What unpopular AFL opinions do you have? (Part 1 - cont in Part 2)

[Hard Ball Get]

Many bigfooty posters underrate Naitanui and Rioli because they're obsessed with disposal numbers.

Same logic with Bontempelli. His 22 touches on Grand final day were at 100% but the knock is constantly that he doesn't get the footy enough. His impact on the game is not overstated as some suggest.

 

[Engimal v3]

McGovern played every game in 2017 and 80%+ game time in each one. In terms of overall minutes played in 2017 he was top 5 for the Eagles.




This is silly reasoning. Rance has been fapped over for the last 3-4 years and Richmond won jack s**t until 2017. If you judge Rance on being a key part of the 2017 side then you judge him on being a key part of the side that won 8 games in 2016 and choked in finals 3 years in a row before that. Richmond's turnaround in 2017 was due to Martin elevating his game to a new level, sorting out their footy dept, bringing in Nankervis/Caddy/Prestia, a few young players stepping up etc.

If you go back to 2016 you can find posts by people saying 'Rance is so good, without him Richmond lose by 15 goals instead of 10' which is really just the same point in a different context. Good player that he is, he isn't responsible for Richmond's turnaround. The original post a page back is spot on. He's pretty well regarded as the best key defender going around at the moment, but he isn't orders of magnitude above his peers nor is some once in a generation player reinventing the position. He's a victim of hype feeding hype. Cyril, NicNat, Danger... they all take their turn.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Richo83]

Same logic with Bontempelli. His 22 touches on Grand final day were at 100% but the knock is constantly that he doesn't get the footy enough. His impact on the game is not overstated as some suggest.

Totally agree. I don't really care about possessions, so what if a midfielder gets is only 25 times, are they damaging with them? Problem with relying upon disposals is there's some teams which play a very disposals heavy gamestyle. Looks great on the stat sheet that your prime onballer got it 35 times, but how many of them were sideways chips?

 

[Richo83]

McGovern played every game in 2017 and 80%+ game time in each one. In terms of overall minutes played in 2017 he was top 5 for the Eagles.

This is silly reasoning. Rance has been fapped over for the last 3-4 years and Richmond won jack s**t until 2017. If you judge Rance on being a key part of the 2017 side then you judge him on being a key part of the side that won 8 games in 2016 and choked in finals 3 years in a row before that. Richmond's turnaround in 2017 was due to Martin elevating his game to a new level, sorting out their footy dept, bringing in Nankervis/Caddy/Prestia, a few young players stepping up etc.

If you go back to 2016 you can find posts by people saying 'Rance is so good, without him Richmond lose by 15 goals instead of 10' which is really just the same point in a different context. Good player that he is, he isn't responsible for Richmond's turnaround. The original post a page back is spot on. He's pretty well regarded as the best key defender going around at the moment, but he isn't orders of magnitude above his peers nor is some once in a generation player reinventing the position. He's a victim of hype feeding hype. Cyril, NicNat, Danger... they all take their turn.

All true, but I do think Rance is the best KPD in the league, it's just that the way the game is being played now, KPDs (and KPPs in general) matter less than midfielders. Rance is basically Richmond's security guard, but he doesn't have to do that much if Richmond are on top in the midfield.

 

[Scotland]

Tom Mitchell board.

Unfortunately a lot of people aren't able to distinguish between a player getting junk possessions and a player only getting junk possessions. It's possible for 30 possessions to be made up of 10 hard won clearances, 10 creative disposals and 10 sideways handballs.

Even Gary Ablett Jr who averaged 30+ disposals a game for 6 years in a row gets plenty of junk possessions. He can have a BOG game with 15-20 brilliant touches and end up with 25 touches or 45.

 

[Richo83]

Tom Mitchell board.

Unfortunately a lot of people aren't able to distinguish between a player getting junk possessions and a player only getting junk possessions. It's possible for 30 possessions to be made up of 10 hard won clearances, 10 creative disposals and 10 sideways handballs.

Even Gary Ablett Jr who averaged 30+ disposals a game for 6 years in a row gets plenty of junk possessions. He can have a BOG game with 15-20 brilliant touches and end up with 25 touches or 45.

Sure, my point though is you have to consider quality as well as quantity. Clearing handballs are good but I'm not going to criticise, as some have to me, a midfielder because he only wins 23-25 disposals a game, or compare midfielders and use "total disposals" as a guide to tell who's better.

 

[Damon_3388]

I've had this discussion with a lot of people over the last few years.
I personally feel that Rance is overated, and in most other era's would just be considered a very good, A-grade, CHB, but not amongst the real great ones. In any other era I would take someone like Glen Jackovich well ahead of him any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

BUT - in the current game, he probably reaches that level. He is the perfect CHB for the current game. His deficiences in 1:1 defense (i just cant see him being able to hold any of the classically great FF's or CHF's) are not an issue and rarely exposed, and his ability to read the play, become a loose man and intercept, and then lead the counterattack are absolutely elite and at all-time great levels. In any other era, he would be exposed when he tried to do that too often - right now, the style of game is perfect for him and he is the perfect CHB for now. (The unanswerable question is how would he adapt if he was playing in a different era)

For all the talk about Rance's ability to intercept and attack, or claims that he's "overrated" or would be "exposed" in another era, he also led the league in total 1%ers (spoils, smothers, shepherds, knock-ons) in 2017, and was 2nd in 1%ers per game (behind Liam Jones, who only played 12 games to Rance's 25). It's the little things and the defensive stuff that makes him great, first and foremost. That he can be so effective defensively with technique and positioning, rather than the overt holding and scragging that was allowed in yesteryear, is a big credit to him as well.

 

[Gavin Excell]

For all the talk about Rance's ability to intercept and attack, or claims that he's "overrated" or would be "exposed" in another era, he also led the league in total 1%ers (spoils, smothers, shepherds, knock-ons) in 2017, and was 2nd in 1%ers per game (behind Liam Jones, who only played 12 games to Rance's 25). It's the little things and the defensive stuff that makes him great, first and foremost. That he can be so effective defensively with technique and positioning, rather than the overt holding and scragging that was allowed in yesteryear, is a big credit to him as well.

Yep great player

Bit churlish to suggest otherwise

 

[Scotland]

Sure, my point though is you have to consider quality as well as quantity. Clearing handballs are good but I'm not going to criticise, as some have to me, a midfielder because he only wins 23-25 disposals a game, or compare midfielders and use "total disposals" as a guide to tell who's better.

Most stats don't mean much any more. The leading marker in the comp in 2017 was Sam Docherty. It's a different game to 20 years ago.

As someone who watched Matt Priddis' whole career I am happy to see the stat sheet read 5 kicks 20 handballs. He was a horrible kick and played to the strengths he had. You don't want to see Priddis getting Gaff stats because he's slow by foot and a poor kick. And even if he had 30 handballs in a game it didn't mean all 30 of them were useful or that it was is best game because he had the most he's ever had. He had good games with 20-something touches and he had poor games with 30+.

 

[Scotland]

For all the talk about Rance's ability to intercept and attack, or claims that he's "overrated" or would be "exposed" in another era, he also led the league in total 1%ers (spoils, smothers, shepherds, knock-ons) in 2017, and was 2nd in 1%ers per game (behind Liam Jones, who only played 12 games to Rance's 25). It's the little things and the defensive stuff that makes him great, first and foremost. That he can be so effective defensively with technique and positioning, rather than the overt holding and scragging that was allowed in yesteryear, is a big credit to him as well.

A frustrating aspect of Rance (and most players who reach peak hype) is that the goalposts are moved for them. Leading the comp in 1%ers is great, but when someone else does it nobody brings it up. Is it important or isn't it? Daniel Talia for example is pigeonholed as a stopper but his 2016 stats were what very comparable to Rance 2017 who was AA captain and apparently some game reinventing player. FFS, cool your jets people. When Rance is leading marks from opposition kicks or rebound 50s or whatever then that becomes the important metric. Etc.

As far as "ability to intercept and attack" goes in 2017 McGovern got more of the ball, had more kicks, took more marks, took more contested marks, took more intercept marks, and won the most contests in the comp. McGovern is a good footballer and had a good season. Not as good as Rance according to most people which is fine but absolutely nothing game changing or revolutionary.

Yep great player

Bit churlish to suggest otherwise

Has anyone suggested otherwise? Rance is a great player but he's not Polly Farmer.

 

[Bicco]

AFLW is amazingly boring. Its the equivalent skill level of C grade amateurs and I dont watch that either.

 

[enobrien]

A frustrating aspect of Rance (and most players who reach peak hype) is that the goalposts are moved for them. Leading the comp in 1%ers is great, but when someone else does it nobody brings it up. Is it important or isn't it? Daniel Talia for example is pigeonholed as a stopper but his 2016 stats were what very comparable to Rance 2017 who was AA captain and apparently some game reinventing player. FFS, cool your jets people. When Rance is leading marks from opposition kicks or rebound 50s or whatever then that becomes the important metric. Etc.

As far as "ability to intercept and attack" goes in 2017 McGovern got more of the ball, had more kicks, took more marks, took more contested marks, took more intercept marks, and won the most contests in the comp. McGovern is a good footballer and had a good season. Not as good as Rance according to most people which is fine but absolutely nothing game changing or revolutionary.



Has anyone suggested otherwise? Rance is a great player but he's not Polly Farmer.

Both great players, both do the same things just about as well as the other

Anyone can nit pick stats... Rance had more handballs, rebound 50s (which is a fair indicator of "ability to intercept and attack) and tackles

 

[Corkintheocean]

For all the talk about Rance's ability to intercept and attack, or claims that he's "overrated" or would be "exposed" in another era, he also led the league in total 1%ers (spoils, smothers, shepherds, knock-ons) in 2017, and was 2nd in 1%ers per game (behind Liam Jones, who only played 12 games to Rance's 25). It's the little things and the defensive stuff that makes him great, first and foremost. That he can be so effective defensively with technique and positioning, rather than the overt holding and scragging that was allowed in yesteryear, is a big credit to him as well.

Great point. It's these nuanced aspects of his game that the stone throwers can't quite comprehend when calculating his position in the game.

 

[Sauras]

AFLW is amazingly boring. Its the equivalent skill level of C grade amateurs and I dont watch that either.

Being generous to the girls

 

[Bicco]

Being generous to the girls

I fully expect the standard to get better with money/time. But they've pulled girls from absolute nothing comps and put them on television.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Alex Rance is both very good and very overrated.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Is Ricky Nixon's view meant to enhance your argument?

 

[Xtreme]

AFLW is amazingly boring. Its the equivalent skill level of C grade amateurs and I dont watch that either.

Just a few more days and the real footy is back!!

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Bennys list of criminally overrated AFL players

1. Dustin Martin
2. Nat Fyfe
3. Josh Kelly
4. Mark Blicavs
5. Isaac Smith
6. Tom Lynch GC
7. Clayton Oliver
8. Cyril Rioli
9. Cale Hooker
10. Michael Hurley
11. Josh Gibson (troll intermission for lols)
12. J. Riewoldt
13. Josh Caddy
14. Damien Hardwick
15. Simon Goodwin
16. Patrick Cripps
17. Josh Kennedy (WC)
18. Marcus Bontempelli
19. Nathan Jones
20. Taylor Walker
21. Dayne Zorko
22. Jeremy Cameron
23. Steele Sidebottom
24. Dayne Beams
25. ?

Still salty about last years brownlow I see

 

[Xtreme]

Still salty about last years brownlow I see

The two most overrated players over the last decade are Chris Judd and Dangerfield!

 

[Scotland]

The two most overrated players over the last decade are Chris Judd and Dangerfield!

They're also two of the best, so I doubt it bothers them.

 

[bh90210fan]

The two most overrated players over the last decade are Chris Judd and Dangerfield!

They are both players who are unstoppable most games they play. Same as GAJ, Dusty and Fyfe. They are freaks and players like them make you love footy more.

 

[Dav]

It's more viable to put a team in an area with high population and low footy interest (NSW, QLD, overseas) than an area with low population and high footy interest (NT, Tasmania) and there shouldn't be a Tasmanian or Darwin team until the population justifies it. A club should be aiming for at the very least 20,000 attendance on a week to week basis within 10 years of forming, and there's no guarantee either Darwin or Tasmania could deliver that.

 

[madmug]

It's more viable to put a team in an area with high population and low footy interest (NSW, QLD, overseas) than an area with low population and high footy interest (NT, Tasmania) and there shouldn't be a Tasmanian or Darwin team until the population justifies it. A club should be aiming for at the very least 20,000 attendance on a week to week basis within 10 years of forming, and there's no guarantee either Darwin or Tasmania could deliver that.

Where does that leave GC?

 

[smasha]

Rance has done the job on Buddy who I rate every bit as good as Carey.