Rate the coaches

[mikey_san]

Dew is undefeated so surely has to be 1st...

 

[Freomaniac]

Part of it involves getting his team to play for him. He'll be the first coach that wasn't an ex-player to succeed in that. Every other time it has ended badly seemingly always being the players unable to take orders, sprays or listen to their coach in general. This is why clubs usually chase coaches with premiership backgrounds.

Really? Clarkson won 4 flags as a coach, how many flags did he win as a player? He did win a flag or 2 as Central Districts coach in the SANFL. Paul Roos won a flag as a swans coach in 2005. Did he win one as a player with Fitzroy or Sydney?

Pagan won 2 flags with North in 1996 and 1999, he didn't win a flag as a player. He did win 4 or 5 as a Reserves coach.

And anyone who rates that pathetic old chestnut 'winning percentage' over premierships should not be taken seriously.

Typical arrogant Hawks post right here. I assume that was a backhanded comment about Ross Lyon. Name the last team to make finals winning less than half of their 22 games?

You do need a "winning percentage" to make finals I think

 

[Gralin]

Really? Clarkson won 4 flags as a coach, how many flags did he win as a player? He did win a flag or 2 as Central Districts coach in the SANFL. Paul Roos won a flag as a swans coach in 2005. Did he win one as a player with Fitzroy or Sydney?

Pagan won 2 flags with North in 1996 and 1999, he didn't win a flag as a player. He did win 4 or 5 as a Reserves coach.

Typical arrogant Hawks post right here. I assume that was a backhanded comment about Ross Lyon. Name the last team to make finals winning less than half of their 22 games?

You do need a "winning percentage" to make finals I think

Couple of bounces go different ways and we wouldn't be able to make jokes about how Ross has never won a flag. You need a bit of luck to win the big one, he's certainly got there enough times, this time around with Freo will be the first time he has to build a team from the ground up though so it will be interesting to see if he can get back there and win one

 

[Freomaniac]

Couple of bounces go different ways and we wouldn't be able to make jokes about how Ross has never won a flag. You need a bit of luck to win the big one, he's certainly got there enough times, this time around with Freo will be the first time he has to build a team from the ground up though so it will be interesting to see if he can get back there and win one

Put it this way.... Look at the 2005-6 Grand finals. Paul Roos was 2 points away from winning a flag In 2006. Worsfold would of got west cost in he 2005 flag had an eagles player marked that ball in the forward 50 and kicked the goal from a set shot after the siren instead of that leo barry mark.

 

[Ambrosia]

Nah mate he played a very attacking brand early on, changed it 15/16 with a possession game and has now moved into high pressure high scoring.

He’s had three fundamental changes in his philosophy since he’s been at the club. If you’d watched the tigers over that period, even it if was just cursory, you’d know that.

Very attacking is a stretch. Richmond were until 2017 always very obviously trying to play a Hawthorn style of footy under Hardwick. I will concede the pace of play changed a bit over the years but to say Hardwick had already implemented a similar level of change previously is wrong.

 

[Gralin]

Put it this way.... Look at the 2005-6 Grand finals. Paul Roos was 2 points away from winning a flag In 2006. Worsfold would of got west cost in he 2005 flag had an eagles player marked that ball in the forward 50 and kicked the goal from a set shot after the siren instead of that leo barry mark.

yep either of those teams could have won 2, or we could have just swapped the years they won in

 

[Sir_Loin]

Very attacking is a stretch. Richmond were until 2017 always very obviously trying to play a Hawthorn style of footy under Hardwick. I will concede the pace of play changed a bit over the years but to say Hardwick had already implemented a similar level of change previously is wrong.

To say Richmond tried to emulate hawthorns style under Hardwick from the start of his coaching tenure until 2017 is BS. He certainly tried to control the game via a possession offence similar to Hawthorn 14-16. Before and after different game plans. If you can’t accept that fine.

 

[Shazza_]

When Buckley gets sacked later in the year I expect Caracella to get the Cwood job. He is a gun coach and its mind boggling that he has not had a senior gig yet

If Bombers miss finals/lose another elim can see Woosha not getting a new contract and Caracella getting the gig also

 

[mick500]

Ross Lyon for me. I'm sure he runs a very tight ship, and that would be gruellin on the players and I can see how he might lose some of them. But if you buy into what he's selling like fyfe has then you got some pretty good leadership.

Luke Beveridge won premiership with a pretty ordinary list ( blatantly umpire assisted of course) so he has to be up there.

Don Pyke, not a bad start to his coaching career. Anyone not rating him is delusional. However Match day coaching is still questionable on occasion.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Dew is undefeated so surely has to be 1st...

He also has never won a game.

 

[Pykie]

Amazing what the Brendan Bolton good bloke factor does to his rankings in here.

What is it, 2 years since a side of his has scored 100 points?

 

[Richo83]

All this thread demonstrates is how fickle people are.

Same type of thread last year and people were rating Beveridge second, Dimma in the bottom 3. This year Dimma top 2 and Bev mid range?

The truth is a good deal more complex (to the extent where a ranking probably isn’t possible due to the range of contextual factors that exist for each coach)

Goldfish memories and strong opinions not backed by empirical evidence.

I don't see where the problem lies. Hardwick's game plan wasn't working and the club didn't have the cattle to make it work. He changes the game plan, wins a flag and is thus rated higher.

This happens to politicians all the time. Suddenly they have a good idea and implement it well and it causes people to reconsider them.

If anything, such a change is a reaction to empirical evidence. I don't see the merit in holding fast to an opinion when the circumstances change.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

I don't see where the problem lies. Hardwick's game plan wasn't working and the club didn't have the cattle to make it work. He changes the game plan, wins a flag and is thus rated higher.

This happens to politicians all the time. Suddenly they have a good idea and implement it well and it causes people to reconsider them.

If anything, such a change is a reaction to empirical evidence. I don't see the merit in holding fast to an opinion when the circumstances change.

My meaning is more that people seem to base their opinion of coaches off the last 12 months, rather than taking into account all available empirical evidence. Their opinion isn’t really changing to accomodate new data, it’s just narrow and reactive to recent events (a feature which seems to underpin how bigfooty groupthink on this board operates on most topics).

It’s at least in part why Ross Lyon, who is clearly a great coach, is undervalued.

It’s why the OP who was arguing Chris Scott was rubbish in another thread only 12 months ago (!) has him as the best coach in the AFL in this one.

 

[Lsta062]

So far:

1. Alistair Clarkson
2. John Longmire
3. Chris Scott
4. John Worsfold
5. Ross Lyon

are my locks for the top 5. Next rung are Luke Beveridge, Damien Hardwick, Adam Simpson, Brad Scott, Don Pyke and Ken Hinkley in no particular order IMO. Most of the others don't have as good of a resume yet.

I put in Brad Scott over Leon Cameron because Cameron inherited a talented list and led them to two Preliminary Finals whereas Brad Scott wasn't in that position and led his side to two Preliminary Finals.

 

[Bazzar]

All this thread demonstrates is how fickle people are.

Same type of thread last year and people were rating Beveridge second, Dimma in the bottom 3. This year Dimma top 2 and Bev mid range?

The truth is a good deal more complex (to the extent where a ranking probably isn’t possible due to the range of contextual factors that exist for each coach)

Goldfish memories and strong opinions not backed by empirical evidence.

Where was Beveridge rated at the beginning of the 2016 season?

 

[gangsta deluxe]

Where was Beveridge rated at the beginning of the 2016 season?

Very highly and unjustifiably so at that point. Because people only based their opinion on 2015 (opinion of this type is always based on exceeding or meeting expectations). And everyone thought Simpson was a gun - nowhere to be seen here now.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

1. Clarkson (4 premierships, 62.3% win percentage)
2. Chris Scott (1 premiership, 70.7% win percentage)
3. John Longmire (1 premiership, 67.6% win percentage)
4. Luke Beveridge (1 premiership, 62% win percentage)
5. Damien Hardwick (1 premiership, 50.5% win percentage)
6. John Worsfold (1 premiership, 50.3% win percentage)
7. Don Pyke (69.4% win percentage)
8. Adam Simpson (61.7% win percentage)
9. Ross Lyon (59.2% win percentage)
10. Ken Hinkley (56% win percentage)
11. Leon Cameron (52.7% win percentage)
12. Simon Goodwin (52.2% win percentage)
13. Nathan Buckley (51.5% win percentage)
14. Brad Scott (50.8% win percentage)
15. Alan Richardson (37.5% win percentage)
16. Brendan Bolton (36.7% win percentage)
17. Chris Fagan (22.7% win percentage)
18. Stewart Dew (0% win percentage)

That was way too much effort for a shitpost, but if I was going to be accurate here I'd probably rotate the bottom half around a bit and the top half I'd say is pretty accurate.

I think the one thing I am absolutely certain about though is that Clarkson is by far the best coach of the 18. He is 1 premiership away from equalling every other coachs premiership cups won.

Norm Smith won 6

Edit: nvm, i read it wrong

 

[Lsta062]

I think Dimma gets too much credit for Richmond's premiership. He quite clearly has a strong relationship with the players and is very professional but for the first 6 years of his coaching career Richmond played a slow possession based style of footy that had the one of the poorer tackling/pressure sides in the comp. Which makes it extremely obvious the mastermind behind Richmond's new game plan was not Dimma.

Still one has to give Dimma plenty of credit for admitting he was wrong and being willing to accept new ideas.

In 2014-2016 we played a slow possession gamestyle. Prior to that including our 2013 finals campaign we played a faster gamestyle.

At the beginning of 2015, he wanted us to play a fast-paced and pressure based gamestyle but we just didn't have the personnel at the time. The evidence is in the fact that we used to play on quite a bit at the beginning of 2015 and he'd be very focused on defensive pressure from our forwards. Once we went 2-4 after 6 rounds though, he was criticised for his move to a faster gamestyle and we then reverted back to a slow possession-based gamestyle again.

I believe that he knew it wouldn't stack up in finals, but he had not much of a choice because our list was just not up to playing a gamestyle that is successful in finals intensity. I think he is a good coach, but just didn't have the list for success at the time.

 

[dean33]

1. Clarkson (4 premierships, 62.3% win percentage)
2. Chris Scott (1 premiership, 70.7% win percentage)
3. John Longmire (1 premiership, 67.6% win percentage)
4. Luke Beveridge (1 premiership, 62% win percentage)
5. Damien Hardwick (1 premiership, 50.5% win percentage)
6. John Worsfold (1 premiership, 50.3% win percentage)
7. Don Pyke (69.4% win percentage)
8. Adam Simpson (61.7% win percentage)
9. Ross Lyon (59.2% win percentage)
10. Ken Hinkley (56% win percentage)
11. Leon Cameron (52.7% win percentage)
12. Simon Goodwin (52.2% win percentage)
13. Nathan Buckley (51.5% win percentage)
14. Brad Scott (50.8% win percentage)
15. Alan Richardson (37.5% win percentage)
16. Brendan Bolton (36.7% win percentage)
17. Chris Fagan (22.7% win percentage)
18. Stewart Dew (0% win percentage)

That was way too much effort for a shitpost, but if I was going to be accurate here I'd probably rotate the bottom half around a bit and the top half I'd say is pretty accurate.

I think the one thing I am absolutely certain about though is that Clarkson is by far the best coach of the 18. He is 1 premiership away from equalling every other coachs premiership cups won.

Very good way of rating the coaches, glad I didn’t spend the time doing it but well done. Hard to argue with most of that list. Only criticism would be someone like Bolton lower than someone like Cameron however they have vastly different lists. Good job though as really besides win loss percentage and premierships the other stuff is guessing.

 

[STFU Donnie]

The crane?

It's a stupid bloody movie. They make a big point of saying (at the final competition) that blows to the head are banned and will see a point deducted. So how does Ralphie boy win? By kicking his opponent in the head!

Anyway, Mr Miyagi's life went downhill after he sold Arnold's to Al Delvecchio.

 

[Bald]

I genuinely don't think there would be many on this board qualified enough to judge the job of a local football coach, let alone a senior AFL coach.

 

[windyhill]

Players make coaches.

 

[NeutralFan]

Gregg Popovich

 

[Big Blood]

I genuinely don't think there would be many on this board qualified enough to judge the job of a local football coach, let alone a senior AFL coach.

Jesus H. If BF confined itself to people who know their topic.

For coaches it's clearly
1 Clarkson
2 Longmire, C. Scott
3 Bevo, Woosha
4 Lyon, Dimma

.
.
.
.
THe rest



Most of the rest have only coached for two or three seasons, except for Bucks, who is kind of in the same place Dimma was a year ago. Amazing what one good season could do for a rep.
But you can't rate coaches on 60 or 70 games.

Lyon had a great record, but he seems not to have grasped the rebuilding concept. And he did have a fabulous list at the Saints.

 

[Since 2001]

1. Alastair Clarkson
2. John Longmire
3. Damien Hardwick
4. Don Pyke
5. Luke Beveridge
6. John Worsfold
7. Adam Simpson
8. Ross Lyon
9. Ken Hinkley
10. Chris Scott
11. Leon Cameron
12. Simon Goodwin
13. Brad Scott
14. Nathan Buckley
15. Brendan Bolton
16. Alan Richardson
17. Chris Fagan
18. Stuart Dew