal woman, said. '
 
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Great, lets change everything for no good reason. Quality logic there.
Yep, thats exactly what I said.

#medusalalogic

One day it would be good for someone on the conservative side to actually have some intelligence in these conversations rather than resorting to hyperbole.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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And it does make a difference. Australia Day represents something. Just like the flag does. To change that would be offensive to a great deal of people. A far greater number than the usual no hoping element like the Greens that want it changed.
This is the sort of low rent taxpayer funded balatron you are siding with. Stay classy.
We have not organized this to change the date. We have organized this to abolish Australia Day because f*** Australia. F*** Australia, I hope it f***ing burns to the ground,' the 24-year-old, who identifies as a Yigar Gunditjmara and Bindal woman, said. '

The nomadic indigenous tribes would often times burn the bush to the ground so as to clear the land & make it fertile again, ridding it of all the weeds, the clutter & the under-growth.

I'm assuming you are switched-on enough to grasp the metaphor here Meds.
 
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I'm not asking for a six dot presentation, but some insight would be nice.

It would be like me saying "Snake_Baker, please read the following to understand the reasons against Australia becoming a republic: (a) the Australian Constitution; (b) all case law involving the interpretation of the Australian Constitution; and (c) various commentary on the Australian Constitution."

Your inability to communicate any sort of coherent discussion on the topic is ultimately my loss, as I am interested to understand why you feel so strongly on the topic and feel it would make our system of government better than what it currently is.

My "inability to communicate" is commensurate with your inability to read.

The lazy version

- A wide ranging entrenched bill of rights including peoples initiated referenda, enforced by a strict separation of powers doctrine.
- Abolition of the states and senate. Breakdown of Australian federation in to better representation. Something along the lines of Whitlam's 40 municipalities.
- A computerised direct democracy system utilised at municipal level.
- The strict obligation of elected municipal representatives to place election platforms before the "The National Council".
- I couldn't care one way or another about a designated ribbon cutter (apolitical head of state).
- Debit tax as a means of raising revenue. One level of taxation only.
 
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The nomadic indigenous tribes would often times burn the bush to the ground so as to clear the land & make it fertile again, ridding it of all the weeds, the clutter & the under-growth.

I have not found any serious data to support this notion.
 

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That's almost certainly true and free speech facilitates that. As Mill said, "He who only knows his side of the case, knows very little of that". He understood the limitation and bias of human thinking, but when we push against each other we usually find the right answer.
Either that, or all that pushing results in the "right" answer becoming the one espoused by those who pushed hardest.

Assuming you're referring to John Stuart Mill, his avocation of utilitarianism disregarded to a certain extent the fact that events and circumstances resulting in happiness vary widely among humanity, which was fairly common in the 19th century when he wrote.

Utilitarianism is subject to and dependent upon stated or implied moral positions. The Social Authority principle is unfortunately subject to the whim of the mob; or perhaps not the whim of the mob, so much as the motivation behind the formation of that mob.

... meh, I'm too pissed for this s**t.
 
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From "WARS" facebook page a group who organised the march and call it invasion day

-----------------------------------------------
In response to the attacks on WAR members and the call to burn Australia to the ground at the Naarm Abolish Australia Day Rally, we would like to issue the following statement:

**** Australia.
**** your land theft, your child stealing and your state sanctioned murders.
**** your governments, your military and your police.
**** your concentration camps dressed up as correctional facilities and immigration detention centres.
**** your economy, your greed and your cult of the almighty dollar.
**** your poisoning of water, your wholesale destruction of land and your pollution of our atmosphere.
**** your language forced upon us and violently attempting to replace our very own.
**** your white supremacy, your patriarchy and your capitalism.
**** your flag, your anthem and your precious national day.
WAR will not rest until we burn this entire rotten settler colony called Australia, illegally and violently imposed on stolen Aboriginal land at the expense of the blood of countless thousands, to the ******* ground, until every corrupt and illegal institution of white supremacist, patriarchal, capitalist settler colonial power forced upon us is no more. We will not rest until we build a society that cares for and honours the Earth, our mother, that respects the interconnectedness of all beings, that is founded on our sovereignty and responsibility to this country and the people who live on it, and that offers a place of safety and prosperity for our people and for all those oppressed and excluded by the current systems of power - refugees, people of colour, LGBTQIA people, poor people, disabled people.
Abolish Australia, not just Australia Day

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All good though. Move the date and all the aboriginal people will be running around with australia flags enjoying the day.

Doesn't this qualify as 'terrorism"?


.....and a big LOL for "refugees"
 

King Brown

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WTF?

That's one of the most ridiculous characterisations of the "left" I've ever heard.
That’s the most accurate description of the left wing possible, going back to when the term was first coined in the French Revolution.
 
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