Should the GF be played at a Neutral venue?

[Great8]

Tradition of when it was a Vic suburban league. Now it is a national competition.

National competition by name only to appease the interstate sides and broadcasters.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Soccer, Rugby, Rugby League, Cricket, American Football, Baseball, Basketball all had a place they started. Does that make them hostage to that place ?

The rant on History should be replaced with the politics of football in Melbourne & the Vic economic benefit from it. That makes it much more simple & logical to understand

Didnt say it should

Again, was refuting the mcg is only a vfl legacy

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I appreciate your well thought out response and acknowledge it is no doubt more difficult when considering all that. Still it also doesn't seem to be a significant issue to pack out some prelim finals on short notice (does depend on the clubs involved) including the corp sections so I believe it could be done. With a smaller capacity ground comes less sales required and would it be such a terrible thing to give greater access to the genuine members who are prepared to travel, eat large expenses to support their club? Most of the AFL money comes from TV deals anyway. In any case logistically I accept your point is a fair one though if there's will to achieve it I've got no doubt it could be overcome sometimes it just takes some thinking outside the box by creative marketing departments to create value for all parties in a circumstance like this, it's what these people are employed to do afterall.

I will ask you this point blank as you've raised some fair points about why it shouldn't or more so why it cant be moved but I haven't seen you address whether you feel it's an advantage for an MCG tenant to play the GF on their home ground when another side has to travel from out of state? Surely giving one side an edge on the biggest day of the year is unethical for a professional competition?

Firstly finals are a lot cheaper than the gf (youre talking hundreds vs thousands). It changes the approval levels and the potential companies buying in.

On your last, if you want to be "fair" the wembley option is best, but we cant financially justify it in australia. That means either accepting a compromise (ie only perth and mcg) or sacrificing revenue (which the afl will never do)

Problem for a "fair" gf is it needs to work at metricon and kat park, and with their respective capacities a gf is frankly unviable

I like the notion, but honestly am yet to see a way it can be managed properly. Reality is main proposal here is sa or wa pay money to buy it, and that sets a worrying precident for me

 

[flamingEMBERS]

im in the corporate world, and ive received and purchased these packages in the past.

say a company will be spending $10k+ on its GF entertainment arrangements, and thats pretty conservative (just a couple of staff and a couple of clients). first you need to get internal approval from senior management on making the purchase, but they want to know which clients you plan to take. without knowing which clients you're taking (because you dont know which city is hosting), you cant get approval outside an indicative.

The bigger hurdle is the clients. Normally you try to lock attendees weeks (if not months in advance). I can tell you from personal experience there is nothing worse than doing a ring around days before an event to fill a spot. Clients know they are a last minute choice, so it doesnt get the kudos you normally hope for. harder however is clients by this time often have plans of their own, so you get a tonne of "thanks. but im busy that day". esp on gf day, where people often have bbq's and parties to go to

finally you have the next kicker, corporate ethics rules. most major companies now have strict rules about receiving gifts and entertainment. anything above a certain value needs management approval (sometimes very senior) to ensure no conflict.

so we have six days to

- get approval to buy the tickets
- buy the tickets
- find a client happy to go with you
- client gets internal approval to actually attend

six days is way too short to get this done. most companies will just move their spend to the tennis, GP, or spring carnival

By the sounds of it, it would be easier for you if there were less corporate tickets available to the GF so you don't need to worry about this. Lets move the game and take this issue away from you.

 

[Great8]

Ok, thanks. Good to know you're an upfront dickhead

I’m South Australian but I’m only stating the truth. Your club applied to join the VFL and played under the VFL banner for a few years. It was a change in name only. Have you ever wondered why the HQ is based in Melbourne, why the AFL brought a Melbourne stadium, why we still have the Brownlow, Coleman etc, etc. There was never some new magical comp created called the AFL like many seem to believe. Was simply the VFL rebadged

 

[madmug]

Didnt say it should

Again, was refuting the mcg is only a vfl legacy

"where the game started is something you don't just fob off"

So how else, apart from what it says, am I supposed to interprete this from you then?

No one is 'fobbing' the MCG off. Except to say the GF should look to become more national than just VFL these days.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

By the sounds of it, it would be easier for you if there were less corporate tickets available to the GF so you don't need to worry about this. Lets move the game and take this issue away from you.

Jokes aside, I’m in a gig now where I can’t accept anything now, so no skin off my nose

Reality is it takes weeks to approve and arrange this stuff, pretending otherwise is ignorant

 

[Ned_Flanders]

"where the game started is something you don't just fob off"

So how else, apart from what it says, am I supposed to interprete this from you then?

No one is 'fobbing' the MCG off. Except to say the GF should look to become more national than just VFL these days.

Read the op, he was saying it’s at the g because of vfl legacy

That’s wrong

Aussie rules and Aussie rules at the g pre dates the vfl

 

[Holy Rioli]

I still think Eagles would've won the 91 GF if it was at the MCG.

Also I hate the word "Stadia"

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You couldn't even beat Hawthorn in Perth a few weeks earlier...

 

[smasha]

I voted yes and the MCG.

 

[Cuzz09]

You couldn't even beat Hawthorn in Perth a few weeks earlier...

We wouldve won if it was at the G.

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[Holy Rioli]

We wouldve won if it was at the G.

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Nope, you were the better side easily in the first half of the season no doubt about it. We were easily the better team later in the year. Finished the year 13-1 in our last 14 matches with the only loss against you guys late in the season on the back of a strong umpiring performance in the second quarter on your home deck.

FFS you couldn't even beat Fitzroy in the last H&A game that year. The 9 goal loss (flattering since it was about 40 scoring shots to 20 if I remember correctly) WCE suffered in that Grand Final was a reflection of how much Hawthorn had improved throughout the season versus how much West Coast had stagnated.

What made that loss even more one-sided is I think you guys kicked the first 3 or 4 goals of the game as well and still lost by that much.

 

[Cuzz09]

Nope, you were the better side easily in the first half of the season no doubt about it. We were easily the better team later in the year. Finished the year 13-1 in our last 14 matches with the only loss against you guys late in the season on the back of a strong umpiring performance in the second quarter on your home deck.

FFS you couldn't even beat Fitzroy in the last H&A game that year. The 9 goal loss (flattering since it was about 40 scoring shots to 20 if I remember correctly) WCE suffered in that Grand Final was a reflection of how much Hawthorn had improved throughout the season versus how much West Coast had stagnated.

What made that loss even more one-sided is I think you guys kicked the first 3 or 4 goals of the game as well and still lost by that much.

Good points. Hawks win at G.

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[flamingEMBERS]

Sick cheers AFL. Complete misread of the situation. Why was there even a need to do this 20 years out, so many things could have changed in that time. Utter disgrace.

 

[The_Wookie]

Sick cheers AFL. Complete misread of the situation. Why was there even a need to do this 20 years out, so many things could have changed in that time. Utter disgrace.

If you thought it was going to go any other way, then id say you misread the situation. AFL asking for hundreds of millions for Etihad, the Southern stand in need of renovation work before 2030 and facilities needed for womens footy in Victoria, and it was always going to go this way - AFL have to allow major events at Etihad - so no repeat of the last World Cup application - and a 20 year extension of the grand final contract.

 

[Our Game]

Also 700,000 + AFL/MCC members plus the millions of fans in Melbourne/Victoria is a lot of voters!

 

[precarious]

National competition by name only to appease the interstate sides and broadcasters.

This is tangential to the thread topic but in response to part of your comment. I increasingly wonder if the broadcasters really do want a national comp. I get the impression they would prefer state leagues (AF where it is strong and RL where it is strong).

To me at least, Fox Footy gives off the vibe that it has very few viewers outside of Victoria and wants even fewer. Commentators talk to the Vic audience and past the non-Vic audience.

The same seems even more true of 7, with the games it produces only occasionally located outside Melbourne. Compared with 10 in the past, it appears to do very little for the game in Sydney (don't know about Brisbane).

I know that what the networks do is contractual. It is not a criticism of them. Just an observation and my impression. It makes me wonder if AFL and the networks are in conflict over the AFL's expansion attempt or perhaps even if AFL is now subtly backing away from expansion.

BTW I do not consider myself anti-Vic (was born in Melbourne - it is my favorite city).

 

[Ned_Flanders]

This is tangential to the thread topic but in response to part of your comment. I increasingly wonder if the broadcasters really do want a national comp. I get the impression they would prefer state leagues (AF where it is strong and RL where it is strong).

To me at least, Fox Footy gives off the vibe that it has very few viewers outside of Victoria and wants even fewer. Commentators talk to the Vic audience and past the non-Vic audience.

The same seems even more true of 7, with the games it produces only occasionally located outside Melbourne. Compared with 10 in the past, it appears to do very little for the game in Sydney (don't know about Brisbane).

I know that what the networks do is contractual. It is not a criticism of them. Just an observation and my impression. It makes me wonder if AFL and the networks are in conflict over the AFL's expansion attempt or perhaps even if AFL is now subtly backing away from expansion.

BTW I do not consider myself anti-Vic (was born in Melbourne - it is my favorite city).

Just imo, i think that has more to do with dickheads now being footy commentators

Commentators used to be footy experts, now few watch all games, fewer research whats happening in state footy.

The reason they only talk vic is because they see those games live the most, and the people they talk footy with are the same.

You used to see this during the olympics when sandy roberts, drew morphett, peter landy, and bruce would commentate events. They heavily researched and were good (esp bruce). Now, its embarrassing how little they know

 

[flamingEMBERS]

If you thought it was going to go any other way, then id say you misread the situation. AFL asking for hundreds of millions for Etihad, the Southern stand in need of renovation work before 2030 and facilities needed for womens footy in Victoria, and it was always going to go this way - AFL have to allow major events at Etihad - so no repeat of the last World Cup application - and a 20 year extension of the grand final contract.

AFL asks for 1.however much billion for wa clubs from the government. What’s the difference? Asks for SA government to upgrade. Asks governments in QLD and NSW for new stadiums.

It’s a complete mis read of the fans outside of Victoria. Am I actually surprised this happened, no. Am I bitterly disappointed, of course.

So much can change in 20 years time. Growing the game is best by bringing the event to fans and potential fans.

 

[The_Wookie]

AFL asks for 1.however much billion for wa clubs from the government. What’s the difference? Asks for SA government to upgrade. Asks governments in QLD and NSW for new stadiums.

however much billion? you think WA has that money to throw around? I think theyd be crucified after spending 1.2 billion on a stadium and already guaranteeing 10m a year to the WAFC

 

[Thetrader15]

Sick cheers AFL. Complete misread of the situation. Why was there even a need to do this 20 years out, so many things could have changed in that time. Utter disgrace.

It's actually very poor long term planning. How do they what changes will occur in the next 30 years.
Who are their consumers and where does the consumer of 20 years from now want the game played;
What other stadiums will be built in Aus in this time;
They have no flexibility now with their biggest pawn should tv broadcasters demand it goes somewhere else...how does that limit their deals with tv/internet rights.

By doing this they defaulted themselves into propping up 4 or 5 non-profitable Vic clubs for the next 30 years.

A very poor, stategic move meaning we will get more of the same.

What if a rich o/s billionaire decides to build a 200,000 capacity indoor stadium in 15 years for another Olympics bid or Man United purchase Syd Olympic and do the same.
Even better they offer to buy the Swans for $500m provided the g/f is olayed at this new stadium every 4 years

Anything can happen in 50 years!...except 1 thing now

 

[The_Wookie]

It's actually very poor long term planning. How do they what changes will occur in the next 30 years.
Who are their consumers and where does the consumer of 20 years from now want the game played;

ABS forecasts have the population of Victoria overtaking NSW in that time.

What other stadiums will be built in Aus in this time;

Doesnt really matter, since the MCC appears to be constantly upgrading the stadium to meet demand and modernisation needs anyway.

They have no flexibility now with their biggest pawn should tv broadcasters demand it goes somewhere else...how does that limit their deals with tv/internet rights.

TV broadcasters arent going to demand it goes somewhere else. Victoria is the largest AFL tv market, and is predicted to be for many years to come.

By doing this they defaulted themselves into propping up 4 or 5 non-profitable Vic clubs for the next 30 years.

No they havent.

What if a rich o/s billionaire decides to build a 200,000 capacity indoor stadium in 15 years for another Olympics bid or Man United purchase Syd Olympic and do the same.

Then its going to be a rectangular stadium, purpose built for soccer isnt it. And no one is building a 200,000 capacity stadium for the Olympics or anything else. Theres literally no justification for it, not now, not in the future. Would be a massive white elephant.

Even better they offer to buy the Swans for $500m provided the g/f is olayed at this new stadium every 4 years

Not only is 500m a ridiculous price, but the AFL shows no signs of wanting clubs to be privately owned in the foreseeable future.

 

[Thetrader15]

ABS forecasts have the population of Victoria overtaking NSW in that time.



Doesnt really matter, since the MCC appears to be constantly upgrading the stadium to meet demand and modernisation needs anyway.



TV broadcasters arent going to demand it goes somewhere else. Victoria is the largest AFL tv market, and is predicted to be for many years to come.



No they havent.



Then its going to be a rectangular stadium, purpose built for soccer isnt it. And no one is building a 200,000 capacity stadium for the Olympics or anything else. Theres literally no justification for it, not now, not in the future. Would be a massive white elephant.



Not only is 500m a ridiculous price, but the AFL shows no signs of wanting clubs to be privately owned in the foreseeable future.

The question is ...is 50 years 'foreseeable'...I'll argue no, as someone with asset planning experience.

Would you be happy with the Olympics always being held in Greece if there was a big stadium?

 

[The_Wookie]

The question is ...is 50 years 'foreseeable'...I'll argue no, as someone with asset planning experience.

Would you be happy with the Olympics always being held in Greece if there was a big stadium?

Actually, given the rip offs currently applied by the IOC, I probably would.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Even if you're in the "GF should never leave Melbourne camp", why would you sell our (our being the AFL's) biggest asset, 20 years in advance? There could have been a bidding war and then the AFL could have got more and a better deal for the game itself.

Other than being a disgraceful display of Victorian Patriotism and FU's to the integrity of the sport. The money made off selling the AFL's showpiece is all being invested into Victorian juniors and Victorian clubs. How about that money get's redistributed around to the other states? It's a double whammy.