Roast Stevic and co - all anti-Swans conspiracies within

[Tedeski]

We live in a mostly subjective world, and we often have different interpretations of the same set of events, such that our reality is shaped by our perception of things. I'm comfortable with whichever interpretation people choose to adopt (no-one can force you to believe anything). The challenge is to find the best interpretation to fit a given set of events, given the available facts. To me, the idea that there is a grand umpiring conspiracy, apart from not being very plausible (i.e. is the AFL really capable of i) carrying out such manipulation and ii) covering it up??), creates a victim mentality among fans which I don't see as being very positive for the club.

It, the GF, was umpired to the emotion of the day.
Not deliberate cheating IMO, but they & one in particular, got sucked in by the good story that was the Bulldogs & it dramatically changed their interpretation of what they saw.
For example, what made the same umpires pay a below the knee sllding free throughout the year but had them miss 3 obvious ones in a GF when they were supposedly the best AFL umpires on earth in 2016.
What made them GUESS that Clay Smith was taken around the neck in the third when he just fell to the ground without taking the ball right after another GUESS that Rampe threw the ball to McVeigh.
What about the clear holding of Rampe being pulled by the arm & to the ground when he had no ball?
I say they chose to close their eyes on our frees because it didn't feel right to pay them for the particular emotion they were caught up in on the day.
Not cheating but an momentum killing as as they all say, momentum is everything in football.
We had that taken from us all day.

 

[MickyG]

It, the GF, was umpired to the emotion of the day.
Not deliberate cheating IMO, but they & one in particular, got sucked in by the good story that was the Bulldogs & it dramatically changed their interpretation of what they saw.
For example, what made the same umpires pay a below the knee sllding free throughout the year but had them miss 3 obvious ones in a GF when they were supposedly the best AFL umpires on earth in 2016.
What made them GUESS that Clay Smith was taken around the neck in the third when he just fell to the ground without taking the ball right after another GUESS that Rampe threw the ball to McVeigh.
What about the clear holding of Rampe being pulled by the arm & to the ground when he had no ball?
I say they chose to close their eyes on our frees because it didn't feel right to pay them for the particular emotion they were caught up in on the day.
Not cheating but an momentum killing as as they all say, momentum is everything in football.
We had that taken from us all day.

You're arguing unconscious bias? I can't accept that because one team gets 15 free kicks in 2 1/2 quarters while the other team gets 1. That's too much bias. I'm not a fan of conspiracies, unfortunately it's all I've got.

For conspiracy fans there's also the final against the Hawks and the Prelim against the Giants where the Dogs got the rub of the green as well.

 

[Banyo Bloods]

The premiership cup was on the footy show from memory with only Bulldogs streamers on both handles and then left that way for other photography it was only sort of last minute did they make it red and white on one side. All could have been an innocent thing but after the CEO says it was the greatest sporting moment of his life and the umpiring it's hard not to let the tin foil hat brigade to influence you in their assessment.

 

[sataris]

Again, no one is saying the AFL is incorruptible. We are just saying they are also just not competent enough to pull of the kind of corruption that is being insinuated in this thread without it becoming a well known fact (just as every example of AFL corruption mentioned in this thread leaked out to the public).

FIFA was well known for being incorruptible, until they were, and that was decades long.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Bias isn't just a perception it is fact. You can have deviations in one game or several but the test of a hypothesis is whether the swans deviate from the mean frees against over time. I once checked our frees against over the last 20 years. Many years we were on top. Most we were in top 4. We were the most penalised side. That occurs despite our list being turned over every 7 years or so. Now you might be able to raise an argument that our contested style of play started with Roos and continued with Longmire is the reason. Many teams now follow that style though. I do t buy that theory. Statistics talk. What they tell me is there is undoubted bias.

Human nature is a funny thing. We are influenced on conscious and subconscious levels in all ways. The media is biased, the administration is biased ('you can't have everyone'), some opposition club presidents are obsessed with destroying us (hi eddie), supporters who believe the shite peddled about us being 'privileged' All these public intrusions influence people and umpires are people. That is fact. It won't be acknowledged in Mexico because that's where it emanates abd that lot are all brainwashed. But it most definately exists.

That unfortunately is our lot in life as a swans supporter. To hope we can rise above the bias and still win. And when we do I'll hurl obscenities at the TV - the umpires, the media and the administration because revenge is sweet.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

If you want further evidence of bias look no further than our draw. We have played 5 teams in the top eight in the first 6 weeks of the draw. By week 8 we will have played 6. There are only seven excluding ourselves. How many teams are there in the competition again?? Even allowing for the fact that top teams double up on other top teams by quirk of the draw it is highly improbable that our draw is explicable by random chance. On probabilities alone impossible. Richmond the premiers have faced 2 top eight sides in the same time. We have to play top eight at some point though so you're peddling an ill fated conspiracy theory Puke. What benefit would or could flow from a purposeful stacked draw? Answer: look no further than our last year results : 0-6. We have therefore recently shown vulnerability early. So by stacking a draw to have better opposition in the first eight weeks the biased administrators hope to derail our year. So then the 'improbable' draw stacking conveniently attacks a perceived weakness.

I'm no fool and I know bias and cheating when I see it and each time I try to dissuade myself that I'm foolishly going a conspiracy theory route I hear those words again

'You can't have everyone'

We can't it seems openly negotiate within the rules to secure contracted services of players on open market according to the rules in place FOR ALL. And the punishment for contracting Buddy contrary to what AFL administration wanted but not the rules was a trading ban. Say no more really. Point proven. Bias.

 

[Kirkswan]

Bias isn't just a perception it is fact. You can have deviations in one game or several but the test of a hypothesis is whether the swans deviate from the mean frees against over time. I once checked our frees against over the last 20 years. Many years we were on top. Most we were in top 4. We were the most penalised side. That occurs despite our list being turned over every 7 years or so. Now you might be able to raise an argument that our contested style of play started with Roos and continued with Longmire is the reason. Many teams now follow that style though. I do t buy that theory. Statistics talk. What they tell me is there is undoubted bias.

Human nature is a funny thing. We are influenced on conscious and subconscious levels in all ways. The media is biased, the administration is biased ('you can't have everyone'), some opposition club presidents are obsessed with destroying us (hi eddie), supporters who believe the shite peddled about us being 'privileged' All these public intrusions influence people and umpires are people. That is fact. It won't be acknowledged in Mexico because that's where it emanates abd that lot are all brainwashed. But it most definately exists.

That unfortunately is our lot in life as a swans supporter. To hope we can rise above the bias and still win. And when we do I'll hurl obscenities at the TV - the umpires, the media and the administration because revenge is sweet.

Surely there is some fluctuation over the years as not only team members change but so do umpires.

It's very hard to credit an ongoing long term unconscious bias...

 

[Kirkswan]

If you want further evidence of bias look no further than our draw. We have played 5 teams in the top eight in the first 6 weeks of the draw. By week 8 we will have played 6. There are only seven excluding ourselves. How many teams are there in the competition again?? Even allowing for the fact that top teams double up on other top teams by quirk of the draw it is highly improbable that our draw is explicable by random chance. On probabilities alone impossible. Richmond the premiers have faced 2 top eight sides in the same time. We have to play top eight at some point though so you're peddling an ill fated conspiracy theory Puke. What benefit would or could flow from a purposeful stacked draw? Answer: look no further than our last year results : 0-6. We have therefore recently shown vulnerability early. So by stacking a draw to have better opposition in the first eight weeks the biased administrators hope to derail our year. So then the 'improbable' draw stacking conveniently attacks a perceived weakness.

I'm no fool and I know bias and cheating when I see it and each time I try to dissuade myself that I'm foolishly going a conspiracy theory route I hear those words again

'You can't have everyone'

We can't it seems openly negotiate within the rules to secure contracted services of players on open market according to the rules in place FOR ALL. And the punishment for contracting Buddy contrary to what AFL administration wanted but not the rules was a trading ban. Say no more really. Point proven. Bias.

Everyone had a very strange draw this year due to Metricon Stadium being unavailable due to Commonwealth Games. The Suns played 2 games in a row in WA.

Consider a moment that doing up the draw each year means considering the availability of of 18 stadiums, one of which was not available for the first 10 weeks of this season.

The draw itself would be almost impossible to fix in any year, let alone a year like 2018 imo....

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Surely there is some fluctuation over the years as not only team members change but so do umpires.

It's very hard to credit an ongoing long term unconscious bias...

Omg I thought I was the only one getting on here at 5 am in the morning! lol

Yes there were some years where we were outside the top 4. But there are 18 teams so that all things being equal we should gravitate to the mean - 9th. We don't.

I did the analysis a few years ago and the purpose was to prove to myself that my thinking of bias was ill conceived. Instead it proved to me on hypothesis testing principles that there IS bias.

I'll re do the analysis and document it.

The point is that when a result happens over time that significantly deviates you from accepted mean- which is 9th it proves positively that some factor has influenced the deviation. Now style of play can be a factor, but where we turn over our lists regularly and styles of play also change it is a very hard sell to say the deviation arises by virtue of random chance.

 

[Kirkswan]

Omg I thought I was the only one getting on here at 5 am in the morning! lol

Yes there were some years where we were outside the top 4. But there are 18 teams so that all things being equal we should gravitate to the mean - 9th. We don't.

I did the analysis a few years ago and the purpose was to prove to myself that my thinking of bias was ill conceived. Instead it proved to me on hypothesis testing principles that there IS bias.

I'll re do the analysis and document it.

The point is that when a result happens over time that significantly deviates you from accepted mean- which is 9th it proves positively that some factor has influenced the deviation. Now style of play can be a factor, but where we turn over our lists regularly and styles of play also change it is a very hard sell to say the deviation arises by virtue of random chance.

Yes, I understand what your saying and how you achieved your outcome.

My question is, have you checked all teams and over how long? Are we the only team that does not gravitate to 9th, or is it a common theme? If it is, what do those teams have in common?

I'm not questioning your hypothesis, I'm suggesting that your field of reference may be too small...

Yes, and I'm another idiot on here at 5am... Lol!

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Surely there is some fluctuation over the years as not only team members change but so do umpires.

It's very hard to credit an ongoing long term unconscious bias...

Kirkswan yes it persists for a long time which supports that it is unconscious because as you say personnel including umpires change. But if umpires are all subject of the same brainwashing consistently then same outcome will occur.

We are the evil northerners who are privileged and get the AFL helping hand to complete disadvantage of all other clubs and it's ruining the game. We are also considered champagne sipping elitests. That is the message.

 

[Kirkswan]

Kirkswan yes it persists for a long time which supports that it is unconscious because as you say personnel including umpires change. But if umpires are all subject of the same brainwashing consistently then same outcome will occur.

We are the evil northerners who are privileged and get the AFL helping hand to complete disadvantage of all other clubs and it's ruining the game. We are also considered champagne sipping elitests. That is the message.

I have never heard anything about us being the evil northerners, or chardonnay swilling elitists except for here on big footy. I'd really like to see the stats and see if there are other conclusions that may be drawn. For a long time we were considered the AFLs love child due to the advantages given while they tried to keep us afloat. It seems to be a very long way from there to the unconscious bias you are suggesting. I'm not dismissing it out of hand, I'd just like to see the stats myself...

 

[TheMase]

It’s a FIXture not a draw.

It’s not random.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

I have never heard anything about us being the evil northerners, or chardonnay swilling elitists except for here on big footy.

You have been very lucky then Kirksy.

Have copped this numerous times. Maybe it's a SA thing?

One of my pet hates is people assuming because you go for Sydney then you are from Sydney & fit a generalised cliche.

E.g. I know a lovely Collingwood supporter who isn't from Collingwood, has no connection to Collingwood, has all her teeth, isn't on the dole, is hard working, is not feral & is a valued friend.

 

[scaryness]

"AFL favourites" Western Bulldogs currently losing free kicks 16-4 in the 2nd quarter. What did they do to piss the AFL off?

 

[Tedeski]

"AFL favourites" Western Bulldogs currently losing free kicks 16-4 in the 2nd quarter. What did they do to piss the AFL off?

Order has been restored to aid their comeback.
Down now 18 frees to 13 in the third. That's a change of 2 against & 9 for.
Big half time speech by Bevo has revved up the umps for the p'ship quarter.

 

[scaryness]

What did the Suns do to piss the AFL off?

 

[GotTheGoodes]

What did the Suns do to piss the AFL off?

Hahaha.

 

[sataris]

Does s**t like that Mcveigh touched goal happen to other teams?

 

[Skeparovic]

Hmmm rigged score reviews? No replays shown for how long then at SCG? Clear Mcveigh touched it yet conveniently vision gets lost until after bounce. Watch any questionable Swans goals get reviewed 20 times in slow mow before the bounce happens.

 

[The King!]

Another swans boning tonight

 

[SilentHunter_]

Robbed us of 4 points

 

[The King!]

Soft frees to north, and missed to us, but shouldn’t of mattered, we were s**t

 

[Banyo Bloods]

I scored it 22 North 15 Swans though I may have missed one here or there. Will review in detail mid week but not pretty.

 

[grimlock]

I scored it 22 North 15 Swans though I may have missed one here or there. Will review in detail mid week but not pretty.

Will be interested in your tally. From my live observations it was clear that one umpire gave a lot of free kicks to North (not saying they weren't there, it was just that most of the time they had a FK, it seemed to be this particular umpy)