Autopsy Hawthorn Intraclub thread , Friday 9th Feb

[RIOLINWITPUNCHS]

So how did this NicNat perform in our intra club?

Lots of talk about him in here so I assume he did quiet well .

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Natanui is very flashy and can do the freakish but he is more impact than consistent. He also has the media fawning all over him like Gerard Healy who ensured he was an AA selection. Yet McEvoys season last year was just as good but would not rate in the general populace.

 

[kazzooka]

NicNat's stats are totally irrelevant: you need to look at how effective he is: what has he done in big games?
He's taken a couple of spectacular marks: even Brendan Goddard has done that.

And apart from this, NicNat can't get on the park - that's not his fault but it's not a positive.

Goddard is a far far better player than NicNat.

Watch the 2010 grand final (first one) he was everywhere.

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[Mississippi]

I know there is danger using stats because they don't paint the full picture - just saying that I also don't buy into his 'influence' as the media likes to drum up about him. I just don't buy the hype - I know I am likely a minority here and that's fine, I just don't think he is anywhere near as good as his hype suggests.

Bloody hell 89A - I'm in heated agreement with you !
You're absolutely in the minority on this one.

Cyril is just one level below God when it comes to being influential.

Even disregarding his goal kicking, his freakish reading of the play and ability to set up team mates, his marking under pressure including pack marking, his chasing and tackling, and his subtle knock ons - sometimes too quick for the naked eye (how many times have you replayed footage of those events to actually see what he did in a split second), and even disregarding those critical moments in a game where Cyril's input has turned the momentum (such as the multiple tackles in 3 seconds on the members wing in the 2008 GF) - just his presence on the forward line within 40 metres of an opponent is often enough to panic that opponent in a hurried disposal and turnover.

 

[kazzooka]

Bloody hell 89A - I'm in heated agreement with you !
You're absolutely in the minority on this one.

Cyril is just one level below God when it comes to being influential.

Even disregarding his goal kicking, his freakish reading of the play and ability to set up team mates, his marking under pressure including pack marking, his chasing and tackling, and his subtle knock ons - sometimes too quick for the naked eye (how many times have you replayed footage of those events to actually see what he did in a split second), and even disregarding those critical moments in a game where Cyril's input has turned the momentum (such as the multiple tackles in 3 seconds on the members wing in the 2008 GF) - just his presence on the forward line within 40 metres of an opponent is often enough to panic that opponent in a hurried disposal and turnover.

When you say Cyril is one level below God are you referring to Ablett snr? In which case it's quite the complement.

However if you are talking about "God" the fictional character from the bible it's extremely insulting to say Cyril has less than zero influence on games.

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[Off The Couch]

he never gets outmuscled and is dependable week in week out

Really!!!
We must be watching a different bloke

 

[Mississippi]

When you say Cyril is one level below God are you referring to Ablett snr? In which case it's quite the complement.

However if you are talking about "God" the fictional character from the bible it's extremely insulting to say Cyril has less than zero influence on games.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Now there's a philosophical question !
I'm a strong devotee of Richard Dawkins. The God Delusion should be compulsory reading for every secondary student.

So even though God, as such, doesn't exist, it's impossible to overstate how much influence this non-existent deity has had on mankind.
So I stand by my initial comments - except to stress that Cyril's influence has all been for the good.

 

[LukeHodge15]

If you're having this kind of debate, it would also be worth considering what each would add to the opposing team - i.e. what if Mitchell was getting service from NicNat, or what if WCE had the option of BigBoy dropping into their backline to take marks?

Personally, I think NicNat would make our midfield extremely dangerous, never mind the damage he can do up forward crashing every pack with his athleticism, bringing the ball down to our elite crumbers.

Well Said.

Added in.

NitNat is like having an extra midfielder at the coal face, his contested footy numbers are that good.

NitNats ruck work taps Iirc run at 50%, elite of all Ruckman vs McEvoys mid 30s%.

NitNat on 1 million a year plus ambassador money.
McEvoy Probably on half of that if he is lucky.

 

[LukeHodge15]

NicNat plays well in Bursts, but too often he has his head down and doesnt impact a game, thats when he isnt injured (btw he is injury prone)

McEvoy is a strong solid ruckman who is elite when it comes to marking in general play, he never gets outmuscled and is dependable week in week out

now for Burst brilliance NicNat is fun to watch, but i prefer a guy who is always solid in the ruck and has amazing marking ability in McEvoy

He isnt injury prone.... What a joke. He did his acl, besides that he has been 20 games plus every year bar one.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Bloody hell 89A - I'm in heated agreement with you !
You're absolutely in the minority on this one.

Cyril is just one level below God when it comes to being influential.

Even disregarding his goal kicking, his freakish reading of the play and ability to set up team mates, his marking under pressure including pack marking, his chasing and tackling, and his subtle knock ons - sometimes too quick for the naked eye (how many times have you replayed footage of those events to actually see what he did in a split second), and even disregarding those critical moments in a game where Cyril's input has turned the momentum (such as the multiple tackles in 3 seconds on the members wing in the 2008 GF) - just his presence on the forward line within 40 metres of an opponent is often enough to panic that opponent in a hurried disposal and turnover.

The post I quoted I was talking about NicNat not Cyril. Mate I love Cyril - I have 33 on my guernsey - I would never blaspheme around here and say Cyril was all hype or influence on games!

 

[LukeHodge15]

I feel it were a trade scenario I think we would need mcevoy + a first rounder to secure nicnat

West Coast would still want more imo

 

[Mississippi]

The post I quoted I was talking about NicNat not Cyril. Mate I love Cyril - I have 33 on my guernsey - I would never blaspheme around here and say Cyril was all hype or influence on games!

My apologies
I thought it was a strange post

 

[Ned Ryerson]

My apologies
I thought it was a strange post

All good! There's plenty of minority opinions I hold - doubting the greatness of Cyril is not one of them!

 

[Rev08]

Now there's a philosophical question !
I'm a strong devotee of Richard Dawkins. The God Delusion should be compulsory reading for every secondary student.

So even though God, as such, doesn't exist, it's impossible to overstate how much influence this non-existent deity has had on mankind.
So I stand by my initial comments - except to stress that Cyril's influence has all been for the good.

Ah, The God Delusion. One of the most poorly researched books of our time. It’s like surveying Essendon supporters on whether Andrew McGrath is a good footballer or not and then using that data to claim he had a better season than Ryan Burton. I just love that people read that book and treat it as there own bible of sorts without doing any sort of fact checking.

I digress though.

 

[B&GBlood]

Ah, The God Delusion. One of the most poorly researched books of our time. It’s like surveying Essendon supporters on whether Andrew McGrath is a good footballer or not and then using that data to claim he had a better season than Ryan Burton. I just love that people read that book and treat it as there own bible of sorts without doing any sort of fact checking.

I digress though.

Big claim, tell us why it is wrong.

 

[Mississippi]

Ah, The God Delusion. One of the most poorly researched books of our time. It’s like surveying Essendon supporters on whether Andrew McGrath is a good footballer or not and then using that data to claim he had a better season than Ryan Burton. I just love that people read that book and treat it as there own bible of sorts without doing any sort of fact checking.

I digress though.

Really? Is that right?
Many, like me, would say it's a well considered and intelligent book although it certainly got up the nose of many pious Christians and Muslims and others.
If you base your life on faith-based religious concepts - and run out to pray every time there's a slaughter in an American school or on a bus in Jerusalem - then certainly a book with a premise focused on atheism is not for you.

Personally I'd rather base my faith on something more grounded such as the next Hawthorn flag.

 

[B&GBlood]

Ah, The God Delusion. One of the most poorly researched books of our time. It’s like surveying Essendon supporters on whether Andrew McGrath is a good footballer or not and then using that data to claim he had a better season than Ryan Burton. I just love that people read that book and treat it as there own bible of sorts without doing any sort of fact checking.

I digress though.

Funnily enough there are no "facts" to check in the religious texts, hyperbole and hearsay, merely recorded as fact, often centuries after the alleged events had taken place.

 

[grumbleguts]

Stop it. Even if the game is with Libba in Vietnam on a footy trip ur never taking Big Boy over Nit Nat.... Ever

I wouldn't take nicnat even if I didn't have a ruckman. What a completely useless waste of space on a football field.

The guy averages 1.9 marks per game. Absolute spectator.

People keep saying he is a superstar, but from what I've seen the 2015 GF was a pretty typical Nicnat match.

 

[Argy]

Funnily enough there are no "facts" to check in the religious texts, hyperbole and hearsay, merely recorded as fact, often centuries after the alleged events had taken place.

And often what purports to be facts - like the six days of creation or the sun standing still for the Israelites to defeat their enemy - are just plain wrong. Although in the eye of the believer, of course, fake facts are reclassified as "allegory" or poetry.

 

[Thaihawk]

Having read all the pros and cons of Nit Nat, I have a question. Who would you take, Nit Nat or Majik? Take your time.

 

[LukeHodge15]

Having read all the pros and cons of Nit Nat, I have a question. Who would you take, Nit Nat or Majik? Take your time.

Mml

 

[cs124]

... Although in the eye of the believer, of course, fake facts are reclassified as "allegory" or poetry.

In general, people need something to believe in.
Back then it was magic sky fairies.
Now it’s #worthycauses.
Saves them from thinking for themselves.
Same $h1t, different era.

 

[grumbleguts]

Having read all the pros and cons of Nit Nat, I have a question. Who would you take, Nit Nat or Majik? Take your time.

Really couldn't decide, they both play exactly the same. Jump in the air to tap the ball, then stand and wonder where they should stand for the rest of then play until they notice the umpire is balling it up again and that triggers something in their hindbrain which says jump and tap again.

 

[KermitJagger]

Nic Nat in a side like GWS = extremely frightening proposition
Big Boy in a side like GWS = meh.

I love McEvoy as a player and I think he's the right type of ruckman for the Hawks but people in this thread are massively underselling Nic Nat. Buddy aside, he's the most extremely impressive impact athlete in the competition. The one knock on him is that Football isn't completely natural to him but that's minor when you look at the tools he has.

Tbh though if I was given a choice of any ruck in the comp I'd take Ryder.

 

[grumbleguts]

Nic Nat in a side like GWS = extremely frightening proposition
Big Boy in a side like GWS = meh.

I love McEvoy as a player and I think he's the right type of ruckman for the Hawks but people in this thread are massively underselling Nic Nat. Buddy aside, he's the most extremely impressive impact athlete in the competition. The one knock on him is that Football isn't completely natural to him but that's minor when you look at the tools he has.

Tbh though if I was given a choice of any ruck in the comp I'd take Ryder.

Just watch the 2015 grand final again. Watch only him, then you'll get a feel for how little impact a non-footballing athlete has on a football match.