Political Discussion

[AmericanCrow]

Healthcare is a disaster here for much the same reasons that gun control is.

Powerful lobby that buys votes.

This is not to excuse the Democrats, however. The fatal flaw with Obamacare is that it unwillingly pitted people in lower middle class with those below.

Why?

Well those below 40,000 usd got rebates to allow them to afford health care. This was the basis for Obamacare. Make coverage affordable and widespread.

Yet for those between 40-80,000 usd it caused rates to go up and you get no relief.

That was the sweet spot for republicans and one of the reasons ******* is in office

 

[Ramify]

I can see that and realised this morning that Id probably gone straight to the exteme without being very clear.

My post wasnt in answer to any particular post/er in this thread just so you know.
Im opinionated and like to hear myself type is more the go.

I guess I do feel that any opinion toward U.S Gun related violence or Gun control equates to opinion of their culture as a whole, as it is my belief that in many respects they are one in the same like a finger to a hand.
I wholeheartedly dont believe that access to advanced weaponry or the number of firearms per capita is the underlying cause behind this issue,but rather the fact that (unlike Australia and other recently anglicized countries) , the United States was founded on a culture of firearm violence from day dot. Citizens not only embracing but perpetuating it to the point where it has become a massive player in the formation of what Id consider to be the current American culture as a whole.
I dont think that many people would argue the history there?

Reckon the tenuous part of my P.O.V or argument comes, as DABM rightly identified, where I correlate their positive achievements and contribution to modern civilization , with the Violent aspect of their culture, further hypothesizing that all 3 parts make up that which is the whole, or at worst being symbiotic in nature. This conclusion I reached after a fair bit or research, observation and visits to the place along with countless hours of contemplation and personal morality checks.

Ill give you off the top of my head 2 different aspects of their culture as a quick example. Politics and Entertainment it is.
So consider how heavily influenced both have been by gun violence over the course
I.e Hollywood, toys, music, vid games, domestic and international trade, military, manufacture, the constitution etc to name but a few.
Now think of as many other aspects of their culture as you can which have been directly shaped and/or influenced to some degree by the Firearm violence culture. I cant think of many that havent. Now compare their evolutionary pathway to that of other modern first world nations and then again to historys great empires that preceded the U.S, and the pattern appears.

Im probably waffling incoherently to you by now and yet I havent even scratched the surface.
At the end of the day, as callous as it may sound to some, I dont see firearm regulation in any form having a great effect on the violent nature of the American culture,so long as more fundamental facets of the greater culture remain the same as they have done since this nations inception.

Do you think firearm regulation is going to change their Violence saturated culture?

 

[Ramify]

Any number of reasons.

But before i go on, why do you think Australia has a sense of entitlement thanks to the USA?

I assume you are not referring to the horrible cultural influence thats happened over the last 20 years.

Id consider the past 20 years a tiny fraction when trying to quantify the cultural influence America has had on the Western world since arrival.
No Im looking a bit deeper than cheesy modern pop culture.

I dont feel this entitlement is backed solely by the U.S but they are by far the biggest culprit when it comes to formenting this sense.
From whichever angle you look at it, be it our Military alliance and the Geopolitical standing we hold despite massive disproportion in population,GDP,military,export etc to many other nations, or be it the countless American born conveiniences that our rediculously cushy modern lifestyles encompass.

Could also be the way I see us shifting further away from living the "Little Aussie battler"and "Mateship" creeds toward the more Americanized mindsets of "Striving to be the best" "living the dream" and "Nothing can stand in your way".
To me the only problem here is that we as a nation havent lived the evolutionary life or accompanying struggle that those notions or cultural traits a were sporn from, and as such we dont have the character breeding required in order to properly adopt and emulate those aspects of American culture that we find so desirable,tending instead to assume it all just happens.

America has the extremes of being anything a person can dream up,to being as brutal and mean a place as any on earth.
We as a country increasingly expect the positives afforded through the first part without having to take on the second, and to my mind it just doesnt work like that. We dont just simply deserve it but I think most of us believe we do.

The American people have made many many sacrifices in order for us to live in the complacent comfort that we do.

I hope any of that epic dribble kinda makes sense. Only took one bottle of cleanskins to get down on paper.

I love my country to death and wouldnt swap it for anywhere. Im proud of the men who have come and died before us and would never try to downplay the unique struggles we ourselves have faced over time, but when comparing the history and scale of sacrifices both countries have had to make
so that we as a nation could secured the comforts and liberties we as the modern Aussie enjoy today, I feel ours pale in comparison to those made for us by the U.S.
This is just another way in which I consider us to display a sense of complacency and entitlement .

I could go on to few more , but Im out of wine and need to get some kip and have well and truely blown my monthly character allowance.

Probably wont make any sense to me in the morning either.

 

[Ramify]

Id consider the past 20 years a tiny fraction when trying to quantify the cultural influence America has had on the Western world since arrival.
No Im looking a bit deeper than cheesy modern pop culture.

I dont feel this entitlement is backed solely by the U.S but they are by far the biggest culprit when it comes to formenting this sense.
From whichever angle you look at it, be it our Military alliance and the resultant Geopolitical standing we hold despite massive disproportion in population,GDP,military,export etc to many other nations, or be it the countless American born conveiniences that our rediculously cushy modern lifestyles encompass.

Could also be the way I see us shifting further away from living the "Little Aussie battler"and "Mateship" creeds toward the more Americanized mindsets of "Striving to be the best" "living the dream" and "Nothing can stand in your way".
To me the only problem here is that we as a nation havent lived the evolutionary life or accompanying struggle that those notions or cultural traits a were sporn from, and as such we dont have the character breeding required in order to properly adopt and emulate those aspects of American culture that we find so desirable,tending instead to assume it all just happens.

America has the extremes of being anything a person can dream up,to being as brutal and mean a place as any on earth.
We as a country increasingly expect the positives afforded through the first part without having to take on the second, and to my mind it just doesnt work like that. We dont just simply deserve it but I think most of us believe we do.

The American people have made many many sacrifices in order for us to live in the complacent comfort that we do.

I hope any of that epic dribble kinda makes sense. Only took one bottle of cleanskins to get down on paper.

I love my country to death and wouldnt swap it for anywhere. Im proud of the men who have come and died before us and would never try to downplay the unique struggles we ourselves have faced over time, but when comparing the history and scale of sacrifices both countries have had to make
so that we as a nation could secured the comforts and liberties we as the modern Aussie enjoy today, I feel ours pale in comparison to those made for us by the U.S.
This is just another way in which I consider us to display a sense of complacency and entitlement .

I could go on to few more , but Im out of wine and need to get some kip and have well and truely blown my monthly character allowance.

Probably wont make any sense to me in the morning either.

 

[Markthirtytwo2]

You probably could have just liked yourself instead of quoting yourself. But cleanskins will do that to you.

 

[PrideOf]

Nick should do a Trump, interesting

A shitload of subtext in your strawman comparison, so back to my point: you think pointing out a broken system is a stunt. I pointed out that Trump did the same and won.

This is no different to Steven Marshall saying the system is broken under Labor, so we should vote for him. Xenophon is saying the system is broken under either of them.

 

[PrideOf]

Interestingly it appears more importance is placed on having a healthy arms industry than a healthy health system... Which has to deal with so many unnecessary gun injuries.

Imo, the priorities are screwed up!

I just don't get the average American argument that universal health care is bad and a gateway to the hell of socialism. Surely there are enough examples of it working well?

 

[Markthirtytwo2]

Healthcare is a disaster here for much the same reasons that gun control is.

Powerful lobby that buys votes.

This is not to excuse the Democrats, however. The fatal flaw with Obamacare is that it unwillingly pitted people in lower middle class with those below.

Why?

Well those below 40,000 usd got rebates to allow them to afford health care. This was the basis for Obamacare. Make coverage affordable and widespread.

Yet for those between 40-80,000 usd it caused rates to go up and you get no relief.

That was the sweet spot for republicans and one of the reasons ******* is in office

I wish you'd say what you really thought.

 

[Bicks]

Very good read about the hard upbringing former Labor Minister Craig Emerson endured in today's The Australian Weekend Magazine, didn't think much of him as Politician at the time but this casts a whole different light on the man himself. Taken from his book "The Boy From Baradine" released Monday.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/li...d/news-story/b82a64a73446cd1d02f882c92a631b81

‘I was not a good husband’
Former MP Craig Emerson opens up on his romance with Julia Gillard and the violent childhood that has poisoned his love life.

 

[1970crow]

There are some days I would be happy to say, you know what screw it---

Give these people the Confederate States and wash our hands of them


They can enact all the religious laws, gun rights laws, anti gay, anti immigration laws they want.

I will not only cough up money but I will also personally help build the wall between the CSA and USA.

God bless them and good luck in that Effin society.

Ohhh and one more thing--no changing your mind and trying to get into the USA

American First baby!

So Trump's wall just needs to be nudged a little northwards?

 

[Bicks]

Interesting, pity they didn't go through with it for all concerned.

 

[Bicks]

Bill Shorten the gymnast or maybe the diver...
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...out&utm_term=265370&subid=9668649&CMP=ema_632

Labor's fence-sitting on Adani has become a double backflip



Presumably there will be a period of settling to determine if attempting to be all things to all people flies with the public

Anthony Albanese and Bill Shorten are two of the many different voices in Labor’s attempted Adani pivot. Photograph: Mick Tsikas/AAP
The backflip is standard operating procedure in professional politics, we all know that, but the double backflip is a somewhat rarer event.
Yet under the cover of yet another seismic convulsion inside the Turnbull government, Bill Shorten looks to be lining up for the dubious double on the controversial Adani coal mine. After signalling quite clearly in late January that Labor would toughen its position on the project, the Labor leader has cooled off noticeably on that notion over the past week or so.
Just before David Feeney announced he would resign from parliament because he couldn’t prove he was eligible to sit in the lower house, triggering a byelection in his lower house seat of Batman, Shorten used an appearance at the National Press Club to telegraph a shift on the mine.

 

[Donkey Magoo]

https://brenebrown.com/blog/2017/11...ullshit-practicing-civility-effecting-change/

This is a pretty good article, talks about gun control but has a wider implications for politics in general.

In general terms I am a center leftie, my views are usually defined as leftist/snowflake by the right and as a sell out to the left. But I think that the best politics is played in the middle. Politics is being hijacked at the moment by extremism in basically every western democracy in the world.

 

[AmericanCrow]

So Trump's wall just needs to be nudged a little northwards?

Long as he is behind it, I will help build the damn thing.

See those lunatics with a free hand to make their ridiculous laws--would be one enjoyable sight.

Make Iran look like California

 

[Elite Crow]

A shitload of subtext in your strawman comparison, so back to my point: you think pointing out a broken system is a stunt. I pointed out that Trump did the same and won.

This is no different to Steven Marshall saying the system is broken under Labor, so we should vote for him. Xenophon is saying the system is broken under either of them.

By offering a ridiculous suggestion.

To suggest the Premier should resign if power costs dont fall by 20% is a ridiculous suggestion designed to grab the attention of idiots. So yes, a lot like Trump.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

 

[Deaneus!]

Ah, they would have got away with it too, if it weren't for those mangy kids...

Those kids have something more powerful than bullets - votes

I look forward to the mid-terms

 

[Markthirtytwo2]

Ah, they would have got away with it too, if it weren't for those mangy kids...

Those kids have something more powerful than bullets - votes

I look forward to the mid-terms

Don't forget those pesky Ruskies.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

What?

Isn't his new party built around his own ego....

 

[Deaneus!]

Elon Musk is the monorail guy from the Simpsons?

* me i’ve heard some stupid s**t in my life but that’s amazing

Cory, go google “falcon heavy launch”, then come back and tell me what you’ve accomplished, which I’m pretty sure is two fifths of * all

 

[brucetiki]

I notice the Conservatives signage is distinctly tiny in comparison to the old Family First posters. Really shows just how much money Bob Day fleeced from families building their homes to a so-called 'Family First' party...

 

[Deaneus!]

Interesting

Higher social class predicts increased unethical behavior

http://www.pnas.org/content/109/11/4086.full

 

[PrideOf]

Elon Musk is the monorail guy from the Simpsons?

**** me i’ve heard some stupid s**t in my life but that’s amazing

Cory, go google “falcon heavy launch”, then come back and tell me what you’ve accomplished, which I’m pretty sure is two fifths of **** all

I've got an uncle in his 60s who quotes all sorts of pop culture references in a vain attempt to stay cool.

Cory comes across in exactly the same way.

 

[Bicks]

Elon Musk is the monorail guy from the Simpsons?

**** me i’ve heard some stupid s**t in my life but that’s amazing

Cory, go google “falcon heavy launch”, then come back and tell me what you’ve accomplished, which I’m pretty sure is two fifths of **** all

Well notorious lefty Wendy Harmer agrees, unfortunately I can't directly link to it....she blocked me ages ago.